The Chinese government is rapidly building a bigger, more sophisticated military. Here’s what they have, what they want, and what it means for the U.S.

Dark Sword Drone
Dark Sword Drone Nick Kaloterakis

In a single generation, China has transformed itself from a largely agrarian country into a global manufacturing and trading powerhouse. China’s economy is 20 times bigger than it was two decades ago and is on track to surpass the United States’ as the world’s largest. But perhaps most startling has been the growth of China’s ambitious and increasingly powerful military.


Click to see the planes leading China's military innovation

Just 10 years ago, the budget for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) was roughly $20 billion. Today, that number is more like $100 billion. (Some analysts think it’s closer to $160 billion.) The PLA’s budget is only a sixth of what the U.S. devotes to defense annually, but defense dollars go much further in China, and in the years ahead, Chinese military spending will grow at the same rate as its economy. Meanwhile, Chinese president Hu Jintao has called for the PLA to carry out “new historic missions” in the 21st century—to move beyond the traditional goal of defending the nation’s sovereignty and develop the global military reach of a true world superpower. In some cases, China’s increasing international presence could lead to greater cooperation with the U.S., as it did in 2008 when China joined antipiracy patrols off Somalia. But if American and Chinese forces end up in the same place with different goals, the result could be a standoff between two of the best-equipped militaries in the world.

American officials aren’t just concerned about the amount of money the Chinese military is spending. They’re worried about the technology that money is buying. U.S. military hardware remains a generation ahead of any rival’s, but the Chinese have begun to close the gap. Consider China’s progress in building advanced warplanes. Until recently, American officials thought their F-22 and F-35 aircraft were the world’s only fifth-generation fighters (the name given to a class of stealthy fighter jets developed in the past decade, which are equipped with radar-evading features, high-performance engines and avionics, and networked computer systems). Then, on a 2011 trip to China, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates learned otherwise. While Gates met with Hu Jintao, his hosts “coincidentally” revealed the existence of an advanced new fighter, the J-20, by staging the inaugural public flight over the city of Chengdu.

The J-20 is far from China’s only new aircraft. The PLA is also aggressively upgrading its drone fleet. A decade ago, the army had almost no unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). At aviation trade shows today, Chinese contractors display scores of drones under development. Among the most notable: the Yilong (Pterodactyl I) and BZK-005, which greatly resemble the U.S. military’s Predator and Global Hawk, respectively. China’s future UAVs may also get a boost from American technology: Iran has reportedly given Chinese scientists access to the RQ-170 advanced spy drone that went down in its territory last year.

Additionally, China is investing heavily in its navy. Today, the U.S. is the only country that can send aircraft carriers loaded with fighter jets to any corner of the globe. The PLA would like to change that. The Chinese have spent the past few years retrofitting a 65,000-ton Soviet aircraft carrier (which the PLA acquired using a fake travel agency as a front) with new engines and weapons including Flying Leopard surface-to-air missile batteries and automated air defense machine-gun systems. The ship, called the Liaoning, can carry approximately 50 aircraft, including the Shenyang J-15 Flying Shark, a fighter jet that may be as capable as an F-18. China is also building stealthy 8,000-ton destroyers, along with nuclear submarines and amphibious assault ships. A new 36,000-ton cruise ship modified for military purposes, the Bahai Sea Green Pearl, can carry more than 2,000 soldiers and 300 vehicles. With its new naval muscle, China has dispatched troops and police to U.N. peacekeeping operations in places as far-flung as Africa and Latin America.

* * *

In some ways, China’s rise echoes that of imperial Germany at the turn of the 20th century. At the time, Britain was the world’s undisputed economic and military superpower. When Germany decided to build battleships to match the Grand Fleet’s dreadnoughts, the two nations entered an arms race that helped set the stage for the first world war. But when war broke out, Britain didn’t lose a single battleship to Germany’s High Seas Fleet. German mines and submarines, on the other hand—new technologies that arrived unexpectedly and changed the rules of battle—sunk 13 British battleships.

Similarly, the PLA has more to gain by developing new technologies than by racing to match American sea and air power. China doesn’t have to amass a navy as powerful as the American fleet if it can make the seas too dangerous for U.S. ships to travel. To that end, the PLA is acquiring weapons such as mobile, truck-launched anti-ship ballistic missiles and radar-evading, ramjet-powered Sunburn cruise missiles, which tear toward their targets at Mach 2.5, giving defenses only seconds to respond.

China could also easily go after American vulnerabilities in space. More than 80 percent of U.S. government and military communications, which direct everything from soldiers in the field to precision missile strikes, travel over satellites. GPS satellites control the movement of 800,000 U.S. military receivers on everything from aircraft carriers to individual bombs and artillery shells. The system isn’t foolproof: In early 2010, a GPS “glitch” left almost 10,000 of these receivers unable to connect for days.

Meanwhile, China is also expanding its ability to knock things out of space. In addition to its proven satellite-killing missiles, the PLA is developing maneuverable microsatellites that would act like tiny space kamikazes, along with directed-energy (laser) devices that could blind or melt U.S. systems in space. In 2007, Senior Colonel Yao Yunzhu of the Chinese Academy of Military Science (the highest research institute in the PLA) announced that the U.S. wouldn’t be the world’s only “space superpower” for long. The Chinese plan to send more than 100 civilian and military satellites into orbit in the next decade, and the PLA is testing what appears to be an unmanned, reusable space plane.

China’s most potent new capability, though, might be what the PLA has called “informationized warfare,” or cyber war. Just as the U.S. military has created its own Cyber Command, the PLA has assigned more than 130,000 personnel to cyber warfare programs. And while Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta has warned about a potential cyber Pearl Harbor, the greater threat might be the theft of U.S. government secrets and intellectual property. So far, operations thought to have originated in China have compromised sensitive networks in the State Department as well as computers involved in the F-35 joint strike fighter program.

* * *

In the 1984 movie Red Dawn, one character explained why war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union seemed inevitable: “Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later, they’re gonna fight.” A few years ago, when Hollywood set out to remake the movie, the filmmakers updated the script by replacing the Soviet bad guys with the Chinese. Then real-world economics came into play. To avoid losing access to China’s multibillion-dollar film market, they digitally switched the adversary to North Korea in postproduction.

The episode underscores an important point: Unlike the U.S. and the Soviets, the U.S. and China are bound together by hundreds of billions of dollars in mutual trade and investments. War between the two countries would be mutually ruinous. Leaders on both sides know it. American and Chinese forces will eye each other suspiciously, and the relationship may become tense. But recall that the much feared war between the U.S. and Soviets—the issue that defined world politics for the second half of the 20th century—never did break out. With so much to lose, the two toughest kids decided it wasn’t worth it to fight.

Peter W. Singer is director of the 21st Century Defense Initiative and a senior fellow in foreign policy at the Brookings Institution. This article appeared in the January issue of Popular Science.

53 Comments

Why fight America when it can just buy us in a few decades. It's already rapidly doing just that.

How many population centers has China destroyed with Nuclear Weapons? The US is bigger danger to the people of this planet (and others)than China is, PERIOD.

Access denied to photo gallery? Ain't nobody got time for dat!

The rise of China fits well with the US fiscall cliff theme. This is a new historical power shift in the makin people. Though China thanks to it's one child policy and quickly aging population might not be enjoying the fruits like other superpowers in the past.

On top of that India is also rising and could become the worlds most populous nation within the next 20 years so will become an ever bigger influence although they need much more economic development still then China or most other countries.

Also in Europe with new steps for further integration under leadership of France, Germany and Brussels and new proposals to even pull budgets together there seems to be a large singel super Europe on the horizon. With leadership like CERN and ESO, Rydercup, Eurocopter and more Europe is already showing that by working together they can become world leaders in any field.

Adapting rules like in Greece to northern European standards could even make Greece strong in the long run. Plus the prospect of rising Turkey and possible even Russia, Ukraine, and Israel joining, the EU could expand to over 800 million people. Even Putin has talked about the potential. Not to mention the change if the EU proposal for a directly elected European president go ahead.

The world keeps changing.

Hopefully they will keep each other in check so our future will not too closely resemble a zombie apocalypse.

Nothing like wasting money in an arms race. The space spin-offs are nice though. First time i was ever glad the US has a huge classified arsenal.

"...The PLA’s budget is only a sixth of what the U.S. devotes to defense annually, but defense dollars go much further in China, and in the years ahead, Chinese military spending will grow at the same rate as its economy..."

The USA military budget includes R&D and the China is allowed to include less R&D, simply because they are STEALING our data, every single day across the board of USA business and government agencies. This is not an exaggeration, because it is in the NEWS every single day.

The USA needs to minimize communication ties with CHINA; no internet exchange. China is hacking us and the world constantly and it is an obviously well-known OLD FACT!

Deathpool1984, Lol ...aint nobody got time for dat!". Love that video.

On a serious note though... USA is pretty far advanced. It will take more than a single country to take us down. It would require a huge group effort. Once done though, what does the rest of the world gain?

So you dont agree with our idealogy? Ok, thats fine but then again your culture is still affected and pretty much driven by western culture. Aside from our supposed brutish nature, and overindulgence, that the rest of the world likes to throw in our faces, we drive the popular and techno cultures around the world.

Would countries benefit from losing that? Nope. Our free country creates free minds in most cases. People not affected by their governments control or forced idealogy.

The world would definitely miss America. We have been the number one innovator of technology and culture for quite a while now. We came over on those boats, let in people from around the world, and made quite a mark on culture. Though you might say you hate America, you will still need to admit that we are an envy of the world and almost everyone in the civilized world has worn a pair of designer jeans, listened to American music, watched a music videao and eaten an American style hamburger.

We have shown the rest of the world how to broadcast TV, improve news and radio shows and how to run advertizing. We gave the world the WWW (not invention of arpanet but the modern WWW) and pioneered computers as well as cellphones and smartphones. The industrial revolution would be a major turning point for most of the worlds innovation as well.

Yes, why would someone want to remove the single most innovative race of people on the planet? A world without America? Not very smart. Not very smart financially either since spending is what really drives economies and American stuff is what these other countries copy and sell to their public.

Aside from that? The US already has a weapon system to counter the Sunburn. A system that fires and updated Mach2 version of the Sidewinder, and laser systems, can catch them. Makes you wonder why Obama took away funding from laser defense?

We also lead the world in metamaterial sciences. You cant defect against what you cant see. Arguably we will never be matched until a country perfects this technology. Again though, why would you really want to destroy America?

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

oops! correction : ..."You cant defend against what you cant see".

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

I do think that China's effort to modernize their military and project it globally is disturbing. China has already started to try and start territorial disputes regionally with Vietnam, the Philippines and Japan. Regardless of their rise to power I know that the US will plan to balance the their efforts. Not to mention the fact the there are a lot of other free countries that will back the US up.

Now do one for new technology the US has or is creating.

It is nice to see what China has been doing with all that money and technology we have been sending over there.

democedes,
Ouch, our interest on the treasuring bonds we sold them is paying they way for manufactoring and their hackers are stealing our R&D, daily!

OUCH,D'OH and FACEPALM!!!!!!

Oops, another correction : Britain lost the battleship Hood to the Germans, sunk by the battleship Bismark on may 24 1941.

@Brendan0791
no, they were discussing the first world war.

Designs are surely inspired by the US military....There is no need for research and development in china since it is very easy to steal data....You'll see they will soon copy American cities and maybe change their skin colors from yellow to white and make their hairs look like ours and nose and height and d*@$ks....basically they just want to be us....what a bunch of losers

If war does break out between these two superpowers, hopefully all of the countries fighting against China don't imprison the Chinese ethnic groups living within their borders. Canada and U.S.A did that during World War 2 (sent Japanese population to labor camps), not sure if Europe did something similar too. Then again, didn't the Bush administration have a tendency to target brown-skinned people during their "war on terror"?

War war war, weaopons and war. Is that all superpowers can think about?
If there is war yet, it would be in the middle east. They need fixing. I think they are so use to fighting, that they may not know what to do besides fighting.
As far as superpowers going against eachother, that depends on what leaders think about extinguishing life for no good reason.
Is earth ever going to find PEACE ? Not as long as we still snub our noses at eachother. Yes, when all people realize we are all family on this planet, and should treat eachother as such, sharing resources and effort , and knowledge. There cannot be peace in this world if money is not changed worldwide, changed in a way that it doesnt mean death or no sheltor if you dont have it. To think , all the Jobs that depend on weapons and war , what are WE DOING????? Let the past stay in the past ,lets get on with Heaven on Earth...-.

The americans are too smart for the chinese. They have a separate system for military internet. And sure the chinese have a drone, but its hardly the americans best. Obama shut down NASA because it was a PR machine, colossal waste of money. The good stuff is behind closed doors and classified. According to a retired military diplomat i know : "the US is 100-200 years of what they disclose publicly"

Good on USA.

100-200 years ahead

@ dkella

I agree.

I have heard the same, in terms of top secret tech being hundreds of years ahead(Technologically speaking). The US has billion over decades on military advancement. Dont think for one second that we know about everything in their arsenal. Lets not forget that there was a stealth heli discovered with the bin laden 'raid'.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/top-secret-stealth-helicopter-program-revealed-osama-bin/story?id=13530693

Question everything.

has spent*

P.S.

Popsci please allow an "edit" function

@dkella

You are very ignorant of the facts. NASA has not been shut down,is not a wast of monet, and is not a "PR machine". Also, the military is not 100 to 200 years head in technology. That is just crazy talk. If the miliatry hade that kind of tech they would be using it.

I doubt their hardware will work very long. The cheap junk they sell to the rest of the world doesn't last.

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China and America does indeed have hundreds of billions of dollars of trade each year. It is obviously beneficial for both to maintain this trade. The hostilities have all come from the US. Even though Americans constantly hear the "China Threat" the truth is China hasn't been threatening to America for the last 30 years since Deng had become the paramount leader. China's guiding principle in foreign policies has been "hide the light" or keeping a low profile and emphasize peace and economic development. But over the last several years China's neighbors have increased their aggressions and openly arresting Chinese fishermen in China's historical sovereign waters with the active encouragement of America. In spite of this, the government of Hu and Wen still continued to be placating. But in 2012 America announced its "pivot to Asia" which promises to direct 60% of its military assets to the Asian-Pacific theatre obviously against China. In response of this the Chinese people have called for an accelerated development and expansion of its military. At the same time, the stagnation of the economies of Japan, America and the EU countries have made it obvious that China can no longer rely on them to grow its economy. So the emphasis now is to shift China's economic development inward to domestic development. Given the increased aggression against it by Japan and America and their decreased ability to expand importation of Chinese products, China has finally begin to mentally prepare itself for war against these two former enemies.

The most prominent of China's "new" arms has not been mentioned in the article above. These are the DF-31A and DF-41, China's solid rocket fuel ICBMs. China has been deliberately held back in the deployment of these long range missiles for fear of provoking the "China Threat" demonization. But beginning 2012 China has tested its ICBMs no less than 5 times. This signals an urgent effort to deploy more ICBMs to achieve parity with the US. I think China will most likely deploy some 2,000 nuclear warheads within the next 5 to 10 years to equal the number of deployed American nuclear warheads. The article mentioned that there were no actual wars between the USSR and America. The main reason was the MAD. And only if China can do the MAD against the US will there be no wars against the US.

In the end, the Cold War between the USSR and America ended with the collapse of the USSR. The main reason was that the USSR could not sustain the excessive military expenditure to arms race with America. Now the table has turned against the US in its arms race with China. Currently, China's economy is only 50 trillion yuan and heavily dependent on exports. Unfortunately for China, the exports requires cheap labor to allow its products to be competitive in the global market. This requires the Chinese workers to be poor and that in turn limits the growth of China's domestic economy. But going into the future as China phases out its foreign trade and turns inward to develop its domestic economy based on the indigenous technologies, the urbanization of the rural residents and energy self-sufficiency, China's domestic economy can grow to some 300 trillion yuan within 30 years. By 2042 China's population will reach 1.5 billion with per capita GNP of 200,000 yuan to produce a total GNP of 300 trillion. At the purchasing power rate of exchange of 3 yuan per dollar, this is $100 trillion (2012 purchasing power). Therefore, China's GNP can be expected to be 7 times bigger than America's GNP. That means China can outspend the US by some 7 times in terms of arms. As a result of such economic disparity, the outcome of an arms race is predictably catastrophic for America just as it was catastrophic for the USSR.

Therefore, I hope the US will change its threatening policy of "pivot to Asia" and reverse its historical policy of "containing China". It is obvious that America can no longer contain China. The inevitable result of such a futile effort will only be the collapse of the American economy on the scale of the Soviet collapse. America already has a foretaste of such a collapse in the past few years. A wise man would be able to learn and benefit from its pain so that its suffering will not be in vain.

In the end, there is no historical animosity from the Chinese against the US. All the animosity between the US and China is direct from the US against China. From the Exclusion Act in the late 19th Century to exclude Chinese immigrants from the US to the current denigration against the Chinese-Americans, it is the Americans who holds all the prejudice. Now it is time to abandon that prejudice, recognize China for the great power it is and through a friendly relationship between the world's two greatest superpowers establish for the first time in the world a genuine peace. Instead of squandering trillions of dollars on arms, think about the benefit that would accrue to both countries and the world if those trillions of dollars are spent on developing the technologies to mine the moon and the asteroid belt and manned exploration of Mars and beyond. The world can go in a good direction or it can go in a very bad direction. It all depends on whether America want to continue its anti-Chinese policy or to establish genuinely good relationship based on equal partnership.

@Liang1a

LOL..you need to read more stuff about your country from other countries....you are not FREE and therefore can't say anything about FREEDOM.....

@ Liang1a; Yeah it really would be nice. But you have the kool-aid in your veins about your faultless and blameless nation. It doesn't exist, anywhere. No such thing. Even the so-called neutral nations without military are scumbags on fairly regular intervals.
China would make a fantastic partner in space, but your nation doesn't want to play with anyone else.
China would make a fantastic ally, but they haven't wanted anything like a normal relationship since WWII. Just to send a diplomat to that country is bigtime world news, whether the diplomat does any good or not; just because of it's rarity. China rarely wants to talk with us at all. There have been what? 4 Presidential trips to China since Nixon? Not because we don't offer, but because China turns away from us.
I think a world space effort could put an ice asteroid in Mars orbit inside 30 years. That would let us terraform Mars with far less effort and treasure than any technique utilized on the Mars surface. Not to mention that if we want a useable planet, we really need to leave it's gases and water in the ground if at all possible because Mars tends to lose atmosphere.
But without a serious world effort that China would participate in will probably never exist. And Kool-Aid in your veins or not, you know that's true.

@quasi44
I had tried to respond to your post but got blocked as spam. I tried to report the problem by pressing the button but got nowhere. I guess this is freedom in America.

quasi44 wrote:
But without a serious world effort that China would participate in will probably never exist. And Kool-Aid in your veins or not, you know that's true.

If China can maintain an annual growth of 7.5% per year for the next 30 years it will achieve a GNP of 300 trillion yuan and $100 trillion with an exchange rate of 3 yuan per dollar. If China then allocates 4% of GNP to science and technology (America currently allocates 4% of its GDP to military expenditure) then it can allocate some $4 trillion a year for many scientific R&D including space exploration. For instance it can allocate $1 trillion for space exploration with $250 billion going to manned exploration of Mars. Currently, the entire annual budget of NASA is only $17.8 billion (2012 FY) according to one report (Wiki-NASA). The amount allocated by NASA for Mars exploration probably amounts to only a few trillion dollar a year if that much. Therefore, manned exploration of Mars is not possible without China. And if America can contribute a few billion dollars while China contriubutes hundreds of billions of dollars equivalent then it makes little difference if America participates or not. China can go to Mars perfectly well by itself or it can take along a few friends such as Russia or Iran or Brazil or maybe even Germany or France.

@quasi44:
China would make a fantastic partner in space, but your nation doesn't want to play with anyone else.
--------------------

Liang's response:
Actually China has been very eager to participate in international cooperation events. It had tried to join the International Space Station but was rejected. Now it doesn't make any difference to China. After the ISS ends in 2020 there will be no space station except for the Chinese space station.

From the quote below it is obvious that you are wrong to say China does not want to play with anyone else. It is obvious that it is America who does not want to play with China. But in the end, America's exclusion of China makes no difference to China since it is China now who has the only ball around. And can you blame China if it decides to return the favor and exclude America?

Below is a quote from Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_space_station#China

In 2007, Chinese vice minister of science and technology Li Xueyong stated that China would like to participate in the ISS,[276] then, in 2010 ESA Director-General Jean-Jacques Dordain stated his agency was ready to propose to the other 4 partners that China be invited to join the partnership, but this needs to be a collective decision by all the current partners.[47]

All 5 governmental partners would need to agree before China could be included. ESA is open to China's inclusion, the United States of America (US) is against it. The US concerns over the transfer of technology which could be used for military purposes echo similar concerns with Russia prior to their membership.[277] These concerns were overcome, and NASA became solely dependent upon Russian crew capsules when its Shuttles were grounded after the Columbia accident in 2003,[278] and again after its retirement in 2011.[279][280] China believes that international exchanges and cooperation in the field of aerospace engineering should be intensified on the basis of mutual benefit, peaceful use and common development.[271]

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@ Liang1a; Thanks for coming back to talk. In 2007, construction of the station was either done, or was fully developed and waiting to be installed on ISS. What could China have offered on that project in '07? Or even today?
Don't get me wrong here. I'm one of a great many Americans who see space as one of the best arenas of world hope, with the knowledge that when it comes to the highest achievements possible there, we can see a true world community as the best chance. But the existing space station won't be that world bonding act, because it just can't be. It will never be bigger than it is. Experiments will change, but the labs are fixed, as are the participant nations that spent treasure and effort to get it 98% completed at the time China showed interest. What that leaves all of us now, is where we are today. China, as in the PLA, hacked the ISS. Took 'control' of it's propulsion systems. I say 'control', because they had no idea whether or not what they were doing was going to kill everyone onboard or not. Kid with a gun. And our tit for tat, the Air Force, with their OWN brand of idiocy, created a military shuttle for Above Top Secret use in the supposedly neutral arena of space. Personally, I'd like to see all of those I just spoke of publicly flogged; hackers and military opportunists alike.
As you mentioned, China doesn't have to survive on export, neither does the U.S.. We'd both survive just fine without.
It's not going to happen. What is going to happen is no less than full on militarization of space, courtesy of the U.S.A. and China. And militaries rarely play nice without firm alliance for long. I think that some of the various national launches that have blown up had to have been sabotage. Sure, America and Russia both blew up our share of rockets on the pad, but that was 60 years ago. Yet India can't get a rocket up, even though their engineers are more in demand than America's are. So, is it us? China? UK? Doesn't matter, not if we are going to get past it. And the only way to do that is that our PEOPLE demand every single day that it be so, and act on it every day. Force integration, against the current will of those in our respective governments if need be. My name is on easily more than 1000 pieces of legislation or prospective legislation, all demanding changes of one sort or another.
How about you?

quasi44

12/26/12 at 8:17 pm

@ Liang1a; Thanks for coming back to talk. In 2007, construction of the station was either done, or was fully developed and waiting to be installed on ISS. What could China have offered on that project in '07? Or even today?

-------------------------

Liang's response:
Actually there are many things that China could contribute. Even if the ISS were totally finished and launched China could contribute subsequently in the upgrading or maintenance or provisioning of the ISS. By contribute more funding China could extend the life of the ISS or do more meaningful experiments. At the very least it will provide a foundation for future cooperations. And there are many ways that China and the US could cooperate in space in the future. I'd mentioned mining the moon and the asterioid belt and the manned exploration of Mars. So with a friendly cooperation in space there could also be a lessening of tension and distrust on earth. But by rejecting China and continuing the irrational and ultimately futile policy of "containing China" the US is putting both countries on the inevitable course to catastrophic collision. And unfortunately, it will be the US who will lose as China expands its economy and advances its technologies to become much more advanced than the US. The US had its hands full confronting just one Japan economically and just one USSR militarily. How do you think the US will fare against 20 Japan and 30 USSR?

It is time for the US to reassess its policies fundamentally before it destroys itself.

@Liang1a; The existing station is already outmoded. It's just not robust enough. Yes, China could have infused it with cash. But I don't think it was seriously contemplated.
If it were so, then why didn't China just offer to buy it when Obama wanted to de-orbit it?
Now on to wartalk. The facts are like this. We've been playing MADgames the longest, so we have plenty of ways to deal with China. Plain and simple. The world ends if this nation does. That's the point of MAD. Russia learned the lesson we taught them and now sees their nuclear arsenal as largely useless. Same with their bioweapons and the rest. Even with the massive power and low costs of a Communist military, they destroyed their system playing a world game that a Communist or Socialist people should be well able to afford. Hasn't stopped China from wanting to play too. Because China wants to be Empire, not democracy. How do I know? Ever hear of 'takes one to know one'? Well, we thought we were a Democracy too. We thought we were a Republic too. We also even called ourselves a Democratic Republic and a Federated Republic as well. But we aren't any of those things. In truth, I'd call America a Federated Empire, that's partially offset with a voting public. See, a federated empire doesn't have to claim someone else's nation to get control. We just need the federal offices that control their wealth. No formal alliance necessary. And now we find that the same technique was used on us. No Emperor, but empire just the same, with almost all wealth in vaults protected by the federated offices, backed by the work of the people, who have now graciously accepted all the debts that those who own those offices told us were ours though they went against all accepted financial wisdom and wrecked the world. Now China wants to go down this road too. Be careful what you wish for, because we got it, and it really sucks.

quasi44 wrote:

12/27/12 at 2:50 pm

@Liang1a; The existing station is already outmoded. It's just not robust enough. Yes, China could have infused it with cash. But I don't think it was seriously contemplated.
If it were so, then why didn't China just offer to buy it when Obama wanted to de-orbit it?

----------------------------

China launched its own space station program with the launching of Tiangong 1 on September 29, 2011. On 16 June 2012 Shenzhou 9 successfully docked with Tiangong 1 and paved the way for more future docking to build a complete station by 2020. When the ISS is abandoned around 2020, the Tiangong space lab will be the only space station in space around earth. As to buying the ISS, there is no point for China to just buy it. Obviously, China wanted to build its own space station and own it exclusively. The building process will also allow Chinese engineers to accumulate experience for other space projects that can be applied to the moon or Mars and beyond. I think China wanted to join the ISS as a gesture of goodwill and friendship which America rejected.

It is interesting to read the last few comments. As an American I definitely agree with you quasi44. As far as Chinas military growth and desire to project it globally I do have concerns about possible future confrontation. China has certainly become more aggressive with its neighbors. Overall I am confident the US and its allies will be able to limit Chinas influence from a military perspective. I mean the real issue really isn't about who has the biggest guns or most resources. The reason the US and China are at odds (or rather China and the free world) here really has to do with the differences in issue like human rights and the types of government that each country has. For example, in the US we can have protests against our government when it does something the masses don't approve of. And when the protest get out of hand we might have to worry about tear gas and the police disbursing a rowdy crowd. In China you might be crushed by tanks. In the US we have a free press and internet. Granted some of our news can be inaccurate or politically motivated but you can pretty much say whatever you want. In China anything you say against the state is considered a crime and you can be thrown into prison. In fact the Chinese government is so paranoid that they censor everything. They are afraid of ideas and free thinking. In the US we elect our government. In China the average Chinese citizen has zero influence in choosing their government.

So if you want to sat that the US is aggressive for wanting to limit the global influence of a government like this that I agree and I also support it.

only started reading and the fact that it says that right now today the US is the only country capable of planting a carrier anywhere in the world...

umm... France has a nuclear powered aircraft carrier called the Charles de Gaulle , it was ordered in the '80's, keel was laid down in those same '80's.. it was launched in the '90's and has been sailing ever since.. it is NOT a new thing.. i carries the Rafale, an incredible aircraft that bombed the mother *ing out of Lybia along with Hawkeye's and various helicopters, missles and used that inventory as part of the support for operation enduring freedom in afghanistan numerous times.

not to mention the conventionally powered carriers of other nations navy's... you know.. say maybe to the falkland islands? yeah that was a pretty good distance away, and should qualify as an anwhere in the world type of place if you ask me...

.. do i dare continue reading, as i scrolled down to comment on the first words i read, i saw a glimpse of the words "imperial Germany" and rolled my eyes breifly, though severely enough to then recover from and see i was still trying to scroll down dispite having already reached the end of the comments already moments earlier.

what hefty thick headed ignorantly american claims am I about to spit my drink out all over my computer screen when i return to read the rest of this dissapointingly poor 'article'(read as: blog or wikipedia page) .. don't know but I am unfortunately about to find out... how unfortunate! :( ... :sadface:

OPSharma You can't expect the same mature reaction from China. And yes why it needs to fight with US when it will be able to buy US with its fledging economy

@ Liang1a; China wanted participation in the ISS once it was done. While America might be the big supplier to the ISS, we certainly don't think that we are the most important of the partner nations. We've known that we are weakening economically for a long time now. In retrospect, I think that the millenia of animosity between Japan and China might also have been a factor. Then, while Russia and China have created diplomatic and economic inroads on energy over the last couple of years, both nations are likewise too headstrong and territorial to ever become firm allies in a fully shared technological base on their own. Nor will China and India be a likely pair. I don't know what you see happening on the ground in China, but what I see leads me to think that if China takes on something like America's role in a consortium of nations in a major space program; it will likely be with Middle East and European states that aren't involved with our group. China has never once said anything other than it considers Japan, Taiwan, N+S Korea, Thailand, and all the rest of Asia as China. Not a good breeding ground for technological partnerships that have defense overtones.
America is not a feared nation. Whatever kind of scummy deal that comes out in the news, we are still an extension of the historical product Europe. Nations know what to expect. China is in fact feared. Always has been, even in the days of our tentative alliance in WWII.
America and China are going to be sharing even more interests as time goes on, but not because of alliance or goodwill, and you have to see that. It's because of each wanting the benefits of the other, while keeping the closest scrutiny possible. Here's to honorable enemies. I know it's not New Year's Day by your calendar, but I'll wish you a great year starting today anyway.

China is becoming too powerful for comfort. Time for U.S. manufacturers to pull out and reinvest back in the U.S. or in smaller countries like Vietnam, Philippines, etc.

"Soviet aircraft carrier (which the PLA acquired using a fake travel agency as a front)" - WTF?!!!

So a war develops ,And China wins.But every single American I ever met has a small arsenal in the basement.No Chinese soldier would ever be safe on American soil.Even Americans are,nt safe on American soil,And they own the country.So although attacking America.might seem like a smart idea to some.I would,nt recommend it.By the way I,m Canadian.

Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
China has certainly become more aggressive with its neighbors.
-------------
Liang's response:
Actually China has been totally non-assertive to the point of being meek and cowardly. It has declared that it will never fire the first shot no matter what the provocation. This is why China is now being invaded from all sides in the E. China Sea over Diaoyu Islands and in the S. China Sea over the many archipelagoes. But this non-assertive policy may be coming to an end with the departure of Hu Jintao and Wen Jiabao and the beginning of a new term of top leaders headed by Xi Jinping and Li Keqiang. With this new asseriveness, China has begun to respond to Japan's aggressions over Diaoyua Island where China has responded to Japan's use of military fighters with its own fighters.
-------------------------------

Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
The reason the US and China are at odds (or rather China and the free world) here really has to do with the differences in issue like human rights and the types of government that each country has.
------------------------
Liang's response:
America is very comfortable with dictatorships. It has no problems at all with Saudi Arabia where there is no human rights to speak of. America not only is comfortable with dictatorships it even installed dictatorships. An example of this is the American CIA engineered plot to topple democratic Allende government to install the military dictatorship of Pinochet. America also supported the dictatorships of Indonesia, Phillipines, Nationalist China (Taiwan), etc. None of these countries had human rights but that didn't bother America at all so long as they were "friends" of America.

And with respect to human rights, America has a very bad record with discriminations against its minorities. The black Americans and Latinos have incomes that are only 2/3 of the whites and median wealth that is only 1/20 of the whites. How can a country that respect human rights have such a dismal disparity in incomes and wealth between the dominant majority and subservient minorities? In contrast, China has no such disparity among the more than 30 races that live within the Chinese borders.
-----------------------------
Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
For example, in the US we can have protests against our government when it does something the masses don't approve of. And when the protest get out of hand we might have to worry about tear gas and the police disbursing a rowdy crowd. In China you might be crushed by tanks.
---------------------------------
Liang's response:
The only time that I ever of where tanks were used to crush protests was in Tiananmen in 1989. Since then there were many protests by many different groups over many different issues and never once were the protesters crushed by tanks. Most of the time not even tear gas were used.
----------------------------------

Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
In the US we have a free press and internet. Granted some of our news can be inaccurate or politically motivated but you can pretty much say whatever you want.
------------------------
Liang's response:
I doubt this very much. FBI will be very interested in you if you speak out against the government. Or the IRS will be scrutinizing your tax returns. Or you will find yourself on the no-fly list or some such inconveniences. You can even get into trouble simply by checking books from your neighborhood library such as "Mein Kampf" or "Das Kapital".
-------------------------

Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
In China anything you say against the state is considered a crime and you can be thrown into prison. In fact the Chinese government is so paranoid that they censor everything. They are afraid of ideas and free thinking. In the US we elect our government. In China the average Chinese citizen has zero influence in choosing their government.
---------------------------
Liang's response:
Actually the CCP has understood that it must have the support of the Chinese people in order to maintain their dominance in Chinese politics. As a result there is an increased willingness to incorporate the ideas expressed by the people. The Chinese government is also trying to create a just society with the rule of law. Though this is some times called "rule by law." Obviously the CCP is not democratic. But the CCP knows that it needs to be more democratic at least to the point of governing for the benefit of the people if not governing by the expressed will of the people. Because of this you hear many criticisms of the Chinese government in terms of policy errors. Of course, if you advocated the overthrow of the CCP then you may very well find yourself being questioned at length by unfriendly security officials.

At the same time, China obviously have a much wealthier society than India which is billed as the world's most populous democracy. Compared to most of the so-called democracies such as Philippines, Indonesia, etc., expecially those in Africa, Chinese people actually enjoy much more security from the corrutpions of their government. Crimes are low and government is reasonably efficient at least to the point of trains being on time and the streets are clean. In terms of human rights, Chinese people enjoy much more rights than America's staunch "friend" Saudi Arabia where women are not even allowed to drive cars.

Lest I leave you with the wrong impression, I do call for a democratic form of government for China. There is in place a gradual shift toward national electoral system. Currently, there is an electoral system at the village and township level where the people are allowed to elect village chiefs, etc. The majority of the Chinese people also call for democracy. And the CCP is responding to that.
------------------------------

Technodude0022 wrote:
12/28/12 at 1:02 pm
So if you want to sat that the US is aggressive for wanting to limit the global influence of a government like this that I agree and I also support it.
-----------------------------
Liang's response:
The truth is, American hostility toward China is not based on political disagreement but on racist bigotry. America is very comfortable with dictatorships so long as they are "friends" of America.
------------------------------

quasi44 wrote:
01/01/13 at 5:13 pm
@ Liang1a; We've known that we are weakening economically for a long time now.
---------------
Liang's response:
Actually, America is not weakening but only reached a limit imposed by the maximal utilzation of the existing state of the art technologies. Productivity depends on the utilization of tools and machines. And the efficiency of tools and machines depend on the level of technologies. Therefore, when the tools and machines have become maximally efficient they cannot become more efficient unless technologies advanced to a higher level. So, since America has maximally utilized its technologies, it cannot expand its productivity at a high rate of growth. And its economy becomes a zero sum equation where one person's gain must be at the expense of another person's loss. At such a time the government must institute wise policies to maintain a stable status quo so that all can have a reasonable share of the outputs of the society. Otherwise, there will be conflict and subsequent decline. America is now at such a place and must be very careful how it deals with its economic policies. At the same time, it must also be careful how it deals with powerful competition, if not outright enemies, so that it does not squander its resources and cause even less consumption to its people. That is to say, America should reduce its military expenditure and increase more social spendings and R&D into next generation technologies. With respect to China, America cannot arms race with China without suffering catastrophic waste of its resources and cause serious suffering on its people.
-------------------------

quasi44 wrote:
01/01/13 at 5:13 pm
In retrospect, I think that the millenia of animosity between Japan and China might also have been a factor. Then, while Russia and China have created diplomatic and economic inroads on energy over the last couple of years, both nations are likewise too headstrong and territorial to ever become firm allies in a fully shared technological base on their own. Nor will China and India be a likely pair. I don't know what you see happening on the ground in China, but what I see leads me to think that if China takes on something like America's role in a consortium of nations in a major space program; it will likely be with Middle East and European states that aren't involved with our group.
-------------------
Liang's response:
As usual, the animosity between China and Japan are initiated primarily from Japan. Historically, Japan had admired China during the Tang Dynasty. But as China declined militarily since the beginning of the Sung Dynasty, Japan had become more contemptuous of China. By the Ming Dynasty Japanese pirates were raiding Chinese coastal areas. By the beginning of 1800's Japan began learning science and technologies from Europe and established a strong industrial base. It instituted a long term policy to invade and conquer China. During the WW2, Japan inflicted tens of millions of deaths and never expressed any sense of remorse or apology. Now Japan is increasing its aggression against China again. At this time there is little enthusiasm on either side to cooperate in any kind of science project.

With respect to Russia, India and other countries, I don't think they can be much help to China. In the end, China's economy and technologies will be so overwhelmingly greater and more advanced than any of these countries that their cooperation will not be much more than marginal. That is to say, China can spend $500 billion equivalent on space exploration a year out of a GNP of $100 trillion. I doubt if Russia or India or any other countries can spend more than $1 billion a year on space exploration. Therefore, they cannot contribute significantly to China's space program. In the end, Chinal will probably invite them to ride along to Mars and beyond as a gesture of courtesy and friendship.
--------------------------

quasi44 wrote:
01/01/13 at 5:13 pm
China has never once said anything other than it considers Japan, Taiwan, N+S Korea, Thailand, and all the rest of Asia as China. Not a good breeding ground for technological partnerships that have defense overtones.
---------------
Liang's response:
China would like to establish a harmonious region where mutual coopeation can contribute to a stable economic growth for the benefit of all. Unfortunately, the many neighbors have all excessive contempt for China's weakness over the last couple of hundred years. But as time goes on, as China rises to its former advanced level of wealth and technologies, the Asian region will again develop a respect for China. Then there will be stability and harmony. Indeed, without China the South East Asian countries cannot grow. If you look at the level of development of the SE Asian nations you will see a strong correlation between the proportion of ethnic Chinese in these countries and the level of development of these countries. Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand have 80%, 25% and 15% ethnic Chinese respectively. And they are the 1st,2nd and 3rd richest countries in SE Asia. In contrast countries with few or no ethnic Chinese are the poorest such as Vietnam, Philippines and Indonesia which have 0%, 2% and 3% ethnic Chinese with Vietnam the poorest among them.
-----------------------
quasi44 wrote:
01/01/13 at 5:13 pm
America is not a feared nation. Whatever kind of scummy deal that comes out in the news, we are still an extension of the historical product Europe. Nations know what to expect. China is in fact feared. Always has been, even in the days of our tentative alliance in WWII.
---------------------------
Liang's response:
As I said above, China is not feared but held in contempt because Chinese are defesnseless against the natives of SE Asia who can slaughter them with impunity for hundreds of years. But as China grows stronger from now on this contempt for the rights of the Chinese will change.

America is obviously admired and to a large extent feared. It had killed millions of Filipinos during its colonial period. It had also killed millions of Vietnamese during the Vietnam War. It has demonstrated it does not hesitate to devastate whole countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore, all countries in SE Asia both admire America for its wealth and power and fear its ruthless readiness to kill millions without hesitation. In contrast China appeared to be weak and effeminate always talking about peace while its country has been invaded and its people killed. Hopefully, this will change with the new team of leaders taking office beginning March 15th of 2013. Then as China becomes richer and more powerful and more assertive in the defense of its own sovereignty, it will garner more respect from the SE Asian countries. Then the rights of the ethnic Chinese will be respected more and in the end the economies of the region will develop much faster for the benefit of all.

China's view of the world is very different from that of the West. The West has always look at the world as something to be conquered and exploited. China has always felt it is the richest and the most advanced and therefore it is beneath it to rob those who are less fortunate. Indeed, there really wasn't much that Chinese people consider worthwhile to rob. They thought it is simpler to trade. And so they did trade all around SE Asia since the time of Tang Dynasty. Because China was so big and rich that few Chinese wanted to leave it to settle in primitive foreign countries. Things have changed in the last several hundred years. As China grew weaker and poorer, Chinese people fled to foreign lands to survive the economic hardships. But now for the last several years things have begun to change again. Many overseas Chinese have liquidated their foreign possessions and returned to China which has become a land of greater opportunities. Also with the rapid development, Chinese cities have become even more modern than just about any country in the world. In comparison to the shining new railraod and airports in China, the airports of America and Japan are scrungy. Many Chinese are shocked at the dilapidated conditions of American infrastructures and cities with their crumbling bridges and roads filled with holes. The real America is nothing like what they expected from all the movies they had seen which led them to think it is an earthly paradise. In fact, they soon see America is far worse than Chinese cities.
------------------------

quasi44 wrote:
01/01/13 at 5:13 pm
America and China are going to be sharing even more interests as time goes on, but not because of alliance or goodwill, and you have to see that. It's because of each wanting the benefits of the other, while keeping the closest scrutiny possible. Here's to honorable enemies. I know it's not New Year's Day by your calendar, but I'll wish you a great year starting today anyway.

--------------------
Liang's response:
There is a saying in America, "If you can't beat it then join it." As America will find it cannot beat China and that China will ultimately be many times stronger than it is, it will join China for the benefit of both. What the West in general and America in particular have seen of China are mostly in movies which give a totally false understanding of what China really is. Currently, the white Americans like everybody else see China as a weak and despicable country and think America is too good for China. But as China rises it will inevitably reveal itself as a powerful country and the richest people. Then sentiment will change and America will be happy to be China's friend. And as China gear up in some 20 years or so to go to Mars, America will be only too happy to get a birth on the Chinese spaceship. Until then the best wishes to you in the new year of 2013 of the West and a happy new year of 4710 of China.

quasi44
12/27/12 at 2:50 pm

@Liang1a; The existing station is already outmoded. It's just not robust enough. Yes, China could have infused it with cash. But I don't think it was seriously contemplated.
If it were so, then why didn't China just offer to buy it when Obama wanted to de-orbit it?
--------------------------------
You are joking? right? Even if we offer a stratospheric price, dont you think the answer is going to be something like "get lost!"
HuaWei can not buy some outdated assets from 3Leaf!

You have no idea about what you are talking about.

WZZM wrote:

01/14/13 at 6:55 am

quasi44
12/27/12 at 2:50 pm
@Liang1a; The existing station is already outmoded. It's just not robust enough. Yes, China could have infused it with cash. But I don't think it was seriously contemplated.
If it were so, then why didn't China just offer to buy it when Obama wanted to de-orbit it?
--------------------------------
You are joking? right? Even if we offer a stratospheric price, dont you think the answer is going to be something like "get lost!"
HuaWei can not buy some outdated assets from 3Leaf!

You have no idea about what you are talking about.
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
I don't know what you mean? Are you saying I'm joking because I think China should have offered to buy the ISS? If so, then please know that it is not I who first made the suggestion that China should offer to buy the ISS. It was quasi44 who sugested it. Please go back and read the prior posts.

My reply to quasi44 is that there is no point for China to just buy the ISS because it is obsolete and China wants to build its own space station anyway for practical experience and for exclusive ownership without being constrained by foreign partners. I made the point that the only reason for China to want to join the ISS is for friendship and goodwill and not for the ISS itself. I quote my reply to quasi44 below:

"As to buying the ISS, there is no point for China to just buy it. Obviously, China wanted to build its own space station and own it exclusively. The building process will also allow Chinese engineers to accumulate experience for other space projects that can be applied to the moon or Mars and beyond. I think China wanted to join the ISS as a gesture of goodwill and friendship which America rejected."

..

Cyback of Prexus
It's all going be a moot point if the heat keeps rising from climate change. Last year was the hottest on record for the US. And with record droughts and the loss of major crops last year, I think we should all worry about how to solve that problem before it goes to the point where we can do nothing about it.If we don't it won't matter who has what, and who would care if you were just trying to survive.
With all this money being spent on weapons we could probably reverse climate change, or at least control it, but for all our smarts we as a species are really dumb. When the most intelligent people on the planet all say the same thing, that we are quickly getting to the point of no return we should not worry about the fiscal cliff, what will that matter if we are all fried? I do think we should invest heavily in space travel, we need to get off this rock or mankind will disappear for good. No matter if is from warfare or climate change, it all comes to the same point.

interesting posts. it takes a while to read all those comments.
US is an undoubtable superpower ever since the end of the Cold War. with the fall of USSR, US had been leading democratic countries ever since.in fact, US get so familiar with the title of "superpower" that she is still acting as the boss of her influences while other democratic countries focused more on self-developement that promotes the strength of their nations, such as those European countries.
when other countries stand by and watch how events in South Asian Sea aggravates,US acts actively on the other side of the Earth, containing china's developement. is it necessary when no actual conflicts nor casualities were found made during the South China Sea regional conflicts? when china advocates peaceful resolution through diplomacy and assertive policy? when in truth, the territorial origin can be justified by histoy? when the core value in demoracy was freedom and when the freedom of developement was infringed upon? Communist China differs from USSR in various aspects, one of the most important principle is that Communist china wants self-developement rather than a world working class revolution.there are many problems within china: human rights, single-child policy, censorship etc. i have to admit that China has long and hard way ahead; nonetheless, i think china will ultimately progress toward a gradual transition to democracy.in fact, i really do think democracy rest in the core of human desire. and it will take time for china to find her path.

in addition, i think what US's policy of containing china is somewhat similar to the Treaty of Versailles after the WW1, which sanctioned Germany severely and induced nationalistic sentiment among German people. what chinese people's opinion about US is different from those in the western world. but there is a universal sentiment of nationalism rooted in human nature, which is marked by collective feeling(whatever it is called).

running out of time...

now i have time...

there are already massive protest on South Asia Sea and related issues, though it is such a rare occasion in Communist states...if US pressured too hard, the relation between china and US will not turn to a desirable direction.
so i think US should not interfere with china and other SE asian countries affairs as long as the conflicts are right on the diplomatic table, for these countries will solve the problems by themself.

the following case i found was somehow conflicting. john stuart mill's harm principle, which was practiced among many western world ideologies, stated that the actions of individuals should only be limited to prevent harm to other individuals.
the sole end which man(racist)-kind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their numbers, is self-protection. that the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. (and most importantly)his own good, either physical of moral,is not sufficient warrant!!!(from wikipedia)
US's interference with china cannot be justified. because US does not have any threat or harm being done by china. and US's interference in china's developement soley because
" pivot interest" which can not be justified by the principle stated above

running out of time...

Liang:
really, i have live in Beijing half my life, and i did not find it very clean. and if you go down to towns or villages, the trash is actually all over the streets. but this is an inevitable process experienced by many industrialized countries in the past.however, i have the confidence to believe it will improve in some time.

about american's opinion on US's containment:
because you are an american, of course you want a strong US and thus a weaker competitor. but this thought is very practical and common. i as a chinese want a stronger china, some Russian want a strong Russia. i even want a better canada just because i have lived in canada for some time.
however, US's intervention, is not a part of free competition that is so much stressed in capitalist principles. states,just like companies in a free economy, can develope and enhance themselves through competition, thus resulting numerous impetus that pushes the whole world forward.look at how the world changed in 20th century and you will see that competition brought changes and improvements even though the competition at that time was not free of force. in 21th century, the world will be a peaceful arena of competition for developement if force and terror(threat), like us's containment, can be reduced as much as possible.

some say that china is also a source of force and terror(threat), such as china's frequent participation in UN peace missions by naval fleets? or china's emphasis on military strength, which could clearly see as an effort to compete?

my points might not be accurate or ,in the future, turn out to be completely wrong and shortsighted. i just want to present some differing from the typical "American style" of thinking.

all hail the freedom of speech.

hopefully this would not be censured, or done bad to me in any aspects....

6746690 wrote:

01/18/13 at 3:08 pm

Liang:
really, i have live in Beijing half my life, and i did not find it very clean. and if you go down to towns or villages, the trash is actually all over the streets. but this is an inevitable process experienced by many industrialized countries in the past.however, i have the confidence to believe it will improve in some time.
-------------------------------------

I have never had the pleasure of living in Beijing but I have lived in or visited many foreign countries. I can tell you they are not all very clean. Some cities in America are very clean but most have some areas within each city that are very dirty. These are the slums or ghettos where poor peoples mostly minorities live. I think you might have heard of the expression "the wrong side of the track".

From time to time, there would be some kind of protest against low wages in the US during which the garbage collectors would walk off their jobs and garbage would accumulate for weeks stinking up the entire cities such as San Francisco and New York.

China is still growing. Hopefully, as the wealth and educational level of China increase the Chinese people will become more demanding of higher level of cleanliness that would promote a higher quality of life and health.


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