That the Chevy Volt exists at all is something of a miracle. The project, which was announced at the Detroit Auto Show nearly four years ago and goes into production next month, has survived two CEO shakeups, major bankruptcy, and an unprecedented rescue by the Federal government. For every wave of goodwill, the Volt has endured a backlash of bile and skepticism. By now, the car has become a political football, a proxy for anger over the bailout of GM and Chrysler and a symbol of the future of the American auto industry. That’s a lot of baggage for a compact car to carry. And it’s a remarkable amount of baggage to accumulate before anyone even knew how the finished car would drive.
Now, after several hours and nearly 200 miles driving and riding in saleable Volts, we know how the finished product drives. And the news is very good.
The Volt launches from a stop with a punch that makes the car feel faster than its 0-to-60 time of 8.8 seconds would suggest. Around town it is solid, silent, and quick. At 85 mph it feels unshakeable, with plenty of passing power to spare. (Top speed is limited to 100 mph.) It is not light by any stretch, but its low center of gravity (which comes the 400-pound lithium-ion battery situated underneath the center console and back seat) makes it feel nimble. We squealed the tires on hard turns a few times, but never did it start to slide. Steering is silky and precise.
The loaded Volt is comfortable and pleasant to sit in, with soft leather seats, a leather-wrapped steering wheel, a sophisticated touch-screen navigation system (which also offers a vast amount of data about your driving efficiency), rear backup camera, seat warmers, cruise control, Bluetooth, iPod connectivity, and the rest of the usual upgrade amenities. It’s not spacious, but it doesn’t feel cramped; I spent my time in the car with two other sub-six-foot adults, and I never heard anyone complain about legroom, even in the back.
So GM has succeeded in making the Volt a perfectly solid, nicely appointed production car, never glitchy or cut-rate or compromised in any way. Good. For a car that starts at $41,500, this level of fit and finish should be the minimum.
But the Volt, of course, is not just any production car. Let’s start with the pure-electric (EV) mode. GM long said that the Volt would get 40 miles of gas-free driving on a full charge of its 16 kilowatt-hour battery. They recently replaced the number “40” with a range of 25 to 50 miles, and after spending time in the car I see why. The first leg of my trip was a 45.9-mile drive through the Detroit suburbs—no highway driving, many stoplights, an average speed limit of 45 mph. I made a reasonable effort to drive efficiently, which the Volt turns into a subtle and surprisingly compelling game; when the green bouncing ball that sits just below eye level is sitting still in the middle of a digital column, you’re doing well. And you don’t have to drive like a hypermiler to do well: Just don’t floor it from a stop, and let the regenerative braking (which is all but imperceptible and starts as soon as you lift your foot off the throttle) do as much of the deceleration work as possible. I made the 45-mile drive in pure electric mode with 6 miles left on the battery meter,. The next day, on the first leg of a 155.7-mile route, we did several miles of 80-plus-mph freeway driving, switched it for several miles to “sport” mode and generally tried to push it as much as we could given that we were driving in town, and we got a little over 37 miles of all-electric range.
After that, the battery was “customer empty”—the Volt’s software only allows it to use 65 percent of the battery’s capacity, a conservative decision meant to keep the battery running well for the extent of its eight-year, 100,000-mile warranty. At this point, the 1.4-liter, four-cylinder internal combustion starts up, to generate electricity for the battery. Initially, the transition between modes is seamless. You don’t hear or feel it as much as you suspect that that the gas engine is running.Drive for a while in charge-sustaining mode, however, and you’ll eventually hear the RPMs rise, most likely under heavy acceleration. It’s a strange sensation, because the link between the movement of your foot and the sound of the engine is correlated but indirect—it’s muted and delayed. The car “leads with the battery,” meaning that even in charge-sustaining mode, the electric motor draws electricity from the battery; the engine then follows to replenish those electrons. In other words, when you punch the throttle from a complete stop, you’ll get to 20 mph on battery power alone, and then you’ll hear the engine rev up to a little over 3,000 rpm, but it’s not the direct relationship between engine noise and foot action that we’re accustomed to: The engine has a mind of its own, a software system that runs it as needed to supply electricity.
Charge-sustaining mode exposes one of the car’s few disappointments: weaker-than-expected gas mileage once the battery is down. I had long expected this mode to deliver some 50 mpg on average, and it’s possible to get there, but you have to earn it. My co-driver did a 10-mile stretch of aggressive hypermiling—windows up, no AC, slooooow acceleration, coasting whenever possible—and got above 51 mpg. Driving normally, I got 37.1 mpg over a 38-mile stretch that included some two-lane highway.
But these mid-30s mpg figures are misleading on their own. Remember, the first 40 or so miles come gas-free. If you drive 40 or so miles a day during the work week and charge the battery completely every night, you could theoretically never use gasoline unless you take the Volt on a longer trip.
Aside from its steep price (primarily due of the great expense of its massive lithium-ion battery pack) the thing about the Volt that has disappointed people the most is this week’s revelation that, in certain circumstances, the gas engine can, along with the electric motor, mechanically couple to the gears that drive the wheels.
Here’s how it works: In charge-sustaining mode, at 70 mph or above, the gasoline engine—which normally powers a second, smaller electric motor that acts like a generator—can connect to the gearset that drives the wheels. Doing so allows the larger, primary electric motor (which always turns the wheels, in all modes) to run at lower RPMs. At high speeds, with the battery depleted, this arrangement is 10-15 percent more efficient, and efficiency is, after all, the whole point of the Volt.
I’m not going to chase down every executive statement over the years on the nature of the powertrain and parse them to figure out whether GM “lied” (which is the charge that has spread across the Web this week), or whether they were technically always telling the truth (which is what GM maintains). And the reason is simply that I don’t care. Yes, you can argue that GM was misleading about the true nature of one of the Volt powertrain’s four operating modes. GM’s defense is that they’ve been waiting on the patent to clear on the technology and couldn’t talk about it for competitive reasons. Whatever. This strikes me as an esoteric non-issue that in no way changes what really matters, which is the performance of the car. And the Volt was never going to pass the electric-car purity test—since the very beginning we’ve known that it would have a gas engine on board.
During my test drive, my copilot and I tried repeatedly to feel or hear any difference in the car’s performance in charge-sustaining mode above 70 mph. We couldn’t. This is an esoteric engineering matter that happens automatically, deep within the car.
At the end of our full-day drive, a GM rep shrewdly handed over the keys to a 2010 Prius, a car I had driven before and enjoyed. The Prius is roomier than the Volt, but as soon as I turned on the ignition and started moving, the gas engine loudly snapped on, making me long for the comparatively silent, gliding operation of the Volt. The steering felt stiff, the transitions between battery and parallel power jarring. The Prius, of course, is cheaper, but not radically so.
This points to the Volt’s biggest weakness: Its $41,000 base price tag. Even after the $7,500 federal tax credit, the Volt is for the kind of person who is willing to shell out for a four-passenger car that isn’t from Germany. The car is so pleasant to drive that I can’t imagine finding early adopters to be a problem. But after that, I’d like to see the Volt become available to the rest of us. Which is why we should hope for a kind of EV arms race, for a significant drop in battery prices and a rapid expansion of plug-in infrastructure. Because after putting a couple dozen highway miles on a vehicle like the Volt, plenty of people simply won’t want to go back to a conventional car.
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The Volt will drive GM into another bankruptcy. It's way over priced for the rich only. Sort of like PC's when they first came out only the rich could afford them.
Yes, the price may well drop in the years ahead but that doesn't make buyers to happy since that means their cars will depreciate even faster than comparable auto's.
For my family, the Leaf makes the most sense with the Leaf being a 'working vehicle' to get to and from work and city errands. We have another 8-seat vehicle for family excursions, trips, and long commutes.
Sorry GM you blew it with the pricing when originally talk started about on this vehicle you had prices in the $33K to $40K and most of the interested parties were hoping for the former.
Lost hope in GM now. The sell the most over priced cars in the industry.
When are we going to see the commercial electric car instead of these gilded money bags on wheels. Im gonna guess that 85% of Americans wont buy a car over 20k MUCH LESS 40. Holy crap is no one gonna buy this. And those that do will be people who have lots of money, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT GAS MILEAGE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Why would you pay a base price of $41,000.00 for a Chevy Volt.. which is an average car.. other than being electric, there is nothing special about it. If you can afford this piece of crap, then you can afford the Tesla Model S, which not only out classes the Chevy Volt, it is literally better than it in every way and cost relatively the same. Popsci, I love you, but when there is clearly better vehicles on the market, why aren't you giving them as much spotlight? http://www.teslamotors.com/own?model=ms
I don't want to be "that guy" but typos, when spell check is readily available, just bother me:
" This strikes me as an esoteric non-issue that in NOW way changes what really matters"
"explansion" in the final paragraph.
@itseasyas123 Holy crap the Tesla Model S is "on the market"? You know the final price on the Model S too? Wow! What other EVs on "on the market" that I dont know about? Looks like you have the inside track on all these electric cars that I didnt know exist yet. Know of anything that wont leave me stranded possibly? Anything I can take on a road trip?
Nope, kinda what I thought.
to gizmowiz, to thor997, and to spiffster...
Calm down kids. It sounds expensive, but there is a $7500 tax credit from the Federal Government, so $41k becomes 33.5k. Also, for the guy who freaked out about the 'expensive' GM cars... Compared to which car company I wonder?... and Toyota sold the prius for a similar amount when it first surfaced. Toyota is still in business last time I checked... and To the dude who spoke of the Tesla model S... that's $56k starting... any other complaints easily researched and debunked?
The $41k base price doesn't bother me so much. Remember, this is just generation one. Admittedly, I'm not gonna buy one at that price, but think of how many hummers you saw on the road a couple of years ago. People will buy it. They just will. Which is good because when generation 3 of this vehicle rolls around the price just might be lower. The first time something is made, the price is high. We've seen so many products go from expensive to cheap. digital watches, vcr's, dvd player's, mp3 players, cdr/w's, dvdr/w's... I could go own forever. After a few generations, this model will settle to a new price. Now, add competition to the equation.
The fact that this car is on the market at all is a good thing, even if the initial price tag is too high, because competitors don't like feeling left out of a market. Now that the Volt is coming to market, competitors will believe that they 'have to' follow suit or be left behind.
One last thought. If this succeeds, any profit they make will justify more research. Hopefully that will lead to more efficient or faster charging batteries.
*crosses fingers for early adopters*
@Spiffster Yes, the model S is available in 2012 you trolling asshole. I bet you feel really good about yourself? Since this is the only way you are able to satisfy your lame excuse of an ego. I was only making it clear there will be much better vehicles around the same cost available. Thanks sir, you are a douche.
Ground Control supports your stand, Major Tom. Lots of vicious attacks are flying around against this vehicle and this company. That's fine; people who choose to blend the truth about something with their own imagination and then submit the resulting block of text as a sincere argument are easily spotted. They remain a mild irritant in issues like this... I think that goes for every forum, public and private.
This car is well designed, very pretty and full of first-run, incredibly expensive components. It will cost more than my 50mpg Metro but not using fuel, ever, is worth it to me. Soon, it will be worth it to everyone. It's an echo of our past in many subtle ways, and we can all pray it is a harbinger of our future. Have some faith, ye weary travelers. Really, go somewhere else if you come to bash the blood, sweat and bitter tears of thousands of sleepless engineers.
"Im gonna guess that 85% of Americans wont buy a car over 20k MUCH LESS 40."
What I can buy with my $41,500:
1) One BMW 335i with 300 hp.
2) Two Toyota Prius's (invoice)
3) Three loaded Toyota Yaris's (which get ~ same gas mileage on the highway after battery depleted on Volt)
4) Four Nissan Versa's (which also get about the same gas mileage for a depleted Volt).
5) Five Yamaha V-star Silverado's(950cc) motorcycles
6) Six Honda Shadow Spirit 750's or Harley Sportster 883 Low's motorcycles (which get better milegae)
7) A seven person cruise on Seven Seas Voyager 10 day cruise.
8) Eight CRF230L Honda dual sports (also get better mileage)
9) Nine Vespa LX150-e Mopeds (which get higher gas mileage by the way around 80 mpg)
10) Ten Honda Rebels (also get better mileage)
.......
82000) 82,000 Dunkin Donuts (a lifetime supply @ 3 per day per 75 year life expectancy)
Feel free to fill in the between 10 and 82,000!
Popular science is a little left wing everyone... so naturally they'd promote the volt... don't worry, its failure will waiver their confidence in Obama's product.
I can't wait till Google and Apple take over the EV market
I get an average 52 mpg's on my 70 mile commute each way (140 RT). With the volt I would save approx. .5 gallons each way if I charged at night and at work. With a price difference of more than 20k, out of the question. Toyota already has plans for plugins and full electric vehicles within a reasonable amount of time.
Volt's gasoline engine connects to wheels at speeds over 70 is not a simple matter!
Using the gasoline engine only to generate electricity and driving the wheels using just an electric motor is actually more efficient than driving the wheels from the gasoline engine directly. Because electric motors do not need transmission.
Also, because of enabling direct connection from the gasoline engine to the wheels, Volt's drive mechanism will be unnecessarily complex, which means higher cost to produce and more chances of breakdowns (which means higher maintenance costs than a pure electric vehicle).
@itseasyas123 and @Spiffster
#1 The Model S is speculated to be available in 2012, of course we hope it will be but there's no guarantee... So there's minimum of 2yr wait compared to Volt
#2 The Model S is priced at $57,500 and that's for entry level package w 160mi range battery pack. If you want 300mi battery pack it'll likely be $65,000+ range, which compared to $41K is not exactly the same money. (Excluding federal tax incentive of $7,500)
#3 Model S at 160mi range is just okay for me... same goes for Nissan Leaf at 100mi, you'll likely need more than one car if your going this route
#4 The Volt could lease for around $350/mo which is pretty darn good in my opinion... try leasing a Model S in 2012/2013 my guess is it'll be almost double that.
#5 The Volt is certainly not perfect... but it's not a crappy car either... I actually think it looks pretty good... everyone to themselves I'm just comparing apples to apples
Cheers,
CK
$350/month lease
I would advise everyone against purchasing the first model year of ANY automobile.
I'll happily wait until 2012 for the Tesla Model S.
Silly rabbits,
If GM were to have made the Volt in a manner that would have allowed for a price tag of say... $31,000. You know, with plain old interior styling, lack of options such as XM NavTraffic/Local Forecast, Keyless ignition/Remote vehicle start, Bluetooth/ Mobile application etc. etc. etc. (after all they do nothing to improve mileage), no LED lighting {exterior appeal} (who needs that with such a big battery) Every one would be bashing them with the "cheep" "crappy" or "POS" label.
What are Ford and Chrysler offering in comparison? No one is squeaking about them!
ooh yea, with the included "OnStar w/phone and Nav" you can notify the rescue crews to anybody "leafed" out in the cold when their batteries (including the Tesla, Fisker and any thing else) go dead. could be one of your flaky children who (couldn't afford the Volt) bought the "cheep" alternative.
There is no shortage of people how can afford almost any car they want and look to different thing for satisfaction. Like a well equipped car that gives that quality ride of personal success with a warm fuzzy (environmental) feeling.
Quit bashing (at least until you test drive one), what milestones has you achieved lately?
Major Tom: Let's get the facts straight about the Prius pricing. To answer "there is a $7500 tax credit from the Federal Government, so $41k becomes 33.5k... Toyota sold the prius for a similar amount when it first surfaced. "
No, the 2001 Prius was the first gen sold in the US and had an MSRP of $19,995. That's hell of a lot less than $33.5K. A current gen 2010 Prius MSRPs starting at $22,800.
gizmowiz: So you plan to have two cars,the Leaf and an 8 passenger vehicle,so you can commute to work in the Leaf,and go on extended drives in the 8 passenger car.Did it not occur to you that you are likely spending quite a bit more than the 41K price for the Volt with your two cars?
I have a 2005 Honda Accord V6 that gets 30MPG, that is the actual average mileage over the past 60,000 miles (mostly highway), computed from fuel receipts and the odometer reading, so I feel comfortable using that for my personal calculations.
The Chevy Volt gets the first 40 miles on electricity - that seems to be the big point that supporters want us to remember. So that is equal to 1.33 gallons of gas in my Accord, or about $4.00 worth of gas (at $3 per gallon). The Volt has a 16kWh battery, that Chevy says should not drain lower than 20% capacity. So let's say it takes 13kWh out of the battery to go that 40 miles. Due to charging inefficiencies, it will probably take 16kWh from the grid, to replace the 13kWh in the batteries.
So let's see how much money it really saves me to drive a Volt:
I live in Northern California, where this car is going on sale first - and PGE is the big utility for most out here. I currently pay an average of .20 per kWh from PGE over the course of a billing cycle. At first glance, you would think that means it will cost me $3.20 to recharge the Volt. That means I save 80 cents per VOLT charging cycle - big WHOOP!!!
However, we are on a tiered usage rate system as PGE customers. That means my price per kWh goes up as the month goes along and I use more power - the more I use the more I pay and the faster I get into the higher priced rate tiers. The highest priced tier is .40 per kWh.
I have a spreadsheet model which easily allows me to factor in charging a CHEVY VOLT, and see the impact it will have on my overall electric bill, and my average kWh price - here is what I find:
Based on my last month (September 2010) PGE bill, I paid an average of .19 per kWh. I used an average of 34kWh per day. If I had used an extra 16kWh per day to charge a VOLT (almost 50% more power than my family normally uses) for 5 days per week (figuring workdays only), I would have paid an average of .25 per kWh. That means by charging a Chevy Volt in my garage, I have paid more for *ALL* of my household electricity because I move through the rate pricing tiers faster. My electric bill would have been $144 more, for 22 days worth of Chevy Volt driving ~40 miles per day on electricity. That means I paid $6.54 per ~40 miles of electric travel, which is WAY MORE (65% MORE!!) than I currently pay driving my Accord 40 miles on gas.
EDIT: This PopSci article claims that only 65% of the battery is used to go the ~40 miles. That means it uses only 10.4kWh from the batteries, and let's assume it takes 13kWh from the grid to recharge. Plugging these figures into my argument above, it would have cost me $116 more on my electric bill, for 22 days of electric only driving, which works out to $5.27 per 40 mile electric trip - still way more than a V6 Accord at $4 per 40 mile trip.
Forget the fact that maintenance will be way more and only available at the dealer for the foreseeable future; forget that replacement batteries are $10K and no one wants your used Volt without new batteries; forget that you may find yourself climbing hills at a max of 40MPH if you travel in the foothills and have a lot of hills to climb; forget that basic comfort features like the radio, heater or the air conditioner will substantially reduce your electric only range.
The bottom line is that for nearly anyone who is a PGE customer - which is a great deal of CA residents where this thing is going on sale soon - driving the VOLT even 40 miles per day and never touching the gas tank, will still cost you MORE MONEY PER TRIP than even a 2005 V6 Accord. Forget about competing with a Prius or a TDI Volkswagon diesel - there is no comparison.
Unless you get your electricity for free or nearly so, and only drive 40 miles per 24 hours (assuming an overnight charge) it doesn't begin to pen out... You will pay more, from beginning to end, and everywhere in between - for the 'privilege' of driving Gov't Motors newest sham.
**Note that my estimates of the power required to recharge the VOLT from the grid are very simple estimates from the information that is currently available. WHY HASN'T ANYONE OFFERED INFORMATION ON REAL WORLD RECHARGE TIMES AND REAL WORLD POWER CONSUMPTION FOR THE CHARGER !????!?? I cannot believe that not ONE SINGLE RESPONSIBLE REVIEWER has analyzed the current draw for the charger. It's as if everyone thinks the cost of electricity and the amount required to recharge the VOLT is not a factor, like it grows on trees and doesn't cost a dime - and certainly doesn't emit carbon. Yeah right...
The fundamental cool thing about the VOLT was always that it was supposed to be a true series hybrid. The battery storage was good, but incidental.
By building a car that has a gas engine driving a generatory filling a battery driving an electric motor, you get:
> Reduced mechanical complexity (no transmission) in exchange for using 'higher reliability' electronics.
> Improved efficiency / reduced mechanical complexity by optimizing the engine / generator combination instead of having to build something that can handle many different torques.
> An opportunity to apply a simple regenerative braking solution.
VOLT tosses these advantages mostly out the window by mechanically coupling the gas engine to the electric drive motor. This is disappointing and sad. At least it has some version of regenerative braking.
So, the VOLT is an expensive nice higher mpg four seater car that has solved the EV extended range problem by giving up 'most every other advantage... :(
The big ancient car companies just don't want to give up building and perpetually servicing internal combustion engines and their transmissions. It is such a major part of their ecosystem that "let's build an electric car' sounds like 'let's shut down our business' to them. They all keep trying to stuff ICE engines and some sort of non-electric drive train back into their EVs.
I keep expecting someone to build a cool little gas powered generator on a trailer that 100% Electric Vehicle owners can rent, plug into and drag behind their vehicle to charge while driving on those occasional 1,000 mile cross country trips....
The 8 passenger car is a Honda Pilot and can tow my single axle dump trailer. Try that with a Volt! A Volt won't haul 8 passengers with their luggage either. I never expected to compare a single Volt with 2 cars just that a Volt plus for example an SUV (assuming a 2 car normal family). We don't need the Volt to go long distance. Same goes for a plug in hybrid Prius which is basically the same as the Volt (they both are plug in hybrids as BOTH, due to GM's big lie, do power the wheels directly at SOME time).
But the Leaf does the trick locally for all transportation unless we need to haul the trailer or pickup large items (very large items as the hatchback Leaf is quite capable by itself compared to the Volt which is not a hatchback).
Then too the Volt is more complex with electrical and gas propulsion which is going to have more mechanical problems that a purely electric vehicle. Ditto with the Prius (which I have now and will be trading in on the Leaf).
And that $7500 rebate? You won't get that unless you paid at least that much in taxes. So you need quite a big income in order to qualify for the full $7500. Ditto for state rebates as well. You don't get the full $7500 if you don't have that much in taxes due.
A BMW 335i with 300 hp is a darn good vehicle too and priced the same as the Volt and I bet you it will outlast the Volt by a good margin with far fewer problems as reported by owners.
And comparing a Volt with a Prius is a joke since the Prius cost about half as much and gets better gas mileage than the Volt when it's on gasoline power (and it's a bigger car too).
In addition--the rebate is NOT guaranteed since you have to make enough to pay $7500 in taxes in order to get the $7500 rebate. The average American doesn't make enough ($44,389 @ 2007) to qualify for the full rebate (source: wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States).
In fact, only the top 12% of Americans qualify by income to get the full $7500 rebate!!!!! Unless their cheating on their taxes!
@ stealth916
The avg American pay 13 cents / kilowatt hr, which translates to less than $1.75 to recharge. If you recharge after 7pm in many areas you'll save even more... You're getting ripped off by your utility company :)
With the Volt app, you can schedule your charges to commence at night after 7pm from your Apple/Android smartphone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0MoBH6A4PY
CK
Which among the car models is the most environmental friendly? This the debate as Chevy Volt is revealed. The Chevy Volt is soon to be released. The opening round of Chevy Volt reviews are a mixed bag. There is some strong initial criticism, and some strong compliment. The vehicle is the first entry into the hybrid car and also electric vehicle industry by General Motors. For some time, the Chevy Volt has been one of the most hotly awaited automobiles in recent memory. The presence of a gas motor within the Volt makes it not a true electric vehicle to many. GM disagrees. The automaker contends that is a true electric auto, but it has a built in range extender.
Why does it have to be that expensive? Because of the engineering that went into it? Or management costs... http://www.tendances-de-mode.com/en/
Why has no-one mentioned the fact that if you live within 20 miles of where you work, your fuel bills are zero? That's £200 per month for me or $350 per month to you Yanks. If you had the car for say 5 years = £21000 + $7500 dollar tax break, giving you a huge saving, granted there will be a bigger electricity bill.
Cleverly priced if your clever enough to work it out. Gizmowiz you have sh*t for brains.
@h8tow8ck - I'm not alone in getting ripped off by PGE. They have anywhere from 5M to 15M customers. And even though we have smart meters, we do not have peak/off peak pricing with PGE - so it doesn't matter what time of day you use electricity. There is no additional opportunity to save money using PGE by charging at night.
Also the rates I used for my example are SUMMER RATES, where we have more of a daily allowance for energy use. In the WINTER, we get less allowance, so we move into the high priced rate tiers EVEN FASTER. that means in the Winter, a PGE customer will pay even more for the privilege of driving 40 miles without the engine running.
There is no question that PGE rates are at least 30% higher, usually way more than that - than the national average. After emerging from a bankruptcy in 2004, they forced a rate hike on all their customers that will last through at least 2012. I'm sure their lobbyists are right now working to make sure we pay more well past 2012.
But if you think your rates can't go that high, think again. With Obama and the EPA stifling the production of coal, the Greenies hollering for more alternate energy, demand for electricity going up not down, no major nuclear or hydro projects being approved, and the Electrics having way more lobbyists than you or I, you can bet your rates are going to go up eventually too. Consider what we pay in CA - a sneak preview of what could happen if we don't take our country back from professional politicians and special interests.
@jamesbrett12 - clearly you have never paid an electric bill. Your fuel bills are not zero even if you never stop at a gas station. Electricity costs money. This thing uses electricity, a lot of it. In fact at 60MPH, assuming the car runs 40 miles on electricity, you will have used more electricity in 40 minutes, than a large, occupied family home will use in 12 hours. That is not a 'zero' fuel bill.
The least they could do is pair it with a small Diesel or something and perhaps add a few solar cells for parking lot charging. I'm baffled why anyone would spend so much for so little (if not a negative) benefit. You can get a standard Diesel with more range similar power and better mileage for a lot cheaper.
While the Volt may be initially expensive, the maintenance cost over the life of the car will be a small fraction of that for gas only cars. If one used it only for commuting to work and never used the gas engine, then the miantenance cost is zero. Electric motores need almost no work done on them their entire life and can for hour upon hour with no rest. This is why GM destroyed the EV1 electric cares they made a few years ago, no maintenance. Think of it, no oil changes, no timing belts, no blown head gaskets, no freezing up in the winter or overheating in the summer. That electric cars are not further along in their development to the point where they are very inexpesive to acquire speaks to the way th US is falling behind to Europe and Asia in a lot of technical areas.
Umm... Yea ....ok... I personally wouldnt give GM another dime of my money let alone 41k for a battery operated POS! Green isnt just for the rich. The fact that they even had the balls to put this car on the market shows just how wrong the government was to bail them out. The Volt also proves just how the politics in this country runs. Its not who ya know its who ya blow!
What does one do for cockpit heat during the winter? The internal combustion engine offers its waste heat for this purpose. I would think that an electric heater would place an unacceptably severe added burden on the battery of the Volt.
Crawl back under the rock Hog.
@itseasyas123 2012 does not constitute "on the market". Whats with the all the insults? Im a troll? I guess to an 8 year old it would appear that way. Once you get a little older you will realize that meaningless comments based purely on speculation and false information are typically the musings of a die-hard troll such as yourself.
stealth916 is right on the money!
But wait, the fun hasn't even started yet. You know what you get when you plug in 3 Volts of Leafs on one block? In most urban areas today you will get a blown transformer for the neighborhood. In my area the transformers with a 30 year life are now 42. The grid will not handle many at all. To those who dream of having 80% of our cars electric, all I can say is; Enjoy the dream. Each 5% of autos converted to electricity require about a 3% increase in electricity generation. The current plan is to expand generation capacity at a rate of 3%. Even charging off hours, the limit is low. Power plants don't just pop up over night.
Five or ten years from now, this is going to make ethanol look like a smart fuel.
electric38
3 related ideas. This one uses solar assisted manufacturing plant. Lots of robotics involved in assembly.
http://www.cleanfleetreport.com/renewables/ford-focus-electric-car-plugin-hybrid/
Possible electric car under $10,000
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/09/post_697.html
Solar carports can be used in some areas to trickle charge a swappable battery.
http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/11-charging-stations-designed-to-refuel-evs-with-renewable-energy/
@stealth916
Curious, do you know how many Kwh entail charging the Volt's LI Battery? Because I honestly dont.
I'm right there with you, I've dealt with an EXTREMELY expensive summer from PG&E ($500-$600/ month between July and now). But I do believe that you may be slightly exaggerating the amount of Kwh it takes to fully charge that battery.
with that said, I would much rather support an American auto industry rather than put dollars into a non-American vehicles and company... Lets be honest here... an economic recovery in this country starts with the American consumer buy American products.
@jaydub totally agree, for instance - the ford fiesta gets EPA estimated 29/40, city/highway - for the 6speed automatic for 15065 with destination fee. That's better then any other car in it's class including yaris, fit, and versa.
@stealth19
Stealth should do a bit more research before trying to argue his case. The Volt does NOT use 13 kilowatthours in charge depleting mode. It uses 50% of its 16kwhr capacity battery pack, not 65%. It uses roughly the middle portion - it never depletes to empty nor fills the pack to full.
The average cost of electricity is nowhere near the 19 cents he is paying, I pay 11 cents and folks in Indiana
and elsewhere a lot less. California, as in so many other ways, is out of the question. Everthing's crazy in that bankrupt state. Nor does it take 16kwhrs from the grid to replace those phantom 13kwhrs that stealth mistakenly assumes are available for charge depleting mode. "Charging inefficiencies" are not even remotely close to the figures he's throwing around,and they vary depending upon rate of charge, and will almost certainly be quite low since the Volts will undoubtedly be recharged overnite at low voltages. And at lower rates in most places, since we're talking offpeak hours. But let's assume the worst (excluding goofy California) and assume that we live in a fantasy world where it requires 13 kwhrs to bring the Volt batteries up to "customer full" level. It's been amply demonstrated that the Volt CAN achieve 50 plus miles, but, again, let's assume 40 miles. Let's also assume the worst - that my utility charges full peakhour prices. I will use 13 kwhrs, costing 143 cents to travel 40 miles. My 2004 Buick Regal averages 24 MPG and costs 500 cents for that 40 mile trip. Thus, in the worst case the Volt fuel costs are 1/4th that of gasoline. Stealth also fails miserably in predicting the future, one in which he claims that when the batteries are "worn out" they 1) will be of no value, and 2) will cost a fortune to replace. I think he quoted $10K per battery pack. That figure is way high, and the "worn out batteries " aren't actually worn out. You could still use it to run the car, or sell it to utility companies, who are signed up to buy them, since they retain 80% of their original capacity. They are not "worn out." Stealth also fails to see the obvious - battery prices have fallen dramatically since the Volt program began, with prices now half what they were originally, and they will continue to drop as mass production gets in full force. Nor will those $3 gas prices likely stay low. Peak oil is a reality and prices will soar once the economy gets back on track. While the Volt certainly is a complicated design, so is the obsolete internal combustion engine. And the Volt will seldom use its old-timey ICE. An electric car is infinitely more reliable and longer lived, with lower maintenence than anything that contains an ICE. It is simply far more efficient. And it can use electricity produced any old way - solar, nuclear, etc. etc. It is totally flexible and a far, far simpler design, requiring thousands fewer parts and having but a few points of failure. And to claim his Accord is comparable in quality to the Volt is flat out nonsense. Given a choice, no one would go for his car.
I agree with Jaydub.
With the exception of a Tesla which will eventually leave you with half it's original mileage after a couple years, the rest of these alternatives (especially Jizmowiz'z list) are all foreign vehicles. For all the people attacking GM, GM failed because Americans can't support the domestic economy worth a crap. They've been putting out perfectly fine cars for over a decade. It was appropriate to bail out GM after everyone decided to buy Hondas and Toyotas. Finally you all will pay for what you should have paid for from the beginning even if it is government induced.
GM is taking a risky route putting it's money behind this car when it's hurting like this, but morally it's the high road. From what the article states (and I doubt any one of you have driven a Volt yet) it's a high quality car and those of us who are Americans should be proud that GM turned out a car that smacks down the foreign crap in terms of quality.
My bias is a little extreme because I wouldn't be caught dead behind the wheel of a Honda or Toyota, but have a little bit of patriotism for once. Just a smidgen.
@jaydub and anyone else who argues the numbers of kWh used:
admittedly I am speculating, because we don't have data from any real reviewers - they all want to blow smoke up your rear and tell you how nice that 40 mi at a time drive was. No one wants to talk about real world charge times, or the kWh from the grid required to charge it back to full capacity from the cutoff level. Everyone just quotes the GM party line - "oh, it only costs $1.80 to recharge" - that is *useless* information in a country with widely disparate electric rates and rate structures.
We know the batteries are 16kWh in capacity. They use MORE THAN 50% capacity to cutoff, contrary to what others like @thebike45 says. No one in their right mind would put a $10k battery system in a car to only use half the capacity - period, end of story. What a waste of space, weight and money that would be.
I have seen figures for the low charge cutoff to be either 20% of capacity, or 35% of capacity, such as this article we are all commenting on says - just read the article.
So let's assume it uses 65% of capacity like this PopSci article says, that makes it 10.4kWh used to the 35% cutoff.
So for just conversation's sake, using that figure - you have to put back into the battery 10.4kWh to get back to 100% capacity. There is no charging technology that I know of that is 100% efficient. A good deal of energy during a charge will be wasted to heat and other losses converting it from AC to DC, wire resistance etc. So we can safely assume that putting 10.4kWh into a battery, will take MORE than 10.4kWh from the grid. How much more is the other serious question we want answered. I used 13kWh - I don't think I am far off. That assumes the charging process is 80% efficient - is that unrealistic, or can we call it good enough for conversation's sake?
You can't blame CA customers for paying what we do for electricity - we have no choice. PGE is a monopoly. Anyone doubting my figures for electrical prices need only Google "PGE TARIFF". The first search result will take you directly to the tariff book on the PGE website.
Since CA is one of the very few markets that this vehicle is going on sale initially, and since CA is one of the most populated states in the country, accounting for at least 12% of the total US population, and since a majority of CA residents are on PGE - I feel this is absolutely a relevant discussion.
You may not like that these numbers are real - but don't blame the messenger. You may think your rates will always be below those of CA residents, but I wouldn't bank on that.
Got to the love the last guys comment. If you're going to argue that something will bankrupt a company, try not to compare it to the most innovative, pervasive, profitable invention of the last millenium. If Volt = the PC, then the Volt is better than i thought.
The volt is not the complete answer but rather a step in the right direction. The only way for this technology to mature is for it to be accepted by the consumers to point where it becomes profitable to the manufactures. As with any technology, it's usually a design by iteration process. The EV market has the misfortune of being compared to a mature market, i.e gas powered vehicles.
Think about cell phones when they first came out. They were expensive to buy; expensive to use; the infrastructure was not place to support it's use everywhere; call quality was poor compared to land lines; there were no other features beside the phone; usage was not as convenient (you had to open it, raise the antenna, dial the number and push send - no hands free); we had to change the way we used the phone (watching minutes and battery levels); only the "rich" could afford them. They were not very well received and were always compared to land lines. Yet people saw the potential.
Consumers began to adopt this new technology and the manufactures invested big time in r&d to make their phones better than the competition. The result is a market saturated with phones that do more than we could have ever imagined.
The Volt, as good (or bad) as it may be received today, it will probably end up in the back draw of the EV market like my old Motorola gray flip phone. We will wonder how anyone ever used those things. But we won't get there until we start taking these first steps.
If all you do with a car is hobby arround town in it, and are going to have a second vehicle dedicated to long distance travel, then the Volt has nothing for you. Buy a true EV and a normal ICE for trips.
If all you do with a car is take long trips, like the person with the RIDICULOUS 140 mile round trip communte, then the Volt has nothing for you. Buy a normal car with a high MPH (hybrid or ICE).
If you typically commute less than 40 miles in a, and the longest trip you take is the 75 miles to see your parents for the holidays, then the Volt is not for you. A 160 mile range EV will cover your needs, even in winter.
If you typically commute less than 50 miles a day and occasionally take trips over 100 miles away, and do not want to fund two vehicles, then the Volt becomes an attractive offer.
My wife commutes 22 miles to work each day (44 round trip). She would only burn gas a trickle of gas, primarely when she had extra errands to run. The gas savings would amount to around $100 a month. My average electric bill for a 2200 square foot house is $125. Factoring in recharge cost, we would still have over $60 a month ($720 a year).
No, that is not enough to justify the cost, but if cost is a concern, and you are buying any car new, you are an idiot. We have 3 cars for the two of us, spent $8,500 TOTAL on all three of them, and two of them get @30 mpg (the truck is around 18mpg). Noone who puts money over ecological impact will buy anything EV or Hybrid this decade or the next.
Many of the comments here are what I expected. At first I was upset to hear that the Volt has a mechanical linkage to the drive wheels but after hearing it increases efficiency I can live with it. Most of the hate here are from Honda and Toyota owners, they hate anything American and would love just to piss on the ashes of companies like GM or Ford. I come from a family that drove Toyota's then Honda's for years but now we're switching over to Ford's just because the reliability and cost to owner are way over-rated on imports. The Toyota that was in the family left use stranded 2-3 times in it's short 60k mile ownership, and the Honda's cost our family several thousand dollars in repairs over the 98k miles we had the first one.
Just from that snug-superior attitude from owners and the over-rated reliability I will never own another import for the rest of my life. Will I buy a Volt? No, it cost too much but in the coming generations the price will come down and the capabilities will go up then it will be up for consideration since I need a fuel efficient commuter vehicle. For now GM/Ford sell fuel efficient, affordable, well built and well equipped vehicles in the Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, Ford Fiesta, and upcoming Chevy Aveo. If those vehicles don't meet your needs for a fuel efficient commuter then it's quite obvious you're a shill for the imports.
I've got one question, will every Chevy dealership have staff trained on repairing and maintaining the Volt? I mean, you can't exactly go down to your local auto parts store and service these things yourself can you? I only ask because I noticed quite a few people on the boards talking about the Tesla and as far as I can tell you would have to get the car to a service center for repairs. Living in a place like Orlando, FL the closest repair facility is 200+ miles away. As an owner I guess I could pay for a mobile specialist to come look at the car, but according to Tesla's site they charge $1 per mile (min $100) before they look at the thing. As a point of mass market appeal, which was Chevy’s goal with the Volt, dropping the car off at your local Chevy dealer is a whole lot easier than paying for a tow or mobile service to take a look at your car. Maybe by 2012 they will have a better infrastructure for real world customer service issues, but I have a feeling Toyota, Chevy, and Nissan will still be decades ahead of them in that arena. Before completely shooting this Volt down, think about real world application.
An easy way to drop the price would be to design a straight electric car and add a gas engine + generator. No fancy electronics. All you have is a big gauge on the dashboard. When it says "low batt", the driver has to press a button to start the gas engine. When it says "full batt", driver switches off the engine
This is my blog
magos-biologis.blogspot.com
@Reeko - You are spot on.
After doing a bit of math, I find that the current Volt pricing and fuel economy are probably not going to work for me. I'm disappointed, but since they aren't yet available in my state, I remain hopeful that next year's model or whatever version eventually becomes available in PA will be more reasonable. I'd love to buy a car right now, but I'm so disgusted with oil companies that I absolutely do NOT want a gas one. The EVs that are closest to being ready to buy have a maximum range that's a little to close to the length of my commute for my comfort (100 mi range / 80 mi. commute) and I need something that I can use on longer trips if I need to.
The fact remains that the idea behind the Volt is the best of all possible alternatives. Even if the car I eventually buy isn't the Volt, it probably will be a gas (or NG or propane or ethanol) assisted EV, and without the Volt to lead the way we probably wouldn't have its decedents.
And then people go back to complaining the GM makes undesireable pieces of crap. Had they instead went with the name 'Cadillac Volt', there probably wouldn't be a peep about the price...
I have been reading literally hundreds of articles and blogs on the Chevy Volt over the past several months. People are sharing these same concerns.
Generally, people want to buy American and believe the Volt is a step in the right direction, but when they crunch the numbers, they realize the cost will be x2 if not x3 the cost of their other options. Well, you are all correct, but honestly, it gets worse.
Actually, EV's and hybrids require far more rare earth and heavy metal minerals than traditional cars so the price of EV's and hybrids is actually likely to increase, not decrease with time as Peak Minerals are a well documented concern. Peak Minerals will likely result in a Peak Prius in the coming years. And no, there are not enough of these minerals on the planet to build billions of EV's and hybrids over the next hundred years - or even a few decades. The USDA, Chinese Ministry of Commerce and a few other mineral tracking organizations offer data that supports this limitation.
So people are still looking for a solution that cuts the ties with petroleum. So was my team when we started our firm 3 years ago. With EV's eliminated, we kept on looking.
There is a viable solution and there are almost 100 US firms now executing on business plans to make it happen: etcgreen.com
I would have to agree with your assessment! - I own the Lexus hs 250h. I have had a similar experience with this car. The electric motor experience is fantastic - no other way to put it. The whole key with the hybrid is how to integrate the gas motor as seamlessly as possible. Lexus has done a good job with that, and I also would have to say the the Camry hybrid does a good job as well.
From the Toyota hybrid experience, my wish list would be just those you have described for the Volt. - More electric motor as the motorvator!
@TankMSOE
obviously the author is a grammar nazi
oh and wasnt there an article a while back about how the batteries are sucking up natural resources? popsci seems to be contradicting itself
evening just left the company, at the junction to the car more than I see my colleagues go forward, she lives in 洛溪, and I walked the same route.
me new? Road, turn into the Guangzhou Avenue,wholesale women's belt, on the roadside drink some water, is ready to go,men's belt buckle, take a look back, just her car has more than me.
I ride forward for a while, crossing successively met two red lights, I do not line up, ride directly to the stop line,rhinestone men's belts, so I ran to the front.
洛溪 on the bridge, my colleagues once again overtaking,mens leather belt, and this is really swiftly disappeared.
view,black belts for men, city traffic,western belts, at least in the evening peak time,studded belts, the bike is really not necessarily much slower.
20.39km / h × 1.09 '37 \
I Drive back and forth to work 6 days a week and travel LESS THAN 40 MILES a day. I also sell electric transportation and im quite familiar with American daily travel statistics. More than 85% of travel in the united states is 5 miles or less from the home. This car will surely fulfill the needs of those travelers without using a drop of gasoline. Thats a win in my book. Regardless of what the vehicle costs.
The haters in these comments have one thing in common.. They hate Obama and refer to Gm as Gov't Motors. Go figure.. Let the EV bashing begin.
Wow, nothing like getting a bunch of car guys together...
I'm a former car guy, 23 years in the business in sales and management at various car dealers. My take on this is it all boils down to the efficiency and cost of batteries and I just don't see it happening using our current level of technology. Most people love the "idea" of getting rid of gas and running quiet, clean electrics but all of you who think like that need to do some serious reading about the economics of these batteries. There's plenty of technical websites that go into this and it's not a pretty picture. These things are expensive to produce and volume has little to do with it. If it did, we could all buy replacement laptop batteries for $20. Prices still may come down some but I don't think it will be enough. Second problem is storage capacity. Read how nuch energy is stored in a gallon of gas compared to the equivelant weight in a lion battery. It's a joke. Another problem is longevity. GM isn't saying yet exactly how much it would cost to replace that battery pack. Say it lasts 10 years. I think the cost is well over 10 grand but I don't really know. Now you have a nice 10 year old car that will cost 10 g's to keep running? Landfill here I come. It just doesn't pencil out, gas is here for the forseeable future and these things will never compete on a level playing field.
This technology is great, it's very cool, fun and all that stuff but so's a lot of things that nobody but a few can afford. All of this is simply more emotional, green, feel good crap. Personally I would love to see it but until a whole new concept in affordable batteries that can last 20 years, is cheap to replace and has a weight = storage capacity that's at least a decent fraction of gasoline, it's not happening. Unfortunately, such a battery hasn't been invented yet. The best candidate I've read about is the sulpher one. The problem there is it involves 500 pounds or so of 800F molten sulpher sloshing around your butt. Sounds like fun in a crash. Soccer moms would love it I'm sure. I guess you could call that car the El Diablo produced by Dante Motor Works. Instead of BMW, it's a DMW.
Anyway, I think this is all political hype designed to tell everybody look, we're green too! They all know nobody's going to make any money at this and it will die or be a small niche market like the Prius is. It's takes something like 8 years for the gas savings to justify buying one of those over a regular old Corolla.
Bob
Confusion here : the Volt uses roughly the middle 50% (actually a little bit more) of its 16 kilowatthour battery pack.
It is thus not "65% depleted" with the onset of charge-sustaining mode.
Anyone objecting to the fact that, under certain situations during charge-sustaining mode, the Volt gas powered engines imparts "a bit" of power directly to the driveshaft (in order to increase gas mileage) doesn't have a leg to stand on. First, this occurs ONLY when the gas powered engine/generator is running (during charge-sustaining mode), a time at which, guess what? all the power (and electricity) is being produced by gasoline.
Since the aim of the Volt is to reduce as much as possible gasoline consumption, if it can achieve this by using the power of the engine directly, you'd think these bozos would be applauding GM's effort. Apparently, being ultra green means taking leave of your senses. So what else is new?
"10 grand but I don't really know. Now you have a nice 10 year old car that will cost 10 g's to keep running? Landfill here I come."
You don't know what kind of battery we will have in 10 years time, so sorry it's ice's that will hit the landfill.
And what's this feel good crap, please it's not just about being green, it's having a MORE RELIABLE power system which electrics are, Virtually NO Maintenence. THAT IS AWESOME !!!
And also how safe it is sitting on a tank full of petrol ?
Fuel and sparks don't produce desirable results.
No one can stop electrics, it will take over.
You're missing my point. I love the tech and possibilities too but the problem is the cost. Your post didn't answer that. It's a perfect example of what I was talking about. Pure emotion as in "Oh wow dude, electrics are SO COOL, they're going to take over soon!"
Not so fast, grasshopper.
From your tone, I doubt you took my advice and actually read some technical websites. Batteries are chemistry. Many PhD professors have written about this. They say they've used supercomputers to model literally millions of different chemical combinations that can store electricity and so far no magic bullet. Another problem is lithium supply. Not many articles go into what happens if we really do need to produce these large lion battery packs by the millions. Look up how much lithium is available and where it comes from. It's a real eyeopener. Of course you probably don't have the inclination to do any actual technical reading, it's all like Cool Dude, it's so AWESOME!!
Popsci has many articles talking about some new potential battery element but nothing ever comes of them. The cost is always too much or it can't be scaled up to millions of units. It may come, and if it does great but until then, it's good old gasoline for 90% of us.
Bob
I love the concept, but they have to get the price down.
Volt 2, if there is one should be lighter and not couple the gas engine to the transmission. Would prefer a diesel generator.
@uncommonSTUPIDITY, your all too common level of intelligence is betrayed by your attempt to spread fear of grid collapse if too many electric vehicles are charged at once. You show your stupidity yet you make no attempt to hide it. Wear it proudly! It is your badge of courage. Congratulations on at least being honest about being happily dense.
Now, the lie that 3 Volts or Leafs charging at once will burn up transformers in your neighborhood can easily be disproved. Too bad for Mr. or Ms. uncommonSTUPIDITY.
A Volt has a 16kWh battery pack and GM has limited it to 50% state of charge (SOC). While there may be rare instances where it drains down farther GM has not publicly stated what these might be so there is no reason to use any figure other than 8kWh to fully recharge a Volt battery each night. The charger on the Volt is a brand new design, using the latest technology and since 3 and 4 year old charger designs achieve 90% charging efficiency, again there is no reason to use a figure lower than than. So there goes your 13kWh figure. It will be closer to 8.888, so for easy math you could round it off to 9kWh each night.
But let's take the idiotic value of 13kWh. The Volt charger will recharge the vehicle in 4 to 6 hours according to GM so let's take the worst case for the grid and say 4 hours. 13 divided by 4 is 3.25 kilowatts, as we are no longer including the time value. 3.25 kilowatts is a very small amount of electricity to use even at peak, but most charging will be done overnight so there will be no strain.
Let's compare that to appliances you probably use in your home every day, as do all of your neighbors.
5000 watts
Electric oven (800 for a range burner)
5000 watts
Clothes dryer (electric)
3800 watts
Water heater (electric)
3500 watts
Central Air Conditioner (2.5 tons)
1500 watts
Microwave oven
1500 watts
Toaster (four-slot)
900 watts
Coffee maker
600-1440 watts
Window unit air conditioner
200-700 watts
Refrigerator
150 watts
Desktop Computer & 15" CRT monitor
15-30 watts
Desktop Computer & Monitor (in sleep mode)
120 watts
17" CRT monitor
40 watts
17" LCD monitor
75 watts
Regular light bulb
55-90 watts
19" television
45 watts
Laptop computer
6-25 watts
Ceiling fan (36"-52"), on high speed
18 watts
Compact fluorescent light bulb
4 watts
Clock radio
So if you and your neighbors have on more than 5 100-watt lights, 2 electric fans, one computer, two big screen televisions, and a microwave oven -- you are already exceeding what the Volt will require. If you have central air conditioning, you are already exceeding what the Volt will use during recharge. If you have an electric clothes dryer, or an electric water heater you need have nothing else in the house on in order to exceed what the Volt will need. I have been drying clothes, baking, using the microwave, watching my big screen and then cranked on the air conditioning and ... no big poof from the electric grid!
Your idiotic fear campaign against electric cars has failed.
WorldcitizenUSA, interesting comments, expecially the use of the phrase "uncommonSTUPIDITY" and your other comments about that person's general level of intelligence.
Gotta love all you greenies trying to have a civilized discussion without name calling.
Your point about grid collapse could make sense I guess, I haven't seen those numbers but wow, you sure showed that guy, didn't you? Fwiw, there was a Discovery Channel show about that and they came to the exact opposite conclusion you did but I guess you weren't invited to share your expertise. You need to find an agent so you can stop handling yourself.
So now, how about an equally detailed answer to my point? You know, the one about the cost of the battery, the life expenctancy of it and how much it will cost to replace it. AND, how about a comment about the sources of lithium and the amount of lithium necessary to produce batteries in the millions required make a difference? Include something about what happens when millions of those things need to be disposed of too. Hmmmmm?? What about that big guy??
Bob
I'm all for electric cars... but the limited range has yet to convice me.
Why are they not installing solar panels on the roof?
@stealth916 You have made a good arguement but your figures are off some since the battery is never charged to full cappacity meaning never higher than 14.4Kwh this leaving all your other assumptions in place means that it would cost closer to $4.16 to charge volt over night at the .40 highest rate you meanton as the car would not draw more than 15 amps from a standard 120 volt household system which means a max draw each hour of 1.8Kw to return car to max allowed charge you are only adding back 10.4Kwh. This is still slightly off as GM states this to be a approximate 8 hour charge cycle. The other thing that may be off is your assumption on charge efficiency as some else stated these were as high as 90% as few years ago and have been improving.Also lets not forget that as electricty cost will go up in years to come so will the cost of the gas you put in your Honda and at much faster rate than that of the electricity. Now I did not try to figure out the new figures using the higher charge efficency but if you do and use the figures I give as max charge for volt you may see thing go other way from your origanal calculations.
But it's still a Chevy. I'm waiting for a Honda.
If this is the future of automobiles, go ahead and buy a bicycle. How much power does it take to drive 2 Chevy Volts 40 miles a day with the AC on? As much power as a 3000 sf house uses every day! What is the MPG with the AC on? None of the reviews for range and MPG you are seeing are with the AC on. Can you even drive a car in the south without an AC? This more than doubles the non petroleum power demands of our nation. Where does that power come from? What kind of batteries does the Volt have? lithium-ion battery cells. How much lithium exists on the entire planet? When do we start off world mining?
You have to add $3,000 to the $41,000 base price to get a Volt that charges in a reasonable time. After the rebate that makes this a $36,500 car. The only place where there is even marginal interest in the car is in CA. Don't they already have brown outs?
The volt is better than walking. G-d help us!
Yes a very nice Automobile. I would buy one as a second car to just drive around town or back and forth from work during the week. I don't think we'll get over the sound and feel of a V8 with torque and a 6spd manual going through the gears. Oh and don't forget the killer AV system too. I didn't and haven't read anyone say anything about the audio system in the Volt.
It is really extraordinary what kind of people is blogging here, with a few laudable exceptions. The same happens on other blogs. There are 5 main categories
1) Irrational US- or GM haters, many of them domestic, which are "upset" because of the bailout, even if it will probably cost nothing the taxpayers. Or they probably do not realize that the bailout saved not only more than a million jobs, but created two virtually new companies which cars at least so good as the imported
2) Bloggers paid by competition, mostly by the Japanese., which is trying to kill the VOLT to defend their Hybrids (Toyota and Honda) and also because the primitive solution "a la LEAF". which limits the usefulness of such cars to a small percentage of customers, have little chance to thrive in the US
3) Totally ignorant or people which blog without having read the available info, as QUITESTORM X, who confuses the VOLT with the LEAF and other which "knows" how much undiscovered Lithium exist in the earth (Must be a relative of Superman with X-ray vision) which hate the EV's)
4) People which believes that to generate the Electrical Energy burns the same or more quantity of fossil fuel as the Gasoline car, which do not realize that the NEW POWER plants
which eventually will be needed to feed the EVs will be in the future mainly Solar, Wind, Nuclear, which do not emit gases nor dust at all and that even a modern coal burning “combined cycle” plant contaminates and produces gases much less than the gasoline vehicles in city traffic. Of course, they are victims of their ignorance and Soviet style propaganda of the competition!
5) And as the article states: that when the vehicle electrically circulates over 70 mph, which inside cities will happen very seldom, and the Gasoline Motor, in turn only sometimes at climbing regime will aid the E-Motor by a direct coupling, persons which pretend to be HORRORIFIED because of such (instead lauding it as a further positive of the VOLT)
As for the price: Batteries (or in the future Fuel Cells) will be much cheaper, production in the 100-thousands more so, so that the price will be completely different.
And in the meantime, with the tax-credit the Volt costs about $ 32,000 (for now, people which do not pay such taxes should not buy a VOLT nor a LEAF) and there is the much more convenient leasing alternative.
And as there are many - much more as deliverable Volts- persons to buy at such conditions, GM would be a moron to sell it cheaper. These persons do so because they like it, not because they need it (the same, even if less rational, ae a person who buys a Lexus in spite of all its recalls!!)
And a last word to the bail-out crying crowd: Japanese and Korean cars are heavily subsidized by the fact that their governments virtually does not allow foreign competition in their home markets, allowing them to charge much higher prices selling them to their on people as in the USA
All you tree huggers in your ritualistic, prophylactic squat hop, can have your $35K econobox. That is, after we start off world lithium mining. Is this your "hope and change"?