Should a New Recipe for Engineered Bird Flu, Potent Enough to Kill Millions, Be Published?

now to gather this recipe and tweak to only target mosquitoes.

Stock up on lots of garlic bulbs and onions. When the bird poop hits the fan and the H1N1 virus mutates enough and become air born, the black plague will return.

Dr. Nostradamus, back in his day of the black plague was highly successful in his treatments. He travels the country side helping people. First he baths him often and always prior to seeing a patient. He wears a long coat soak with garlic oil and he eats garlic constantly. Before he sees the sick, he requires them to be bath too and continue bathing.
During the time of the black plague he was in fact highly successful in helping the sick.

But after traveling the country, he returns to his home and his family had died of the black plague in his absence. Of course this changes his personality and he began his famous odd writing\predictions.

Of course I can imagine why he becomes obsess with knowing the future. If he could have anticipated his family being sick, maybe he could of helped them.

Airborne Human to Human H5N1 Bird Flu? That`s like a 1000 Fusion Bombs packed into one. The entire world will quickly be infected tens or even hundreds of millions could be killed. Lets hope the Dutch keep it locked up in their lab and that they don`t share it with all the Russian, Chinese labs that don`t take nearly as many precautions when it comes to safety. Just look at the recent Russian Mars probe.

@lil_mango Yeah, because -that's- not a recipe for disaster *rolls eyes*

maxb500
You pull these statistical rabbits out of what hat? While I do go with the article as in saying millions, I feel you are exaggerating.

Oh, the reason MAD actually works, it applies to 2 opposing forces that find unreasonable to kill each other, that would also make for their own death.

Why MAD does not work, is the modern day terrorist. These idiots think it’s a good idea to die. So let us hope they do not get their buggy sticky fingers on this H5N1 or anything else similar.

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

Isn't there a system for classified papers?

The point is the information is useful but highly dangerous. publishing as a NATO and Warsaw pact classified documents seems like the right solution.

Hackers will make a Robot virus to reach out anonymously and plant Trojan virus into the secured government NATO computer storing the classified papers of the H5N1 virus, so the Hackers worm the stolen virus into the world and let it multiply like devil black plague virus it really is!

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

@GeeWilikers
Stock up if you like... totally different beast though. Plague is caused by a bacteria (yersinia pestis) and is transmitted primarily by fleas. The washing probably did more than the garlic (though it's possible it helped fend off the fleas). Flu is a virus and is transmitted directly between susceptible hosts. The main reason bird flu hasn't been involved in large numbers of human deaths is that it is bad at going between 2 humans. Most people who get infected work closely with birds which have become infected. Having a highly pathogenic influenza virus which is not only transmitted person to person, but also can be transmitted by airborne particles (i.e. from a cough or sneeze) makes it much more dangerous.

On a positive note and worse case scenario, it seems always at least 1% of humans always survives.

Now after a year, what would society be like then?

Robot; Actually many news website are reporting it as the Virus that will kill half the worlds population. That`s because bird flu has been killing about 56% of Humans it had effected.

My positive point there maxb500, was at least somebody will survive.

But 56% of 7 billion people gone are not good. I would think then with some much death, secondary disease will also come into play and then the death rate would go higher. Plus at that point all infrastructures of any society would collapse and then add to more deaths with no food, bad sewers and bad water and no electricity, more disease....

So your previous comment would prove out to be very true.

What I was really requestion earlier or hoping for, that you provide links of where you get your facts. It would be most useful for me and other reader to just become more aware of facts.

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

Suddenly the movie " I am Legend " comes to mind....

Suddenly the movie " I am Legend " comes to mind....

I think I better get that flu shot this season.

so....we just found the cure to over population...reminds me of the series "life after people"

The world needs to be thinned out folks. There is a lot of good and hope in this world, but things are getting worse and will continue in that direction. We multiply indiscriminately, even though we can't support the population as it is. I don't wish to see the suffering of my loved ones or the innocent who had nothing to do with the current state of the world, nor do I wish to suffer, but we need to thin out, let the earth heal a bit and hopefully put the good things we have learned to action. We wouldn't, but it would be nice. Some ego would take over and have to control everything, or someone would get jealous that people naturally gravitated to one leader, and the warring would start all over. We are what we are and even through good intentions we destroy. Maybe the dolphins will do better once they can get to land. achoo.

wow this is some scary serious stuff. i just hope a group of scientist somewhere are cooking up an anti virus just in case.

@beefymclovin

i used to think like that....but overpopulation is not a problem yet. countries like Australia have lots of free space.

_________________
The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain.

- Abu-al-Ala al-Marri

this idiot scientist should be executed for his utter and complete stupidity! Scientist; "hey i got an idea, lets engineer a deadly super-virus that can kill everyone on earth! Thats a great idea!" Gosh what an absolute ****! I fear for the future of humanity, people are such dip-sh**s!

jexaon,
Later the Dutch medical facility will be the only ones holding the vaccine. Maybe they is not stupid, but maybe they is evil greedy. I do not want to insult the them, but it makes me wonder for the long run?

@geewillikers

Dutch Medical Facility,
You are super smart, geniuses. You are my overlord. I bow before you. Now please give me the vaccine. Havn't I said enough?

"Isn't there a system for classified papers?"

yeah... that worked out REAL well for the Manhattan project. It was the worlds best kept secret! until the Russians stole the so called classified papers.

those 1 set of "classified papers" led to the biggest arms race the wrold has ever seen and ended only after tens of thousands of nuclear bombs have been made.

@robot Careful, saying that half of the world population is bad is treading into Nazi territory. I still agree with population trimming though.

"And the researchers who figured out how to do it would like to share their work with the world"

What the @#$%!!! Am I reading this correctly or are they saying they want to spread this thing?!!

At the Dutch Medical Facility:

"We are pleased to announce today the release of our newest deadliest virus. Please visit your local clinic or ask your doctor how you can qualify to receive your free sample. For a limited time only. Rules and regulations may apply"

________________________

where will you spend eternity?

xalar,
You need to read the comment above my 57% comment. I was just following the logic of maxb500. And what I said was if half the population died, that would not be good. To be clearer, I do not want anyone to die or be sick. I do not wish anything bad for anyone, how about that, too.

BTW, I am a Christian Robot. And if you are not religious, that is your choice. Just take my comments as I wish good things for people. ;)

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

@The angry people

The goal of this viruses auther isnt to release a killer virus into the population. But to release his method for engineering the virus to airborne communicability and more importantly human suseptability. remember the part of the article when they mentioned how we used to think the virus wasnt replicatable when it became contractable by humans. well that has been proven wrong by this resaerch. That does make this virus dangerous but it also makes it important we need to understand this process and how to stop or prevent it from wipeing out the human race if god forbid it comes about natrualy, outside of a lab. If this work isnt published then other scientist elsewhere (with funding) cant do the necessary research to stop this thing. Also if you censor this mans work whats to stop goverment organizations from keeping other scientific work from coming to light. Security is never worth giveing up freedom or progress. also robot grunt and geewilikers are clearly all the same person and i have a strong suspicion its bumbagump and i must say....its pretty weird.

first off there is no cure for a virus, a virus is a protein surrounding a strand of dna most of the time. it is literally not alive until it finds it's host. the best you can do is code another virus that over-writes this virus's specific DNA or RNA.

personally I would have to say that it should not be introduced. it's a toss up really, I'm not ever really affected by the flu so I'm not sure the costs outweigh the benefit.

to mars or bust!

@GeeWillikers Nostradamus is predicting a big one for this time period . The direct death toll is supposed to be 2.3 billion.Don't worry, I am sure your garlic will save u. I will use the holly grail.

How does this bring on a discussion about overpopulation. Yes it is a big problem but there are better ways to tackle that. Restrict couples to one child and boom, problem solved and you don't have to kill anyone. This will probably not ever happen in our "free" country. We'll end up dying from this crap because everyone is going to live in a big city before too long. Packed together like sardines and coughing on each other.

Drop a bomb on that facility, please.

well lets hope there are at least 500 people with the genetic code to bet this thing or were all screwed as a species.

This is what the Elites want. A super virus to wipe out most of the population.

To everyone complaining about overpopulation; kill yourself. Don’t expect other people to die for you.

There is no overpopulation; the world can support 1 trillion people.

Seriously geneticists, I'm a big pro-technology person. But in this case i think the "Because we can" attitude needs to be tempered with a little more wisdom.

I really don't see how this could possibly benefit humanity or life on Earth in general.

WE SHOULD DO A PETITION TO NSAB AND SCIENCE MAGAZINES SHOWING OUR CONCERN AND DEMANDING THAT THEY DON'T PUBLISH THE FINDINGS!

THIS GUY IS THE NEXT OPPENHEIMER, THE DESTROYER OF WORLDS!

THIS IS LIKE CONTAGION THE MOVIE.IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!=( =( =( =( =(

It's a useful study and should be published. Understanding the conditions under which bird flu can mutate into a deadlier virus, as well as its characteristics when transferred from one mammal to another will be crucial in limiting damages should it develop naturally (and without more thorough prevention it will). The fatality rate would not be 57%. That value describes the proportion of people known to have been infected who died from it. Naturally people who were exposed and were unaffected, or didn't have severe enough cases to go to a hospital, or went to the hospital and were diagnosed with regular flu are all absent from that number. Anyway, I think a terrorist organization would have a tricky time getting their hands on a large enough supply of infected birds, weasels, lab equipment, and cooperative biologists. I also doubt that there are a lot of terrorists out there with anything to gain by killing millions of random people (terrorists hope to get something from an attack, usually have specific targets, and need to be able to stop the attack if they intend to collect a ransom).

also... @ aldron: The Earth is unable to support 1 trillion humans (if every bit of dry land was habitable, each person would need to subsist on an area smaller than a tennis court). There's not enough copper to move the electricity they'd use (assuming they use about as much as a modern table lamp) there are some resources in short supply with only 7 billion. Even if everything was moved into massive skyscrapers, complete with fusion plants and hydroponic farms, one trillion would still be too many people. What's more, there's nothing especially useful or good about having more people, so it would be pretty worthless to want to increase the population. As far as agriculture goes, 1/7th of the population is significantly malnourished, theres enough food on the market wordwide to feed 12 billion, but most of it is only available in the wealthiest nations, if we killed all the beef cows there's be enough additional land to to feed more than 20 billion total people, and if you made of all arable lands you could feed around 50 billion, provided you had adequate water resources. basically, don't be a troll.

oh god this is the end.
h5n1 is one of the most dangerous viruses ever.
exaggerating a little but still this is pretty bad
prob worse than weaponized smallpox.

Wow, people are going to the far extreme on this one. Viruses mutate. That's what they do. What exactly do you think will happen if -- or when -- this virus mutates naturally into a form that spreads between humans? The purpose of this study was not to create a super-virus, nor can you simply go down to your local medical practictioner and get a shot of instant-death.

They created this thing under controlled conditions in a laboratory setting and are looking to publish it to the scientific community to look for potential cures; cures that will inevitably help us out, *when* this thing (or something similar) finally does hit the human population.

If we decide to simply not identify what this virus will look like, when it finally does hit us, we will have no preparation for it at all. And then, yes, the impact will be devastating.

We have a choice: face this virus with knowledge, or face it without knowledge. You have to choose.

Furthermore, the "creator" of this virus does not own the cure; there is no cure yet. That's the whole point of publishing the data, for other researchers, in other laboratories, in other countries, to identify the cure.

Erasmus Medical Centre does not, and likely will not, own the cure. Some other centre is most likely to discover that.

We need to be asking these kinds of questions, because eventually, pandemics *will* occur, regardless of if they're man-made or nature-made. We need to be ready to deal with them when they happen.

As for Nostradamus, his predictions are in the same league as numerology, astrology, predictions of the end of the world in 2012 (and every end-of-world prediction made prior, of which there are many - big ones typically at least every decade, since time immemorial), and so on.

Believe it if you want, but you'll be left constantly predicting an event that either will not come or, if it does, will be entirely unrelated to the prediction itself. As has been the case with every prior generation and its inevitable predictions to this point in history.

By the way, someone mentioned just limiting the number of allowed births to 1 per family? Because that worked SO well in China, right? Ignore the fact that families inevitably ended up slaughtering female babies because they wanted their one chance at a child to be male, whom would be more likely to find a suitable job and take care of the parents into their old age.

How's about this: population IS stabilized in industrialized nations. They are not the problem, and even China is stabilizing. The problem is economy and welfare; Hans Rosling makes the argument that if you improve infant mortality rates in impoverished regions of the world to the point that they match industrialized nations, you will naturally curb exponential population growth, and I think he makes a great point.

http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html

Here's Ron Fouchier's email address if he's still using it!

r.fouchier@erasmusmc.nl

And here's some concerning websites:-

http://ralfengel.com/a-%CF%89/erasmus-centre-should-be-occupied

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-11/should-recipe-engineered-bird-flu-potent-enough-kill-millions-ever-be-published

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/29/bird-flu-h5n1-avian-flu-virus_n_1118673.html

http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/category/home/

http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/11/29/h5n1-disinfo-alert-warning-warning/

http://gdsajj.wordpress.com/2011/11/10/baxter-recalls-300000-flu-vaccines-for-serious-adverse-reactions/

kevin,

Of your sources:

One of them is to this very article.

Another is to the huffingtonpost, notoriously one of the worst news sites on the entire internet with regards to medicine and medical science.

http://ralfengel.com appears to be a random blog website, which isn't even really all that coherent.

The rest all appear to be from the same source, gsajj.wordpress.com, which isn't a news website at all, but rather just the blog of some random anti-vaxxer.

So I really hope no one reads your post and thinks any of your links are reputable.

When has a secret kept by hundreds remained secret?

When has a Nation or group never used a weapon it possessed?

When has a laboratory been designed that is 100% secure and foolproof?

Setting false rhetoric and justifications aside, scientists have created something that can kill 4 billion people. Hitler only managed 11 million.

May their Gods have mercy on their souls.

I won't pretend there are no risks involved in this study; there are, without a doubt.

However, I also see the research as not just important, but necessary. If we don't take these risks, if we don't ask these questions, nature will force it upon us eventually.

I don't like the idea that we're destroying the environment; that's no reason not to find out how to fix it.

And if you think the two situations are different because the environment being destroyed is independent of our inquiring about it, whereas the H5N1 was created in tandem with the question; you're pretending nature itself would not have created this or a similar disease.

It has before, and it will again. Asking questions is nearly always a superior position than ignoring the questions.

i see Canadian_Skeptic is either idiot or actual skeptic who can't accept H1N1 was early version of trying to get swine flu to carry avian flu (H5N1) and deliberately introduced for genocidal reasons - and that -

though unable to stop it's introduction as i'd have lost my life trying & almost did & it would still have gone ahead anyway...

after it's introduction i managed to get the laboratory seized away from those who were using it.

C_S, a false person, bases his criticism on "defeat" of a commentator to prove his points - on that i merely pasted in some contacts i had on my memory stick - on of which included this website - and a publication at

http://ralfengel.com/a-%CF%89/erasmus-centre-should-be-occupied

which shows my prompt of local businesses to get back some Welsh Grant money that i had to prompt IBM to apply for so's to get the laboratory seized - the point being that Grants weren't meant for that though it did the trick and...

C_S shows off his "measured" criticism [of news of delib past intro for genocide reasons, of a virus] by deigning to point as part of his "evidence" [almost as if saying that such did not happen & so may likely never happen (& that experimentation is needed)]...

by showing part of & not full site address as his relevant and laughable "evidence"...

oh, by the way, the same gang who intro'd H1N1 already made moves to take H5N1 to themselves (and i should know).