Italian Scientists Claim (Dubious) Cold Fusion Breakthrough

Perdono? JAJAJAJA!!!

A comment on this part of the article:
"using about 1,000 watts of electricity which, after a few minutes, is reduced to an input of just 400 watts. This reaction purportedly can turn 292 grams of 68 degree water to turbine-turning steam – a process that would normally require 12,400 watts of electricity, netting them a power gain of about 12,000 watts."
Six units are mentioned, five are metric and have the unit, but the temperature does not. I'll assume it is 68 degrees farenheit. Using outdated imperial units in the middle of a sentence with SI units looks stupid. But since it is an article about troll science, it's probably OK.

Readers may find my interview with Rossi of interest.

See blog articles on www.newenergytimes.com

Steven B. Krivit
Editor, New Energy Times

In the photo at the top, the guy in red looks like he's smoking a bong.

When making claims about cold fusion, it's important to not have photos that make you look like you're smoking a bong.

Clay,

You've asked for some help with the language barrier. The man in the center of your YouTube frame is Francesco Celani. We have an English translation of his account on our site.

Can I give the url?

Steven

What most people are missing is that according to the Italian scientists a working unit has been heating an Italian factory for two years now. Either those Italian scientists are being honest, or they are complete liars and frauds (which is extremely unlike given what they said at the news conference and considering their backgrounds). What most people don't realize is the LENR (low-energy nuclear reactions) have been successfully studied for years - for instance I have a DIA report from Nov 2009 describing such experiments. Also, BlackLight Power (a private NJ company) had "verification" from Rowan University.

My advice is avoid excessive skepticism, and keep tuned. Briefly, such an invention would dramatically change the dynamics of population distribution, because it produces power decentrally, and you could live civilized off the power grid. Furthermore, it would allow economical desalinization, (for instance)furnishing virtually unlimited water to the Western US. I could go on and on.

By the way, to you haters out there: sometimes the future isn't like the past. Get over it, this is probably the real deal.

A little off topic, but... the patent office actually REJECTED an application??

After them agreeing to trademark the word "Face" for Facebook, I imagine them just taking anyones cash nowadays.

bunch of govt sellouts

I went a step farther and made a cold fusion car that runs on garbage, I use a flux capacitor to process the garbage. Problem is I can't share it with you right now because I have to get back to the future before my great, great, grandson blows up earth with his newly discovered red matter black hole fluid...

Ron Bennett

That's the funniest looking homemade water pipe ever!

My papers on cold fusion are linked below.

academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/7519801.aspx

enjoy

Frank Znidarsic

Why does mainstream science have to be the villain when it comes to cold fusion, which has been vindicated many times? Why can't science be free of politics. People were flying around for four years before science finally admitted they had been wrong about not being able to build a flying craft. Will PopSci be seen to be the enemy for a technology that could revolutionize the planet? Sheesh. You guys are supposed to be on the cutting edge, not the cloak and dagger against clean energy breakthroughs.

Cold fusion has been replicated by thousands around the world in the past 22 years, and it's about time someone went commercial with it.

Our story was the basis for PhysOrg's story, which was the basis for this PopSci story. We have a feature page about the technology, chronicling the news and science here:

peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Andrea_A._Rossi_Cold_Fusion_Generator

Rossi was cleared of all charges for which he had been jailed.

Sterling

So, you have to put a nickel in every time you want energy? Would a dime do?

Transcript:
This test will demonstrate that we were able to heat the water, therefore thermal energy which can be transformed into electricity with extremely low costs.
[..] You will not find it this on textbooks as many people think it's not even possible.
Interviewer: what happens in here?
Physicist: hydrogen atoms are separated from their electrons and protons, but to answer I should use a simpler language [ed. I call BS at this point] let's say that hydrogen is absorbed by the nickel and then processed [the video skips] nuclear of the nickel's atom. at this point there's an atomic transformation with emissions [video transition, 1:09]
[describes the tools]
[2:46]
In the graph, x is time, y is temperature in ºC, red line is room temp, blue line is input water temp, yellow line is output water temp [...] you can see how it grows until it reaches 100º, where it evaporates.
[...] we approximately generated 10-12kW/h when using 600-700W
[...] The people who operated the tests are professors of the University of Bologna not involved in the project.
[...] you may call it a reactor but we like to call it energy catalyzer. Behind this process there are a few theoretical problems not yet solved. Honestly, we only hypothesized the workings but there's a lot to study [...] in my opinion we could reach a higher ratio than what we reached in these tests today as we didn't try its best to be safe. [8:30] We're at the Ford T, we need to reach the Formula 1.

[video skips]
These are modules, so you can put them in a series or in parallel to increase the temperature or thermal quantity to respectively.

[video skips]
We reached important international agreements [...] people who are working at high level for mass production of this device. [9:40]

[Scientist X talks] it seems that there's a slight increase (about 50%) of the *instable* gamma radiation, therefore it seems like there's no cheat. Only thing is that you didn't allow me to measure the spectrum to understand the energy of the emitted gamma because then I would understand everything. I understand that you're concerned about anyone stealing your idea but I would have loved to see it.

[Main physicist] You're too prepared, too smart and would understand how it worked.
[...]
[Scientist X talks] I observed a small gamma "flash" when you turned it on and when you turned it off. It's hard to think that a small electromagnetic disturb would be able to start two independent battery-powered tools, this is interesting. What I don't understand is why the measures given by the "beta plus", the couple +/-, returned values near 0.

[Main physicist] I'm not able to give you an answer, my objective is "energy". The reactor is extremely complex, don't be fooled by its look, it could also be that the internal geometric system of the reactor hides the…

[video skips 13:13]
[Scientist Y talks] I don't think that the absence of gamma would be a problem, I'd expect

[Main physicist] Frankly neither do I.

[Scientist Y talks] I would expect, instead, that there shouldn't be any annihilations of positrons since, as I seem to understand, protons enter the nickel's nuclei and move the elements rightwards on the table of nuclides through "decays which go to the copper and go back to the nickel". On the right side of the table, the decays are beta minus, so I don't expect, if your theoretic interpretation is correct, that there are emissions of positrons.

[Main physicist] What you say is absolutely plausible.

[end]

I know there is a lot of hesitance to the general idea, but I've been a little more open to the idea ever since the 60 minuets documentary on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyNn_Z6wCIk

@jefro, after Obama taxes you'll need at least a quarter.

Sorry sterlingda, I know you didn't want politics in here.

From reading the Rossi/Focardi website, it seems that their proposed mechanism depends on the formation of mini-atoms of hydrogen within the lattice structure of metallic nickel. These "mini-atoms" or "hydrinos" are supposedly formed when an electron enters a bound state around the hydrogen proton with a radius of only 10^-15m instead of the typical 10^-10m for gaseous hydrogen. This mini-atom behaves as an electrically neutral particle, or perhaps a fat neutron, allowing it to approach close enough to a nickel nucleous for quantum tunneling and the strong nuclear force to take over and cause fusion.

These "mini-atoms" are part of a theory known as hadronic chemistry. Do we have any quantum chemists out there who could tell us if these hadronic mini-atoms are real?

I am not a expert on any kind of science so can someone please answer this for me.

Would this take us closer too intersteller travel? As far as I can gather cold fusion is intense amounts of power right. Could this be enough to support a fast effcient way to travel? Am not talking warp drive or nothing but is this power source enough to support something of similar travel capability.

@sterlingda

mainstream science isn't beng any more a bad guy then a parent telling there child jumping off the roof into a cup of water is a bad idea.

you say cold "Cold fusion has been replicated by thousands" but no one has ever show this to be ture ITS ALL HERE SAY! one says he made it work but the Men in black took it away, another says they had it working but then it broke and don't have the money to fix it.then there are te snake oil sellers who don't show you how it works but are willig to sell anyway.

mainstream science isn't against clean energy its against incompetent and corrupt people who either A)don't know what they're talking about or B) know they're lying but also know the average people is to stupid to see through that lie.

to me these people are most likely the former because they don't want to tell anyone how it works but are more then willing to sell it to you for the right price.

now I'm not ssaying they couldn't have found something interesting that really works, but is that likely to be cold fusion?

not likely.

they said it themself they DON"T know how it how do they know its cold fusion then?

mainstream science have Hundreds of years and a countless number of both failed and Successful Experiments behind it to tell you what is and is not likely to work.they're not trying to be bad guys they're ust telling you you're math is wrong.

I resent the statement "The future of energy involves tin foil and Dell laptops." under the picture in the article. It seems like they're trying to poke fun at the setup they have, where anyone that has ever been in a physics lab knows that those two items are the cornerstones of a lab. Tin foil has many useful properties and is used on almost every part of every experiment.
As for laptops, I've seen all sorts, but Dells are fairly common.

You wrote.
"but other physicists present confirmed that electricity was produced"

That is a mistake. The heat was captured by boiling water and no electricity was produced.

A technical report is expected early next week. It would be better to wait for that before making too many snarky comments.

Those interested in the technology might want to look at:
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/files/Rossi-Focardi_paper.pdf

@dex drako "Cold fusion has been reproduced roughly 17,000 times according to an estimate published by the Institute of High Energy Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences." -- Jed Rothwell, LENR-CANR.org, Jan. 19, 2011

For example:
"Cold-Fusion Graybeards Keep the Research Coming - Recent conference at MIT concludes that with 3,000+ published studies from around the world, the question of whether Cold Fusion is real is not the issue. Now the question is whether or not it can be made commercially viable, and for that, some serious funding is needed." (Wired; Aug. 22, 2007) wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/cold_fusion?currentPage=all#

We published an article today in response to the negativism about this development, for which you "scientists" who are supposed to be curious but instead revert to politics and knee-jerk reactions, should be ashamed.

pesn.com/2011/01/21/9501749_Fighting_the_Infection_of_Cynical_Skepticism_with_Cold_Fusion/

Despite tremendous heat and pressure, the fusion reaction of the Sun still requires multiple steps in order to occur. But mainstream scientists think, "If we just smash atoms hard enough, it'll happen." And cold fusionists think, "If we just run a small electric current through paladium in a glass of water, it'll happen."

It'll happen when somebody finally does all the necessary brain work, and I don't see that happening yet.

my cold fusion device outputs Pt and Au, and doesn't look like a giant homemade b0ng!

i wonder if these captchas are really effective, since the simplest AI could understand it, or is it based on the fact that chinese read from right to left?, (because they dont.)

This article is remarkably sloppy. I put it to the editors of PopSci that any scientific story should be put in the hands of a writer who understands basic physics.

First, his discussion of the heat values is a mess. It is wrong to say that a certain number of watts converts a certain quantity of water to steam. Watts are a measure of power; the conversion should be described in terms of energy, i.e. Joules.

Second, discussion of a ratio of output to input in this context is meaningless. The claim is that the reaction is exothermic. According to the researchers, the external heat source is provided for safety reasons, to prevent thermal runaway. If the reaction produces a positive balance of energy, it is the net energy with respect to the quantity and cost of fuel (nickel, hydrogen), plus capital costs, that is the issue.

The experiment could be a hoax. Or it could be the researchers are self-deluded, and have overlooked a chemical source of the unexplained excess energy, for example some obscure contaminant in the nickel or secret ingredients (although that certainly doesn't explain the production of gamma rays). But whether the experiment is legitimate or faulty, there is no excuse for slipshod and inaccurate reporting.

All I see is yet another hokey claim without any real science backing it, and I'm gonna be real nice and just add; just like the article says, rather than what I really want to say. I was all for the guys up in British Columbia who said they MIGHT have a way to do it; and explained where they were in their research, and had a novel approach that was untried to my knowledge. This looks every bit a scam.

Who knows mabe it's for real. There have been many lenr results that can't be explained by current science. Pons got energy gain but couldn't explain the science. So have many others. I remember when studying western civ in school that early scientific breakthroughs were often met with skepitism from the establishment. Guess that hasn't changed. Even if this case is a hoax, I wish mainstream science would look at lenr. It could be greatest invention of all times.

All "known" fusion processes produce radiation in the form of gamma rays and neutrinos. While neutrinos are difficult to detect gammas can be observed with an ordinary Geiger counter. Any fusion reaction that produces 12,000 watts of power will produce gamma radiation at dangerous levels. One of the easiest ways to determine if hydrogen fusion has taken place is to look for this signature radiation. If the gamma rays are not there it is either some other process taking place or it is the unlikely manifestation of "New Physics"

An earlier post referred to "Hadronic chemistry" and mini atoms. Actually hydrogen fusion by means of muon catalysis has been demonstrated. Muons have a negative charge like an electron but they are much more massive. If the electrons in a diatomic hydrogen atom are replaced with muons the resulting smaller orbital radius of the shared muons causes the nuclei to fuse. There are multiple fusion mechanisms depending on the relative abundance of ordinary hydrogen, deuterium, and tritium in the mix but these fusion processes have been observed in the laboratory and their characteristics are well known. The problem is that the energy required to produce a muon is significantly greater than that produced by the fusion of two hydrogen atoms. While the muons can participate in multiple fusion reactions, therefore the term catalysis, before they decay there is' as yet', no means to force sufficient muonic participation in the process to sustain a reaction with positive energy gain.

So in other words they're claiming that they can violate the first and/or second law of thermodynamics by creating a process where they're creating more energy than they're expending? Yeah I find that rather had to believe.

sterlingda wrote:

"For example:
"Cold-Fusion Graybeards Keep the Research Coming - Recent conference at MIT concludes that with 3,000+ published studies from around the world, the question of whether Cold Fusion is real is not the issue. Now the question is whether or not it can be made commercially viable, and for that, some serious funding is needed." (Wired; Aug. 22, 2007) wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/08/cold_fusion?currentPage=all#"

Would just like to point out that that quote is NOT in the article linked.

Here's a (somewhat clumsy) Closed Caption translation of the videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/batman40157

For a recent (Dec. 21, '10) seminar by a competing group using VERY HOT mini-fusion, http://focusfusion.org/index.php/site/article/focus_fusion_solstice_seminar_now_available_online/

The LP Physics (LPPhysics.com) group is a complete contrast: everything is open, they have a theoretical base, the fusion is conventional p-B11 HOT fusion, etc. Their process also bypasses the Carnot steam cycle, generating current directly (alpha beam).

Correction: the first CC'd video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/batman40157#p/a/u/2/Jr0ysNSN9Ng

Re Getsumei No Michi's post: You misunderstand/misapply the laws you are referring to. According to your post, dynamite wouldn't explode as a match that lights it has less energy than the chemical reaction you're initiating, and nuclear bombs wouldn't work (detonators have less energy than the fission reaction). The theory of fusion, cold or not, is that you're tapping the 'potential' energy from a fusion reaction. Getting enrgy fron a fusion reaction is NOT simply creating energy from nothing, which would violate the laws of thermodynamics.

thank you BOBinNH i saw that too but really couldn't explain, did a good job thanks!!!!

It may even be TRUE and HEARSAY.

== Robot Betty9

http://www.robots-and-androids.com

Input and output must be close to correct unless the university staff are crooks. If it is a hoax, any ideas what fuel could be hidden inside that could put out 10kw worth of heat for an hour? With insulation off, the catalyst generator is about 1 liter in size.

Clay, you need to get up to date with developments in this field (!), including some knowledge of basic physics.

Please don't call it "cold fusion". There is nothing that "fuses" in these experiments. The term has led many researchers down a road that leads off into the weeds. The preferred term now is LENR (Low Energy Nuclear Reactions).

There is no currently accepted explanation of how excess heat is produced in these devices. But in my view, there is indeed a plausible mechanism. Atoms are composed of a primary mass and a secondary mass. The primary mass is simply twice the atomic number, and the secondary mass is the difference between the primary mass and that shown in the Periodic Table. Tungsten, for instance, has a Z of 74 and a tablular mass of 184. Its secondary mass is therefore 184 - 2*74 or 36 amu. This secondary mass ("excess mass", currently ascribed to neutrons) has a foreign character and can be converted to energy by a simple, low-temperature process and can also produce energy spontaneously through radioactivity. The primary mass, however, is very stable and is not available for this type of conversion.

The atomic spin system is too complex to convert directly to energy. But the conversion could occur through an intermediate such as a massless particle. There is growing evidence, for example, that the flux of solar neutrinos affect radioactive decay rates here on Earth. (See scripturalphysics.org/qm/adven.html )

There are two more massless particles that have not been discovered experimentally, but whose existence is suggested from extending the perodicity of the Periodic Table "backwards" (or "upwards") into the realm of less-than-atomic (or subatomic) particles. One of these could appropriately be called a "hydrino", but it is completely different from the hydrino of Randell Mills. THIS hydrino and hydrogen (protium) appear to be closely related, and may explain why hydrogen (in the form of water, hydrocarbons, metal hydrides, H2 gas, etc.) is a key player in the LENR phenomena.

See:
scripturalphysics.org/qm/issues.html
scripturalphysics.org/qm/adven.html

Contrary to the POPSCI article on Italian Cold Fusion, the claims by Rossi and Focardi are not dubious, but quite valid. Indeed, nuclear fusion may be triggered by electrical heating of the nanoparticles in the Ni powder, the classical explantion of which is not possible. Insted, quantum mechanics explains the Bologna experiment by the QED induced conversion of absorbed electrical heating in Ni nanoparticles to high energy photons. Since the number of photons is not conseverved, there is no limit to the number of photons that can accumulate in the nanoparticle, and therefore the energy/atom increases to the 2.6 MeV level to trigger fusion. But like conventional fusion, radiation dangers exist that may limit the application for use by the general public. See prlog.org/11277508-qed-induced-cold-fusion-in-italy.html

We should not be shy about investigating radically different New Energy technologies. And labeling such demonstrations "dubious" seems to be premature, if not altogether unwarranted. Why not just report the news and let the readers evaluate the claims?

A case in point is the Papp engine. It is a piston type engine that has no intake or exhaust. It runs by "plasma transitions" and uses a single, sealed charge of mixed noble gas, which is supposed to be good for a few thousand hours of operation. Is it real? For more info see:

scripturalphysics.org/qm/issues.html#PappEngine

Production of "excess hydrogen" is another technology we keep reading about. Several researchers have shown that it is possible to produce hydrogen from water far in excess of the Faraday equivalent of the electrical energy used in electrolysis to produce it. (An effect like this was noticed by a chemist in the 1950s but dismissed it as "anomolous hydrogen") Such a scheme could be a new fuel source. A highschool chemistry student could reproduce these experiments, but schools would write it off as "junk science". See:

scripturalphysics.org/qm/issues.html#ExcessHydrogen

We should not be shy about investigating promising new energy technologies or claims for such. They could create entirely new industries, and millions of jobs.

This is a real earth-shattering breakthrough that will change everything. Not something to be laughed at. The work has been going on since 1994, when Focardi first published strong results. Cold fusion was prematurely declared a fraud just because it wasn't well understood at first. (It took decades to get semiconductors to work reliably too!) Today it is reliably achieved by hundreds of researchers. Here is an article I wrote with more details.

www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2011/03/low-energy-nuclear-reactions-2-5-million-watt-hours-from-a-nickel

I briefly looked into this after reading a snippet about it on a blog. Not that I was expecting any degree of credibility to such miraculous claims made by a fringe blog, I was still curious because everyone secretly hopes for the holy grail of energy to be discovered and end all our energy troubles. After just briefly looking into however (maybe about an hour’s worth of searching), these are the reasons I have found NOT to put one iota of faith in this ‘discovery’: No public demonstration of a self sustaining closed loop system, no neutrinos detected, other physicists not allowed to even look for gamma rays, history (convicted) of pseudoscience related fraud (and no, there is no record that he was cleared besides what he himself posted on his website), no theoretical basis whatsoever, no peer reviewed papers (in fact he self ‘published’ a phony online journal in a blog), highly unlikely (stable) elements claimed to be fusible at extremely low temperatures compared to any widely peer reviewed and confirmed claim of nuclear fusion, supposed product of fusion of nickel with 'light' hydrogen should be highly radioactive isotopes of copper and easily detectable and none has been to this point, claims have been made that should be easily verifiable (that they have been running a factory for two years off a similar reactor) have not been verified to my knowledge (not even the existence of said factory), the patent lacks international protection and the Italian patent was filed just months before legislation requiring the review of any pending patent for ‘patentability’ before being granted by the Italian patent office went into effect (furthermore after reading the English patent claim myself it is woefully short, speaks more on the inadequacies of current methods of power generation than about the actual ‘reactor’ itself, and is so poorly translated it borders on obscene), and the list continues on and on and on.

If it was just one or two of the above items that were an issue I would be ecstatic about these claims, but this reeks of fraud so badly anyone even contemplating the feasibly of Rossi's claims is clearly devoid of any cognitive capabilities.

We may one day discover that cold fusion 'of a sort' is indeed possible, even economically viable for electrical power generation (I’m hold my breath for that though), but I would bet my scientific career (which admittedly has very little relation whatsoever to nuclear physics) that this is not that discovery.

Anyone interested in starting a news/network site on Cold Fusion with me? To advance the production of fusion energy and inform the public?
drop me a line: info@FusionCatalyst.com

What Drives me Crazy, is the fact that the Nay-Sayer keep repeating, 'well you don't know how it works, therefore you cant build it' attitude, well remember the light bulb? it was built first and it took 'an Einstein'...what a minute it was Einstein that figured out how it worked...remember that Nobel prize..the photo electric effect? well here Nay Say Science does it again, well if you don't know how it works, you cant make it work speech. and ignore the very basic fundamental requirement of science, repeatable experimentation.

Haven't hear much about this "invention" from Italy lately. For something that supposed to revolutionize the way humanity generates energy to get that quiet ? Something is fishy here.

As I was searching the internet for "fusion" related energy source I stumbled upon YouTube video posted by Australian company called "Star Scientific LTD".

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu-IKqxVOfo

Wikipedia confirms that muon catalyzed fusion is a real deal. Company's website ( www.starscientific.com.au/ )seem to imply that they came up with a way to produce muons in large quantity and cheap. Anyone here knows anything about that ?

Sterling Allen has zero credibility.
He promotes various forms of "free energy" on his his website.
None of which has ever been duplicated OR SOLD nor has appeared to exist any where.
What weight does a "Sterling Allen argument" hold?
I guess zero!
So on to Rossi and his non existant Ecat!
No scientist, no testing lab, no person outside of Rossi has ever tested and published any results that the Ecat is a functioning device!
There is no evidence that Rossi has factories.
There is no evidence that Rossi has a working device.
Rossi himself states that he is selling "licenses" to produce his (so far) non existant Ecat!
Aside from that what do we have?
Statements from Rossi's blog on the internet is all we have!
Rossi says all critics are "snakes".
What more do you need?
A Grey Alien with blue eyes typed this for me!
Refute that!
What you don't believe that because the universe is so vast
and so many intelligent life forms could exist that a Grey Alien could not have typed this for me?
Same argument that "Cold Fusion is real" means Rossi is real!

I am really disturbed that Popular Science Magazine would do a story about the Rossi Ecat.
Yeah the so called "History Channel" does "Pawn Stars"
and "Ancient Aliens".
Sick and bad (f__ked up) as it goes.
How wrong do you need to go to get readers?
Promoting obvious scams?
Where does it stop Popular Science?
Unless you are going to investigate the Rossi Ecat the whole way?
And answer ALL the questions.
If not you are just the History Channel airing the show "Ancient Aliens"!
Keep up your credibility not destroy it!!!!

No Scientist(or anybody)has ever confirmed that Rossi is heating anything like a factory which by the way Rossi has no known factories!
It is just another "Rossi says"!