A team of researchers is going down the theoretical rabbit hole with a test to find out if our universe is nothing more than a computer program.
Posted 10.11.2012 at 1:26 pm
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Living In The Lattice
Beane et al via arXiv
We don’t want to alarm you, but there’s a distinct possibility that our universe is nothing more than a huge computer simulation, that we’re all living in The Matrix, and none of this is real. But while stopping short of full-on human-machine warfare, a team of interested researchers at the University of Bonn is trying to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes by performing a measurement that should tell us if we’re stuck in a computer simulation.
This notion is based on quantum chromodynamics, which is the idea that describes how the strong nuclear force binds quarks and gluons together into protons and neutrons--and thus binds everything else together. We’re talking about very fundamental physics here, the process by which elementary particles form larger particles which form larger particles which form life, the universe, and everything.
Researchers have long sought to model quantum chromodynamics on supercomputers, but the problem is that these kinds of simulations take place at such a small scale and are so dazzlingly complicated that even the biggest supercomputers can only simulate an extremely small swath of our infinitely massive universe--something just a few femtometers across (a femtometer is one million nanometers, which is still really, really small).
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Technology, Clay Dillow, cosmology, cosmology simulations, physics, simulations, Space, supercomputers, the matrixSilas Beane and some colleagues at the University of Bonn think they’ve come up with a way to measure the universe in such a way that we can know if we’re living in a giant sim. This is all based on a value known as the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin cut off, or GZK. In the world of theoretical physics, things can more or less be limitless, but in computers things have to have limits. This is one of the problems with these kinds of simulations; the laws of physics have to be placed in a constrained, 3-D space--a lattice--that is limited by the nature of the computer sim.
Beane and his colleagues are exploring whether or not these lattices alter the physical processes we have observed in the universe. Specifically, they are looking at high energy processes, which get smaller and smaller the more energetic they become. Beane and company have found that these 3-D lattices impose a limit on the amount of energy these processes can have, because nothing occurring within the sim can be smaller than the lattice itself. So, if we are living inside of a computer program, there should be a fundamental limit within the spectrum of high energy particles, like cosmic ray particles.
And there is. That’s the GZK cut off. It’s well-studied and well-defined, and occurs because over time and distance cosmic ray particles interact with the cosmic microwave background and lose energy. So, if Beane and his friends are correct, we can measure cosmic ray particles--using existing technology--to see if they behave in the way theoretical physics says they should, or if they behave as we might expect them to in a computer simulation. If we found that the cosmic waves behave in a particular way, we would basically be able to see the construction of the simulation lattice--and confirm that we are indeed living in a computer simulation.
Of course, this exercise only works if our robotic overseers built their simulation the same way we would. Then again, they would, wouldn’t they? After all, we created the robots in our image, and the robots created The Program. Possibly. If our sentient robotic conquerers built their Matrix differently than Beane and company predict, or at a vastly smaller scale, we still won’t see the simulation around us, and we’ll continue to go on about our insignificant simulated lives blissfully unaware.
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"a femtometer is one million nanometers"
Actually a femtometer is one millionth of a nanometer, making this even crazier
How do YOU know we are not?
If that comment is directed at me, I wasn't saying "crazy" to mean "ludicrous", I more meant it was mind-blowing.
this article is obviously based on the movie Matrix, i think more of a "simulation" as a pure program (no bodies connected outside)
---
(Type 0.72) = We are still just cleaver monkeys!
Well if we find out that indeed we are in a simulation, and we learn to manipulate the code....
*sssspoof* (mind blown)
Staring into the mirror, I left want to be on the other side, since I have doubts my current reality is valid, since I cannot verify the other reality in the reflection is real or are they both real?
Then in the depths of the mirror, I see another mirror, reflecting the very reflection again and yet again.
So in other words, to consider we are inside one simulation would open up the possibility that we could actually be in the depths of multiple simulation, built upon them.
Oh, what a deep rabbit hole we have crawled, lol.
For now, I will stop considering my own reflection and go buy some chocolate. ONce I finish my chocolate, I will the reflect upon it's delicous taste or is it me reflecting, huh?
I broke the mirror. I am real, lol.
I suggest they turn off the simulation, too. ;)
Oh they can't turn off the simulation.
They're be no justification to get paid for this project.
And my response to that, thinking.
If you are a simulation, no need to pay you anyways,
bu bye sir. ;)
They are going to blue screen of death us all!
Binary numbers which are base two numbers with the numbers 0 and 1 are the basis of modern computer language today. We use them in many different ways yet these number's can run some of the most complex equations and programs ever developed if set in packages called binary code. We do this using an electromagnetic on and off switch, 1 on, 0 off. Using these numbers we can sit in our place of worship and create a complicated 3D model in a CAD-CAM system, using only binary numbers. We send that program of the model we made over the internet anywhere on our planet, the person sitting by their computer halfway around the world prints out a 3D model from the downloaded program sent over the internet.
A 3D solid object was created by a binary number system that only existed in the mind of the engineer who modeled it before they teleported it thousands of miles away turning 0's and 1's into a solid object with mass that occupies space. The mass was already there we just re-arranged it into the form of the model we wanted printed out. The engineer didn't know each bit-code however he or she knew the symbols, letters or instructions that each bit represented to make the model. With today technology if we lived on another world light years away we can do the same thing teleporting it through space from earth, it's as though we teleported at the speed of light through space a solid object with mass using only 0's, 1's......
Flash back 2,400 years to what Democritus and the atomist (Leucippus followers) were saying, atoms are the smallest indivisible bodies from which everything else is composed, and that they move about in an infinite void space. In the information age we have the power of the binary numbers fundamental on and off switch. With this simple binary code number system we can make complicated programs that bring down dictators in the middle east, predict the weather, beat the smartest chess master, and teleport over empty space a program of an object that assembles matter into most any form that we like.
According to the most popular belief in science today every corner of our universe lies some very strange dark undetectable particles that they call dark matter that gives off what they believe is dark energy. There not sure that one is related to the other but they can't explain how our spiral galaxy can stay together without it. This is done with some particle with a very small amount of mass that they believed to be very cold, some scientist think it is the axion....
If someone, preferably god, built an a-particle that is in every corner of our universe, a small dark indivisible mysterious particle that has mass and is responsible for the way we view light, this magical particle can make all other particles including gods other said particle, the Higgs boson, what powers would she give it?????
See here for the entire essay.
shineinnovations.com/
Ron Bennett
Could time dilatation be a clue to there being a simulation? It may sound like reverse logic, because you would think in a simulation cause and effect may be instant. But, maybe time dilation is an effect of whatever framework the simulation being built upon not being infinitely powerful.
Doesn't this entire experiment rely on the laws of physics being identical (albeit imperfectly) in our 'simulated' Universe as the 'real' one? I thought that one of the main pieces of evidence we have now that we live in a simulation are the physical laws we have now being a much more imperfect copy of the 'real' Universe than just having a cut-off in the high-energy cosmic ray spectrum. I mean, look at the discrepancy between quantum theory and general relativity. Maybe the reason we are having a hard time incorporating them into one theory is that they are in fact two entirely separate entities, as our creators had too much trouble simulating their 'perfect' Universe. As VecTron mentioned above, perhaps special relativity was just thrown into the mix of this simulation to explain the simulation's inability to make the speed of cause and effect infinite. If our physics are so different from the world in which the simulation was made, the GZK cut off may not exist in the real world, making this entire experiment bunk!
Whatever we surmise today will usually be proven wrong because were infinitesimally small minded. That dark matter we can't see? That's the inside of a super mind at work playing with all the stuff inside that we CAN see.
in this theory, id be represented by a unique code thats capable of being re-interpreted by the programmer or implemented into a new simulation
@ence182
LOLed ^^
---
(Type 0.72) = We are still just cleaver monkeys!
It doesnt matter if we are in a simulation or not. We are real. Our conciousness makes us real. Nothing else. In the future, you want to be in simulations. You will spend of your time there. Your brain is capable of making reality as real as real can be. Vivid dreams are a great example. We already give so much of our time to virtual reality. You play games on your phones. You browse things all day and put your brain into shows on TV.
People spemd more money on gaming now then ever before. RPGs are nothing more thana virtual reality. We used to spend more time doing things. Going outside, excersizing, traveling, etc. Now we spend more time in front of a computer screen than ever.
We are already cpmfortable with being in virtual worlds. Why does that question of reality scare us so much? Is it the lack of control? Are we afraid we are imprisoned somehow? Afraid that we will cease to exist? Does rewriting the code actually do anything to the physical case of the computer?
The one constant in humans is that we will always create a big enough microscope. Questioning your exisstence is all the proof you need that you are real. Exploring and defining the space you exist in is also proof of real. However, do we really want to know what brought it all together? Is not the ability to have harmony without knowing, the more important goal?
"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."
D13 You are a genius.
What is the difference? Our reality is the same as a massive simulation. Just as a computer simulation is a part of this universe. It cannot possibly be separate from it.
The software "Our consciousness" makes us real. The hardware it runs on is irrelevant.
Or else we would need to answer the question "What IS real?"
S Monkey
There is nothing organic about a machine, we digress to the God debate.
Wouldn't it be crazy if we were a simulation with in a simulation of a simulation that WAS a simulation!!
I guess I now know what my English teachers meant by having mixed metaphors. The author should have stuck with the Alice in Wonderland references to explore how minute the physical world is, as illustrated when Alice attempted to serve and then cut cake to the Lion and the Unicorn when they argued as to who got the larger slice.
One way to determine this is by weighing each half on a scale that goes to the millionth of a gram, and even then neither the Lion nor the Unicorn budging on agreement until a scale that goes to the billionth of a gram can be sought. And once that scale is found, then the argument keeps going for a trillionth of a gram, and so on.
It gives me great joy to read this. No matter how our world is described by the best minds to have thought about such things, there has never been a conclusion drawn that eliminates the possibility of the existence of God.
Yes there is a big possibility that we are part of a simulation created by a superior lifeform. But lets not forget what scyher said in the matrix "ignorance is bliss". Most of us wouldn't mind being I a simulation and being unaware of the truth.
@deko
Check out the movies The 13th floor. It takes on a more realistic approach on the world of simulations. And also check out Dark City
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -Morpheus
Follow the white rabbit.....
Perhaps it is We who are through the looking glass, not them......
@templarknight
There has also never been a conclusion drawn that eliminates the possibility of the existence of a Martian bunny rabbit. But as with all things, time may tell.....
@JediMindset
I think there is merit to Cypher's credo. Especially when considering most people these days couldn't tell you with absolute certainty what was in the lunch they bought today or where it came from. Most people accept what they are presented with, regardless of what actually is. Perception is reality. The Bible has only truths....
There is a good movie exactly about this topic called "the Thirteenth floor" check it out.
I was reading on wikipedia a while ago about this topic, I think under "brain in a vat" But looks like the page was severly (negatively) edited and now contains like 1/20 of the information that used to be on there. Anyways.... one interesting thing I remember among many was that if we were living in a computer simulation, things like tornados and hurricanes could actually be a "glitch" in the program that were never intended to occur, but after the fact, getting rid of them would make us "sims" more suspicious then to leave them be.
@nighthawkich,
correct. we are, in a sense, already "programmed"(no pun intended) to not question this reality. we are already like "automatons" that are really consistent in constantly working and only caring about a payday. everything else is secondary. society is training humanity to work like slaves and in trade getting "paid" money that in reality isnt worth much. this is the dilemma that was bothering Neo. he understood what was (actual?)reality but society had got him so used to the materialistic aspect of life that he didnt want to let it go.
@KushSmoka420,
wow thats an incredible concept. maybe natural disasters are really glitches in the system. and if thats the case that means that the "creators" really are not perfect as we make em out to be lol. and yeah i love that movie "the 13th Floor" !
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -Morpheus
OH here we go again... saying that if we can't do it now, then it can't be done ever. I'm sorry, but if a being smart enough to create an AI world this complex can't deal with things being infinite, than I'd hazard to guess the level of detail we see wouldn't be possible either. This is akin to saying, well we can't create sustainable cold fusion, therefore it cannot be done. When in the hell are these people going to stop thinking inside the "box" of "now" and start using that thing called an IMAGINATION. Hell, didn't I just read of a planet made up of diamonds... Just because we cannot do something NOW does not mean we won't be able to in the future... lame
Playing Devil's Advocate since 1978
"The only constant in the universe is change"
-Heraclitus of Ephesus 535 BC - 475 BC
G.O.D, the initials of the programmer who created this "game" we live in because he is a massive loser with no life and wanted a better "second life" ... now there, that should blow some minds.
Playing Devil's Advocate since 1978
"The only constant in the universe is change"
-Heraclitus of Ephesus 535 BC - 475 BC
science "big bang as a massive explosion of light and energy"= god "let there be light" = The Program booting up.
there i solved the mystery. same XXXXing thing.
so by default if the universe is a program then the computer programmer is a "god". lives outside of the universe it created. is not affected by our daily going-ons, time isnt relevant to said Programmer. yup thats a god. but wait, we are just a program running...so the programmer lives in his own universe so he is not THE god. maybe there are others, running their own programs.
it is entirely possible that we are a bigger version of the sims, being played on kids computer and our entire history of the universe might just be an after school of clicking a mouse for the kid. in the games u can speed up time so why cant they do the same?
If we aren't living inside a computer simulation then something very similar to each and everyone of us will be in the future, and will ask the same question. Simulations of the Universe are evolving along with computers, and the precision will eventually get extremely high, hence we will appear in them, naturally. And our every move in them can be watched from outside the simulation.
The only thing anyone can prove in life is that "they" exist in some form. A person can prove that because "nothing" can't ask a question. Past that "this something, that I choose to call me" there is no way any other thing can be proved.
Philosophy 101.
Modern people want to believe with their high powered computers they can prove this or that, but in truth this question has been posed and answered long before. No matter how you try you can not get past the first "I exist" because for everything else we rely on our senses, which we know can be fooled, the only real question is to what degree.
A pointless exercise.
Lt. LaForge; Please report to the holodeck immediately. Red Alert. Holographic safeties having been previously disabled with the Captain's override, Mr. LaForge ties the running program into the ship's emitters and weapons systems, creating a sim of a universe outside the Enterprise to trick Q off of the ship; to the sim of the Enterprise in that universe. Of course, Ryker is still playing poker with Q for the fate of the universe, so he must be projected to the card table there, and then be switched at some point for a sim Ryker. On this all depends. But we won't find out right now, because it's two episodes.
The moral? If we find out we live in a sim, blame everything on cheesy plotlines. That will really have the sim creator steaming.
If the great programmer of our universe is monitoring this I have a request. Could you tweak the program so that the Yankees win four in a row? Plus how about some nice weather this weekend? While you're at it you know that hot red head...
I'm tight with the Deity, and he assures me that his son is running a genetic algorithm, so in fact our universe is only one of a vast number of competing simulations.
Winner take all.
I'll Tweet you if our universe's simulation wins.
Otherwise, I won't.
@cyberpizza13: Good catch. I'm glad that at least some of the readers of PopSci are numerate.
Does PopSci have editors? Have they taken any science or math courses?
@KushSmoka420: Yes, "The Thirteenth Floor" is worth a look. IIRC, it was available for streaming on NetFlix.
Reality in the universe is just as we happen to find it, isn't it? So it goes on and on as we find out more, but it's all the same at whatever moment we reckon it. Here we are, still.
"Is the dream you dream any less real
Than the dream you dream you're dreaming?"
-Fernando Pessoa
JediMindset!!!!
Your alive, ALIVE!
I am glad to see your comments sir! You have been surely missed! ;)
If we are, I am going to kick that programmers @$$ for not giving my wife triple Ks...for not giving me lots of money, and for not giving any of us access to the restart button...
Well I got in late.
But the facts remain, this is possible. This could, theoretically, be a Super U.N. trying to figure out how badly we can screw a planet up.
I want to take this a step further. We are NOT the only sim. There's probably a trillion of them, all with differing variables. I.E., global warming has already hit and we all live underwater, or Yellowstone has already erupted and the next iceage is upon us.
Think ablout MMORPG's, micro-cosms unto themselves. Several thousand servers, each with differing actions taking place, etc.
Think about it...
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Mark Twain
And question, would it be possible for us to create such a program on our own, and such continue a chain that would be, most likely, endless. An RPG (tip o' the hat to D13, welcome back friend!) could, theoretically, start to question its own existance and think, even though it doesn't know it's thinking, and yet thinking is in the programming!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
Mark Twain
If so, I hope they got a UPS and that they don't get bored at the game.
Look at it this way.
We are the inner working of something bigger. We are energy! We need to look at things invertedly This way we will understand dark matter and the outter workings of the universe and a whole lot of things
Our eyes are our blind folds :)
Chris
Perhaps it is an experimental aquarium with beings that are larger than the universe itself, there are some clues to this in the Bible like the name of the first man Adam or is it really Sub-Atom, interesting to think about.
WOE is Me !
theirs a possibility that were are,(this universe) nothing more but an atom compared to the rest of this existence.
"You take the blue pill – the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill – you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -Morpheus
Think about this. Our universe is made up of rules. In some cases rules are bent or do not exist, but nevertheless, there are always rules no matter what you are talking about.
So, what upholds these rules? What upholds natural law? Everything in science is based upon the presumption that the "rules" will continue to be the same and continue to be enforced.
Math and science is just a game. You become a better player with the more knowledge you have of the rules. It's just like any video game we play.
So, like this article states, what is reality? What upholds it? I believe it's Jesus. Why? Because my reality informs me that He is who upholds the laws of the universe.
Collosians 1:15-17
"15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
Ya, you're right, the flying spaghetti monster might exist as well, but something tells me that the flying spaghetti monster didn't create the universe because, well, he's made of spaghetti.
I just had an epiphany. Monster needs to create a drink called "Flying Spaghetti."
We don't even know if we're in our very own simulated world, meanwhile one that was created for us to share..Hasn't anyone seen Vanilla Sky??
This theory is known as "MindFuck"
I wonder what Alien lifeforms would think of this, being that they are SO advanced.
The assumption that a simulation of us must be running on a computer like we understand is specious at best. A computer boils down to a machine that takes a memory state (a collection of 1/0 digitizations) and based on a set of rules computes (converts) them to a new state again and again. This set of sequential states is the simulation, not the computer.
Once this is understood, we can see that an infinite collection of memory states is contained in an infinite set. This infinite set is equivalent to all to the memory states of a finite computer's over time. So any infinite set mapped to digital 1/0 values is equivalent to any finite state machine (a computer being one) that might run a simulation in time. A number line is an infinite set and so it can be mapped to all the states of a computer running any finite sized simulation, even very large ones. This means there does not need to be a computer to represent a simulation or even something of substance, just a set of states that can represent the simulation that gives us the perception of our own existence. Yes, something from nothing.