House Subcommittee's Budget Bill Puts Most Powerful Space Telescope on the Chopping Block

Bombs before science. How I fear for the future of our species.

Shortsighted for sure.

Stop funding our nation building and cut the defense budget in half. Spend that saving on scientific R&D instead. We'd be immeasurably better as a country.

No more Shuttle, no JWST. This is really bad news. Lets hope it doesn't come to reality.

I dont understand why we cant ever finish something that we start.

Not to mention NASA's budget is only 1% of all of federal funding, so its not like their saving that much money.

AMERICA! F**K YEAH!

Oh, come ON! We have to CUT the bloated DEFENSE budget, which unlike science programs, has NOT been put to good use, and does NOT create as many jobs as science and technology!

This is the house of representatives, here! Let's do our best to make sure the representatives voting for science budget cuts and defense spending increases DO NOT GET REELECTED!

I'm not a fan of Obama, but at least he ACTS like he believes science is a priority! $43 million for the NSF's core research?! They can barely run a decent survey on that amount, let alone experimental research! What, does the House expect idle speculation to somehow match the exploits of real science?

I don't mind the JWST's funding being cut as much as I do general science being cut, but it's still not a good thing. When we've already spent so much on this project, we should see it through to completion so that the money ALREADY SPENT will not have been wasted.

One thing we need is funding to start building that giant railgun to sling launch vehicles into the upper atmosphere, minimizing the use of explosive fuel. Sure, it'd be 2 or 3 miles long, but it would be a HECK of a lot cheaper to get stuff into space - economically and environmentally - and NASA could rent it to private companies when they aren't using it. It would pay for itself in just a few years, I'm sure, and I'm pretty sure we'd get some bigger space stations built with it than we'd ever dream of without it.

We can has orbital space colony? :D

NO, said the house of reps. NO.

What a tragedy! I have sooooo been looking forward to this. Instead they spend a few trillions on war instead of advancing science. So sad :(

I support the cancellation. Mankind has no business in space. Our bones can't handle it, our cells can't handle it, there is no planet other than earth with oxygen supporting atmosphere, none other than earth with a magnetic field capable of routing cosmic and solar rays around us, and none in the right temperature range. Mankind is far to far to ever contemplate solar to solar spaceflight so quit the pipe dream and focus on EARTH.

99% of the seas are still unexplored.

@ youknowwho

This project is not manned.
How would YOU gather your knowledge of space without projects like these?

And i can safely say man don't belong in the Mariana Trench!

Your point is invalid

When the budget is balanced we can talk about government spending money on science. Even the $500 of my money they've budgeted to spend on NASA programs over the next three years is too much. As for the military, if we don't get our spending in line we will lose the war without any fighting.

For now on, the question "Why government?" needs to be answered first.

If congress doesn't cut-cut-cut then they will indeed be fired. No sacred cows here.

Martin Luther King Jr. said it best "a country that spends more money on self defense than on social uplift is approaching spiritual doom"

@gizmowiz
That's a short sighted veiw you have. If we hadn't have studyed the stars in the past we wouldn't know where the elements in my your or any persons body was made. If it wasn't for people looking at sky we likly not have calculus. If we hadn't gone in to space we wouldn't much of our maodern lifes. That's all with out even talking about how human nature and the need to explore. In short going in space is good for science and fulfills part of human nature.

Science is all or nothing. You can simlpy say "You can work on this bcause that's not usful." The problem with that think is that all of science is interdependent.

There are always people like you who say we can't do it and they are showen wrong time and time again. "Our bones can't handle it," To our bones it doesn't matter if we are in space or not. What matter is if that aren't being used and thus for our bodys to keep they strong enough for one G. "our cells can't handle it" No, they do just fine. " none other than earth with a magnetic field capable of routing cosmic and solar rays around us," that's flat out wrong. Jupitor has one many many times stronger than the Earth's, and on the ones with out it we can find ways of dealing with the radation. "99% of the seas are still unexplored." And even more of our universe unexplored. I think it will take a lot longer to explore the universe than the bottom of the seas so we better get started as soon as we can.

@DerivePi
"When the budget is balanced we can talk about government spending money on science" WE can balance the budget and not cut science. Here is how we do it cut wastful spending and fix the tax system. Without spending money on science we won't have an economy. "Why government?" Well becuae we need it and noone and nothing else can do the job.

We are so screwed as a species. Our leaders wont even touch the 2 billion we spend on needless wars that are costing american and civilian lifes.

End the wars, and this will be pocket change. Follow the money, we are not there for liberation, we are there so the Military Industrial Complex can ring as much money as possible from us while securing resources they need.

Benjamin Franklin once said, "once people realize they can vote themselves money, it will be the end of the republic."

It is just a shame to see no one trying to put a stop to all this money funneling.

this is upsetting, every time nasa does some thing exciting the budget gets in the way. this telescope doesnt even cost a whole lot to put in space. especially compared to everything else the government is investing in.

The decline of an Empire

I can't stand the fact that lawyers (politicians) get 100% say in our government and groups that actually represent our populous don't. I respect lawyers and the amount of diligence they must have had to get through Grad school. Many have graduated from respectable schools like Yale or Harvard. But it's really not good practice to have all of your decision makers coming from the same school of thought. As much as citizens of the world complain about lawyers, politicians, corruption, etc... we sure do tend to keep voting them back in. Why can't we start electing Psychologists, Economists Scientists, Mathmeticians, Teachers, Developers, Architects, Salesmen... Maybe then debates would get somewhere? Maybe I'm wrong. It just seems like the government would be less of a corrupt organization and more of a think tank.

Sorry for the rant. But this really ****** me off.

As much as I regret the decision, one thing we must remember of why the government exists in the first place:

The first and foremost duty of any states is the defense of its citizenry.

I think Cicero said that.

Now, I don't know whether the US defense budget is bloated or what, but, as an ethical government goes, those politician must think of it first, and anything else last.

It was to be expected. And the American TMT thirty meter Earth based Telescope to be completed in 2018 will prove to be more profound for space research anyway. Not only with a size of 30 meters compared to a tiny 6 for James Webb. James Webb will also only operate in infrared while the TMT telescope will operate in, visible and mid-infrared. The TMT will operate for decades while the James Webb will operate only years. The TMT will be easy to maintain and upgrade while the James Webb will be out of Reach. Large telescope`s in Space are great on many levels like infrared. But when it comes to size and cost they better be build on Earth.

Then we have the James Webb already far over budget. And launch dates now pushing 2018 or beyond. Even China and Japan have now joined the TMT project. Can`t wait for it`s first discoveries. Including projects finished later like the ELT and the Giant Magellan Telescope.

* 2 billion a week is spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan*, not 2 billion in general, but 2 billion a week. That was a typo missing per week.

Now @petitroll, tell me that isn't bloated. If they were concerned with protecting the people in power, they wouldn't be putting medicaid (basic healthcare) and social security (retirement) on the chopping block along with programs like these and massive funds to things like schools and research and development. They aren't even daring to touch the defense money we spend or question things like the bailout which cost us over a trillion dollars.

We spend an average of around 607 billion a year in 2010 on Defense. The next highest spenders...

America - 607 billion
China - 61 billion
UK - 60 billion
Japan - 47 billion
etc.....

http://blog.heritage.org/wp-content/uploads/defspend1.jpg

*protecting the people that put them into power"

I agree with gizmowiz. Interstellar space travel is not for humans. Our bones and our cells are not up to the task. It would be "cool" to travel to Mars just so we could say we did it but in reality what would that really do for us? We can't realistically colonize it because of the mentioned bones and cells issues and even if we discovered a natural resource on Mars that was AMAZING the logistics of mining it and bringing it back to Earth would make it a wash. There is plenty left here on Earth for our species to accomplish. If we ever want to take over the universe it will be in robotic form when we will eventually be able to download our brain into a machine. Then the probelems of zero gravity and time wont matter. But even that is a looooonnnnnnnggggggggg way off.

As for defense spending I'm all for it but that probably didn't suprise anyone. With all the wars we are involved in abroad we are hurting for money for training and equipment. All our funds go to the war effort. I've been waiting to go to Ranger School for 3 years. 3 Years I've been #1 on my battalions OML list to go but due to lack of funding they can't send me(I'm combat arms BTW) because the school costs about 100K for one soldier. Alot of other less than high speed schools are also on the back burner. Alot of technical schools that teach valuable and usefull skills that can be employed effectively in combat and potentially save lives. But funding is the road block. I don't care either way if we pull out or stick it out for the wars but hopefully one battle ground it replaced with another because for me thats job security ;).

Personally, we need to stop voting for the democrats and the republicans. becasue those 2 partys have basiclly stop in there tracks and are doing nothing but argue with each other. let them die off and 2 new ones come to power.

See this is what i dont like. polticians that talk the good talk but dont do anything.

JWST is a TELESCOPE. Before you comment on it, please learn something about it and its science objectives. What was threatening to fundamentalists and the religious right was some of the questions JWST was posed to answer. Apologists would be out of a job forever.

Of course it is over-budget... that is how these kind of projects work. To get any project passed you have to provide an incredibly unrealistic budget and schedule. Once you start meeting some milestones and providing results, you have to go back for more funding. It is also called progressive elaboration - no project knows from the beginning how the details are going to roll out. And what everyone seems to forget is that each and every piece is *custom-made* and extremely precise. AKA -- expensive.

Space is unforgiving and a cruel environment. Each of these precision instruments has to be designed, built, tested, cryo tested, etc. - even the software is custom. The ground support equipment is custom. Piece by piece,, test by test. With nothing left to chance. The team has the best people in the industry working on it across the board.

I am absolutely speechless at this news.

Incorrect Aerogal. There was nothing threatening to the religious right at all when dealing with the JWST. Astronomy is their field.

@1134

Your source's math is a wee bit off...

USA Annual Defense Spending = $595B = 4.06% of GDP
USA GDP = $14.66T
China Annual Defense Spending = $433.87B = 4.3% of GDP
China GDP = $10.09T

try this source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

@jaydub

CIA World Factbook: “United States… Military expenditures: 4.06% of GDP (2005 est.)”

Your numbers are from 2005 and they compare defense spending to GDP (Gross Domestic Product), which isn’t a useful comparison for this discussion. I think it would better to compare Defense spending to overall government spending. Let’s look at 2010:

Total Spending: $3.55 Trillion (2010 est.)
Social Security $0.695 Trillion %19.6
DoD $0.6637 Trillion %18.6
Medicare $0.453 Trillion %12.8
NASA $0.0187 Trillion %00.527

Personally, as a former member of the US military and a student of history, I don’t mind 20% of my federal tax dollars going to Defense. I don’t necessarily agree with how this money is spent, but that is another discussion. As a Libertarian, I would like Social Security and Medicare privatized. Government is incompetent as a rule, and should be trusted with as little responsibility as necessary. As for NASA’s budget, we need to spend more than %0.527 if we want to survive as a species. Earth can’t support life forever. We need to start learning to survive elsewhere.

I know this will never happen, but I would like to see NASA get 400 billion annually.

I've been looking forward to JWST for years, but unfortunately it has evolved into yet another bloated, over-budget, mismanaged mess much like Constellation (Moon program II), ISS, Shuttle etc etc.

I like to call these Vampire Programs because they suck the budgetary life out of other worthy programs that otherwise could advance us much further in the long haul. Even members of the science community have complained of this problem, and it's getting worse.

I count Shuttle in this group because it never met its design goals in terms of cost, re-usability (too complex & slow), safety (design flaws, no launch escape system etc) or flight rate. It was supposed to be replaced in the early 1990's, but when HL-20 (and its big brother HL-40) got too close to flying for comfort Shuttle pork interests got the program cancelled. This happened again in 2001 when VentureStar was cancelled supposedly because of a fuel tank problem in its X-33 testbed that had already been fixed. Again, Shuttle pork interests at work.

The bottom line is that while these programs have a lot of cool factor they also represent a broken culture at NASA and among certain members of Congress that needs serious fixing, and the best way to start is cancelling vampire programs as soon as they sprout fangs.

DocM

Seriously, everyone, write your @#%&ing congressman NOW!!!!

My bad didn't put as much time researching it as I should have, thanks for responding.

Cool Article!

I agree with euroson99.

By the time JWST is ready to launch, it will become obsolete. Its angular resolution was planned to be about 0.1 arc-second, while both TMT & E-ELT promise to provide 0.01 arc-seconds.

The JWST's unique feature is the ability to take sharp pictures at 14 - 28 micrometer range - that's what all the fuss is about. I think it sin't worth the money spent.

There is also a great risk of loosing JWST during the launch and deployment.

I don't understand the outrage.
I do think science is cool (obviously, or I wouldn't be on this site).
I do think we spend more than we should on military.
But it's not like NASA's budget is getting slashed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_NASA

Maybe we should put the House Subcommittee on the chopping block. Or maybe we should be able, as taxpayers, to decide where our money should go. Like "My tax money will not go to matters involving Iraq or Afghanistan" (a percentage equal to the federal budget for that item deducted).