Chinese Rare Earth Company Strokes Mustache, Cuts Off World's Access to Rare Earths to Inflate Prices

...and while China is halting the flow of rare earth elements (not all of which are actually very rare) the world will loosen it's dependency on them.

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why learn from your own mistakes, when you could learn from the mistakes of others?
“The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible” -Albert Ein

-my name here- Opec did the same thing. Sad to say I don't think that will be the case anytime soon but I'm with you, I'd love to see a bunch of smart engineers find alternatives to these minerals.

I agree, but the problem is less smart engineers they do all the work, but its the dumb politicians and ignorant and stubborn consumers who really hold back industrial progress,

-less Government is more order, more order is less government-

Im sure the Afgans will thank China for this move.
They have a very VERY large and untapped supply. The only problem is its hard to get to. Some of the domestic mines in the US closed down as well due to cheap China imports. All this is going to do is fuel alternative material research and supply.

another reason I wish Donald Trump had a milder personality and ran for president.

China is a nun whipping us in the face with a yard stick. The question is...... are we going to learn from it?

Necessity is the mother of invention! This absolute fact and as fast as China horde is minerals I wish USA to horde our own knowledge of how to be energy independent with easy free resources. We can live a nation of prosperity and not be a people of without over population and ignorance like China. We are a nation of quality in all the things; we do and work hard in life and progress! HELLO USA, It is our strife for knowledge, better ourselves, work hard that is our independence, our FREEDOM, our DEMOCRACY and MORE!!!!!!!!!

The Middle East owns all the oil, we have plenty of alternatives available, and yet we use oil products for the vast majority of our energy needs. I don't see this being any different where China is involved when it involves rare-earths...

The world should all boycott China for trying to control the worlds resources that are critical. It's time the world gangs up on China and puts them in there place--which like the little 2 year old girl who got run over twice and ignored by 18 Chinese passerbys--is not fit to be the world's monopoly king.

The United States occupies more than 1000 military bases all over our planet. These bases are there to control the flow of cheap resources and labor, so those in the US who benefit from the massive death and destruction that the United States brings to other people in pursuit of profit for banking and business interests, profits reaped from energy and mineral sources stolen from purposely-impoverished and oppressed people, need not bad-mouth China for their actions.

Suggested reads:

http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

http://www.naomiklein.org/shock-doctrine/the-book

http://www.powells.com/biblio/62-9781604864212-0

The wars (all six of them) that the US is engaged in and the US-imposed dictatorial regimes in the Middle East and Central and South America are all over resources. Afghanistan for example:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-29/u-s-afghan-study-finds-mineral-deposits-worth-3-trillion.html

Libya's overthrow had nothing to do with people seeking democracy:

http://www.rightsmonitoring.org/2011/04/why-the-west-wants-the-fall-of-gaddafi-an-analysis-in-defense-of-the-libyan-rais/

Now Western oil companies are dividing up the oil and gas resources of Libya, just as they are dividing up Iraq's resources.

Quit naively believing the propaganda of Mainstream media script-readers, and do a little research for yourselves to discouver how our world really works. It's always about Empire, and control of resources. Always.

With an impending financial breakdown of their own, this comes as no surprise. If we can move on to another supplier (lets face it, there are plenty) this may shoot China in the foot though. It would be great if we could get our manufacturing out of there as well. Producing our own items again would greatly help our economy and unemployment rate.

Ti....yme! Is on USA side! Yes it is!

House Natural Resources Committee:
Subcommittee on Energy and Mineral Resources -
Oversight Hearing on "Strategic and Critical Minerals Policy: Domestic Minerals Supplies and Demands in a time of Foreign Supply Disruptions"
Testimony of Mr. Ed Richardson
President, U.S. Magnetic Materials Association
May 24, 2011

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R41744.pdf

Some of us have been writing about this issue for a long time, as my articles show from over a year ago.

http://www.newser.com/story/103321/trade-war-china-withholds-rare-minerals-from-us.html
http://www.newser.com/story/104081/china-ends-rare-earth-mineral-embargo.html

Fortunately, the situation has improved and Molycorp has resumed mining of rare earth minerals in the US, projecting that they could meet total US demand by 2012.

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/214938/us_rare_earth_mine_resumes_active_mining.html

Therefore, much of this is the last gasp of China exercising a temporary monopoly. People's hysterical reactions to this are largely based upon ignorance and hype. Yes, rare earth mining is environmentally polluting. China doesn't give a sh*t about polluting right now, but the rest of the world knows that can't keep doing that forever. Yes, we are also working on alternatives to so-called rare earth materials. Anyone who thinks that the US, or any other country, wouldn't try to do the same petty things as China if they were in a position to do so is likely delusional. Also those who want to use this to flog "big government" or "big business" can always spin facts. The fact is that both government policy and corporate greed drove the decision to stop mining in the US, because all parties thought it would be cheaper and easier to rely on China and other countries. Greed is often a short-sighted thing, however, and China has proven that it too can be greedy. The rest is just crying over spilled milk.

Cold fusion man, that's the answer.

If America embraces LFTRs and Thorium we can begin re-mining rare earth minerals in the US.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkC8kItzdZI

@ Palichamp

Regarding your point and link about the Afghan war being about rare earth minerals:

(your link)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-29/u-s-afghan-study-finds-mineral-deposits-worth-3-trillion.html

I think you should look up who has bought the rights to mine those minerals.

China.

We need to do smarter things in the US. For example, how about not just handing over the mineral rights to the recently discovered $1 trillion reserve of lithium metal found in Afghanistan, to the Chinese? We're spilling blood and spending a fortune over there, and the Chinese are getting the mineral rights???

Or, better yet, we should be looking to the future 20-30 years, and planning more in the way of robotic near-Earth asteroid mining for these metals as well. That is definitely achievable with current tech, and a little vision...

@raynre
You're right to point out that China bought it. However, it's probably a chinese company that is owned by americans or other multinationals. US companies do lots of manufacturing in china where the labor is dirt cheap. Also, if you look at where China is in relation to afghanistan,(i.e. right next to it) then it makes sense that they would try to exploit this resource. However, I agree with you and pete that normally it wouldn't make sense for us to do these things. But the problem is that the US military is often put at the service of multinational companies over the interests of the american people who have to fight and die for those corporations to profit.

China is smarter than you know. They will try and control the resources. US does have a ton of them, and so does Canada however, most countries dont have the money to dig them and refine them.

China doesnt care if US really buys from them or not. They will have enough demand to continue to get more money for them. In the end China is looking to hoard its money so no other nation can touch them in manufaturing and delivering all valuable goods around the planet.

No war need be fought when youve created a "crack addict" out of the rest of the world. China will make allies by providing them the cheap resources they need.

In space, think of the unlimited supply of "Helium 3" on the moon? The mining of this mineral will more than pay for the trouble of going to get it. 1500 lbs if it could run a reactor for a very long time. You think China is interested in simple "Space History" of going to the moon? Nope.

In short, while all other countries are on the defensive trying to get their pathetic money in order, Chinas iron grip pays off again as they position themselves to provide the world with everything it needs to manufacture and survive. Making them the real power holder.

It will not be long before Chinas financial power makes it unstoppable. Its first loyal customers? Well, communist countries of course. Long live Communism? They reverse engineer our technology and give it to the rest of the world at a fraction of the cost. Leveling the playing field.

Sadly, its Chinas own 1.2 billion that stand the best chance of making a difference. So weird to me how a government and its people can see so differently. 1.2 billion scared cattle, unfortunately.

Whats scary is that China has to see where this is going to lead to conflicts, and they have im sure. They are a big chess player in the global picture with a lot of interest in world events and resources. Who can guess what their plan is? US vs. China in a hand-to-hand combat? Nope. Sneaky China, how do you plan to circumvent the US in this power grab? Tie us up for just enough time to show the scale is in your favor? That we will just fold when see your unbeatable cards? I am sure that they know that we will not do that either.

They probably love having idiot presidents in office too, bending to the will of the people instead of doing the hard things and stablizing this country.

Keep staring at your TV America. Your country will keep degrading while you do. We gave more interest in picking an American Idol Winner than we did voting for real matters. Sadly, we picked our president on less substance too.

No Christmas. No Halloween. No prayers in school. No prayers in court rooms. No US flags allowed to hang outside your homes. No use of words that cause "other", immigrant US citizens, any type of negative feelings.

Did anyone really think, when they were deciding on giving freedom to everyone who showed up in America, what the religious diversity would do? The conflicts it would bring that tie up our countries courts and create rediculous loopholes in our consitution?

Wake up America. If you don't want to shoot a gun then avoid it by standing up now, for the things that make this country great. Praise Jesus, Apple Pie, American Flags, American Free Spirit, Halloween and Christmas! Christmas, Christmas, Christmas, Christmas!!! Amen.

We are going down. Put the oxygen mask on yourself first, then put it on your foreign friends after our country is safe.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

But they are socialists. Shouldn't they let the world have them?

D13 doesn't have a clue. Naturally, he thinks he's some kind of genius, when he's actually the reason that many Americans are too ignorant to compete with China. It's because people like him think they have it all figured out that we wasted all this time screaming about the "(phony) War on Christmas" and "hanging the Ten (Commandments)", even though there is no such thing as the Ten Commandments in the Bible.

As far as the science, Helium 3 is a ridiculous fuel source. For one thing, it's not nearly as abundant as some people seem to think on the Moon. It would require extensive processing of tons of lunar regolith to provide even a tiny amount of fuel. It's not clear why people would waste that effort when they can get far more abundant energy in space just by using a solar collector. The sun is always shining when you're in space, as long as nothing is blocking you.

Jesus didn't make this country great. People using their brains, instead their stone age superstitions, are what made this country great. If anyone wants to debate this then head over to biblicalaaronc.blogspot.com. I know the Bible a lot better than most bible literalists and I'm happy to show you why it's often just a bunch of BS.

aarontco,

To call you ignorant doesnt quite cover it. Im sure your good at spotting know-it-alls as your display of crap shows you are one. Your facts on Helium 3 are so wrong that Im surprised you typed them.
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"We will provide the most reliable report on helium-3 to mankind," Ouyang Ziyuan, the chief scientist of China's lunar program, told a Chinese newspaper. "Whoever first conquers the moon will benefit first."
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ill be happy to post many more physicists thoughts on the matter and many acreddited sources. I just thought I would call you out first. American-like.

Its not kool to live in the Holiday Inn Express. You suppose to leave and come back. Give your brain a chance to understand what youve watched.

Anyways, as I alluded to earlier, energy/manufacturing race is on. Dont listen to Holiday Inn, he just one of those who cant grasp it, therefore it cant be true. Aarontco, that loud popping sound is your head coming out of your butt. It will be followed by sunshine and fresh air. Keep trying.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

@arontco : ...oh ya and Merry Christmas! If I don't see-ya-for then.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

D13,
No, I know far more than you about it, and I also can write, unlike you, with your vritually illiterate rambling. Your so called source was propaganda garbage.
The fact is that He3 is found at 20 parts per billion in regolith. Getting it extracted and off the moon and back to Earth would currently be way more expensive than producing it in reactors. There is platinum on the moon too. Why don't you go mine that and get back to us.

Furthermore, there is no reason to think the Chinese could set up massive industrial operations on this scale on the Moon when they haven't even landed there once yet. They would not be the first on the Moon either, so there would be no conquering involved. We already went there 40 years ago, so they would have no legal priority, nor could they control every square inch of the Moon militarily and keep other nations off it. This is just propaganda by people silly enough to think they can hype another space race and a cold war between the US and China.

Shove your Christmyth, since you're too much of a coward to come to my site and debate me.

aarontco - you are dumbass. i dont need to debate you. i know that i "know". do you? since your facts on He3 are so good, have you read any survey data? from the moon? no? oh, well maybe you should stop spitting it out like you really know how much He3 is up there. I think we all know you dont. Anyone here can quickly search and know your wrong, so ill let them. im done wasting my time. learn to read. learn to comprehend. post your lunar survey data and i may respond. until then ill continue to report the facts as they are stated by the many more intelligent than you. please take my lack of spelling as a personal insult as well. Oh and no, not just the US and China are the only ones planning to mine, the obviously miniscual amount of, Helium 3 but Russia as well. Debate? haha what a doucher. stand in the mirror and look important to yourself. i make comments on here about the detriment of these technologies, as well as, some of the good. i just dont think science is pure fantasy that creates magic for humans. first we have to deal with that imperfect thing developing and using the tech. sorry Holiday Inn, your still "human". and dont get jealous i got the fire in me. its that little tweak in me that keeps me studying and researching more than you. god bless us all and save from the arrogant like aarontco.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

D13,
I already told you how much he3 you can expect -- 20 parts per billion. So you only have to process a measly billion tons of lunar regolith to get about 20 tons of it and then you have to move this 20 tons somewhere that needs it, like all the way back to Earth. What does it cost to get something onto the surface of the Moon? Only around a million dollars a pound. How much mining and processing equipment will the Chinese need to bring to process a billion tons of regolith. Maybe they could squeak by with a few thousand tons of equipment. Oh, but I'm sure they're going to build things on site, right? That will take more equipment to smelt and manufacture.

Son, I was reading about helium 3 schemes when you were still crapping in your diaper.

And you're the one who tried to turn this into a rant about religion and multiculturalism. Now you don't have the guts to actually defend any of that, or the alleged science that you said you had.

Ok Aarontco, I digress and I answer you. Forget the fact that only a small amount of it would power our country for a long time, and forget that the cost of getting a small amount of it would be minimal compared to the energy costs involved in running this country for a single day even, guess what? There is already a market for it. Yep our current tritium breaks down into He3 and its sold in certain markets. Besides the fact that it has less nuclear waste and produces more energy, than current tritium, it takes less of it and it makes a perfect fuel source (next to Boron 11) for our ever growing planet. You will need that energy to run your waste of a website.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

Did I mention there is already a market for it? Now, lets get down some other points too. Your 20 parts per billion is relative to the amount of concentration in a given area. Most of the stuff is right on the surface too, not burried deep in the Regolith. Maybe you would dig deeper around craters "maybe" but lets get it all straight. Only the initial cost of the getting the mining equiptment up there is expensive part and its still, from end-to-end, around $250m - $500m. Once its there though, it producing with only 600 watts a day, over 300kg of the stuff, already processed. Thats small though. Imagine what your abundant "solar power" is really going to produce do in space though...produce much more than 600 watts, I assure you. So there you go, I agree that your soloar power is quite useful at producing energy. (The energy needed for robots to process He3 on the moon :D )

Now, so much to talk about but I think this will do it best, and this was quite public:

Today, the world's supply of Helium-3 can be counted in hundreds of kilograms, and the value of 100 kg would be $400M. So it may be assumed that the total stockpile value today is roughly about one billion USD. The US DOE does sell He3 commercially, but how much of the present stockpile has actually been sold on the open market is an open question. Assuming that someone were to start at the level of collecting 100kg of He3 from the Moon and assume its value would be $400M, the cost of soft landing even a small probe on to the lunar surface may easily cost more than $200M. How much He3 a small lander would manufacture and how many grams per day have yet to be determined. Production will be determined by the method of processing.

A commonly discussed method is cooking the regolith to about 1400 degrees Fahrenheit or 760 degrees Celsius. They describe three steps: 1) heat to a few hundred deg C to drive off the volatiles 2) fractional distillation to decant off the heavy volatiles 3) separate He3 from the He4 using the standard superleak process. Two challenges are devising a method to process large quantities of regolith as the He3 is at a low concentration, and providing a high power thermally efficient heat source on the Moon. This would need a large amount of energy, requiring the lander to have either a nuclear source (either Nuclear Fission or RTG), or large solar panels. Basalt has specific heat capacity of 0.24 degreeC or 0.84 KJkg degreeK. To heat 1kg of basalt by 700 degrees Celsius requires about 600 KJ. The highest concentration of He3 in the Maria regions is 0.01ppm in the regolith. This means that 600 KJ will yield 0.01 milligrams of He3. Using these numbers, a 600 Watt power source could produce 0.01 milligrams of He3 per second : 0.6 mg/minute : 36mg/hour : 864mg/day : 315 grams per year. Whether this business concept is viable depends on how quickly a group or entity wants to amortize their investment. If an arbitrary target is to produce 100 kg He3 in one year, then a power source of about 200 KW would be needed. That would give a revenue stream of $400M per year if the He3 market does not become flooded causing a price drop.

A Solar Power based system would be in darkness 50 percent of the time, so would need to operate at 400 KW. If it were on a lunar polar mountain top it might be in near continuous illumination. Assuming a best case scenario of 100 percent lighting, 10 percent photo voltaic efficiency and a fully steerable array, this would need an area of about 2000 square meters, or about 45 meters on a square side. A simple non-PV solar reflector could be near 100 percent efficient, needing only 200 square meters or about 14 meters on a square side, or aperture. Setting up a 14 meter aperture mirror on the Moon would be a major engineering challenge, although it would not need to be particularly accurate as in the case of an astronomical telescope mirror."

I did not make any argument about rel i gion, it was about the traditions and beliefs that made this country. Please be quiet now.

So glad to meet your ego too, Im sure the person behind it is less interesting.

Good day sir.

Ooops, I meant 800kg a year running at 600w per/day. My bad. I opened the can and so much poured out. Got all giddy and fat fingered :)

OH yes, one more thing... in true popsci "what-if" fassion (that makes this site great) : could we maybe send the material back on a rocket powered drone? Maybe a missile shot from the moon (parachute included)? Oh crap, I just cut off millions more on shipping?! Hahahaha taste it in your mouth.

Later dude.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

You know it use to cost an extremeley huge amount of money to make antimatter too. "in 1999 NASA gave a figure of $62.5 trillion per gram of antihydrogen."

That figure came down to 250 billion per gram in 2006. Mining He3 will be done. Just make sure your kids look at the untouched moon before it starts getting mined. I personally hope we don't mine the moon but, we will. Just like the Chinese Scientist said, its all about who gets there first. Their hope is that our economy prevents us from being that first person. They are closing in fast. I bet there first steps on the moon will be carrying a rig for mining too.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

"Today, the world's supply of Helium-3 can be counted in hundreds of kilograms, and the value of 100 kg would be $400M"
Well for one thats statement is wrong.
I think your confusing helium-3 and tritium.
The us government used to make tritium all the time but since it turns into helium-3 after a sort time, Its supply is allways been low.

The supply of helium-3 is massive however. All that tritium that degraded? Well the us government stores the helium in giant underground storage facilities and sells it at under value to the world market.

And since extracting normal helium-2 is super expensive. The us government is now the worlds largest supplier of heliem gas. And its all H-3.

Ok next thing wrong fact.
"Only the initial cost of the getting the mining equiptment up there is expensive part and its still, from end-to-end, around $250m - $500m"
That would be the price of a single lift rocket to Low earth orbit.
Carring maybe 300 tons (i'm going to be genours here just use that as the base.)
That rocket could probaly lift about 200 of those tons to lunar orbit. then you have to land all the equpment which is another 50-100 tons in landing fuel and rockets.

So you have sent up about 100-150 tons with your 500 million dollars. That would probably just be the hab module and air, water, and food for a year (being generous here).

so you would probably need 7 of those rockets to send up all the mining supply and the miners. So your total already is around 4 billion.
So you will process your billion tons of regolith in a year and ship your miners and the helium home on another rocket. (total: 4.5 billion)
ok lets say 20 tons of H-3 is about 100 million square feet. the current market price is 75$ per 1000 cubic feet.
all that helium would sell for about 75 million dollars and your investors would now murder you for the rest of there 4.42 billion dollars.

i dont think you want me to even touch on your solar panel theory.....

@ lonefox (aaronto sidekick), your math is rediculous. Ive already proven my point. You have proven nothing accept that you don't plan missions to the moon very often. You have no concept of how much anything costs and you have no idea what the most cost effective way of getting equiptment to the moon is. You don't how much weight per load and you don't know how many loads. You don't know how much the eqiptment costs/weighs either. In fact, you know less than aarontco. I would almost say your the same person if I were to judge you on your recipe for "practical". Assume you don't have a very good self perception and that no one else understands you either.

You have more than enough time to research this yourself and talk to aarontco about it. He has a website too that you should go and chat with him on. Toodles! Point. Set. Match.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

d13,
You apparently aren't any better with calculations than you are with grammar. I don't know lonefox,but presumably even he recognizes that 0.01 ppm would mean 10 ppb, which is worse than the figure I quoted. This would mean 0.01 g per metric ton,throwing the rest of your figures off by a factor of a thousand. I'm glad you're not planning our lunar missions. Your estimate that it would only cost $250 to 500 million for the mining equipment seems to be pulled out of thin air / your backside. Just launching a single shuttle cost more than that. It seems that you're off by at least a factor of a 1000 on that too.

It takes 18 tons of tritium to make a ton of he3, but at least you don't have to go to the moon and robotically mine thousands of tons of moon dust, maintain that system remotely, and then have a launch system to send it back to Earth. Your proposal that it would be sent back to Earth via an autonomous rocket and parachute, is beyond obvious, but it wouldn't save you any money -- that would simply be added expense. What would save you money is not having to waste it on this ridiculous (note spelling) proposal. BTW I guess nobody has ever told you but that little wavy line under the word when you type it means that it's spelled wrong. Just thought you should know.

As to some of the other stupidity, the moon is 39.7 million square kilometers. Even if the Chinese were dumb enough to want to waste money trying to mine thousands of tons of moon dust, they would not need even a fraction of this area to do it. You keep quoting some dipstick who says it's all about being there first. The US was already there first, 40 years ago. China would have no claim on the Moon, nor could they defend 40 million square kilometers from other nations who wanted to land. Besides, if China pulled this kind of thing then they the rest of world would boycott them and it would destroy them economically. We don't have to destroy them militarily. Our economies are too interdependent for this kind of silliness.

As far as you not bringing up religion, you very certainly said, "Praise Jesus,... and Christmas! Christmas, Christmas, Christmas, Christmas!!! Amen." Yes, beliefs and traditions are part of religion too, so that dodge doesn't work either. We didn't get to the Moon because we believed in Jesus. People believed in Jesus for 1900 year and it never got them to the Moon. People believed in modern rocket science for less than 100 years and it got them there. You can criticize my website all you want, but you're clearly too illiterate to have any kind of website of your own. And I'm sure your arguments in favor of religion are no better than your grammar or your arguments for he3 mining.

d13, d17, d-whaterver,
It's hilarious that you think lonefox is a sock puppet for me, when you clearly have multiple sock puppets of your own. You will notice that lonefox, while he writes way better than you, still has lots of typos and uncapitalized words. Actually, I guess you *wouldn't* notice that, since you don't know how to do that either. However, people who have better writing skills (and therefore necessarily better reading skills) than you do notice these things. Both he and I only touched on the very beginning of all the things that wrong with your proposal.

However, I will say that, in fairness to you, that I had never heard that the US government was selling he3 for bargain basement prices. My information says it's much more expensive, but still not expensive enough to warrant mining a billion tons of moondust to get. The US certainly has a bunch of tritium, used for warhead miniaturization, and it does have a very short half life. However, I don't see he3 being anywhere near as abundant as he2, which can often be found in natural gas wells. He2 stockpiles are dwindling, but I was not aware that anyone was proposing using he3 to make up the shortfall.

BTW D137 whatever, your quote from the Matrix and the general philosophy of the world as "maya" or illusion is very clearly based upon non-christian religious traditions, especially Buddhist and Hindu worldviews. I just thought you should know that you are making baby Jebus cry every time you use it. I guess you'll end up in hell with the rest of us after all. Won't that be a shock for you?

Ill take you trying to convert me, to your weird faithless world, as my deserved respect. Ill take your "...in all fairness to you..." as your defeat. You came here a know-it-all and an expert on China, Rare Earth Oxides, He3, "The Bible" and a loud mouth critic. You failed at every chance to prove your knowledge on the subjects. You leave here just a fake and a loud mouth.

I gave you proof:

1.) I show you a market already existing for it.

2.) A $400 million/yr revenue stream from a "cracker-jack-setup" with a single 600w/day refining lander.

3.) A Country (mentioned in, and relevent to, this article) that is saying they are going there to mine it AND are pumping up their space program, complete with inflatable pods, to go to the moon.

What part you dont get?

You are devoid of the real "imagination" that it takes to be truly intelligent. Your big mouth and choices of pointless battles shows a lack of patience that further proves your no scientist. Your arrogance and what you thought you knew prevented you from checking the pulse again. It has been 36 years since Ive been in diapers (which is when you were reading your data on He3). Your material was really, really, old. So, revel in your grammar douchebag. Its all you got. I follow syntax all day, so I dont really care if you like my literary skills. So far no one has had a problem getting the point.

Your either just trying to cloud the lens or your just a fan trying to get a little spotlight and street cred. No shame in that. Just quit pissing off the locals while you do it. No one cares whos wrong. Not like they are really counting your commas there Holiday Inn. They wont remember your whole pointless babble. Only the parts they felt were facts. Be smart enough to pick the terds from the brownies yourself. We all here to learn, in the end.

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

d13,
You haven't defeated anyone about anything. Your math was soundly disproven. The correct calculations show that you would produce too little at too high a cost to justify mining the moon for anything. Lonefox's figures might may or may not be accurate either, but he certainly showed that he3 from tritium is far more practical than your proposal. I know you think "practical" is a dirty word, but the world needs mmore practicality and less clueless dreamers like yourself. I have plenty of imagination, and am clearly far more intelligent than you, but I don't let my imagination turn into wishful thinking and fantasy like you do.

You have not refuted anything on any other subject either, most especially on religion. Perhaps you're not smart enough to understand any of this, but you're the only one here who is acting unjustifiably arrogant and overconfident about things that you demonstrably have not examined closely enough.

BTW, if your reference to following syntax is that you are a software developer, my first undergraduate degree was in computer science, and I've developed plenty of software, so you don't have that over me either.

@aaroncto the 10 commandments were mentioned in the Bible. It’s in Exodus.

@Palichamp, I wish more people thought like you. Most are all too happy to swallow the lies and propaganda the banks tell us to believe.

d whatever,
Grow a pair and actually try to refute anything I say about religion (or anything else) because you haven't even come close so far. There are plenty of things on my blog site you can disagree with. Just take your best shot. If you think you know more about the Bible than I do then feel free to point out where that is. Except that we both know that you don't and can't respectively.

I dont really care. Enjoy your life. We will see soon enough who is right. Since China has said that they were going to do it, theres a market for it, they have the money and have a space program, how correct I am will be apparent soon enough. Also, I really dont care about your opinions on the bible. Keep them to yourself. Like I do. Doesnt matter who made your universe 'Holiday Inn' you will just boil yourself down to a 3D perception in a 2D phenomenon, endlessly trying to pick apart the reason for life. Those of us with Faith will be living the life your wasting. Your science is for nothing but yourself. My science is for everyone. Whats weird is that we are both using the same science?! Get some faith in something and clean your lens 'Holiday Inn'. Otherwise, everything you look at will be just a little off.

Here is to Hopes that Boron-11 take over before the He3 mining gets to the moon. Good luck on your blog and have a great day!

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

@Aldrons Last Hope
"the 10 commandments were mentioned in the Bible. It’s in Exodus."

LOL. Thanks for the "tip", but there are not 10 of them there, in either part of Exodus. There are actually four different sets of the so-called "Ten commandments", which are mentioned in Exodus 20, Exodus 34, Leviticus 20/24, and Deuteronomy 5. None of these commandments are consistent with each other in terms of numbering or wording, so breaking them into ten commands is pretty arbitrary. The Hebrew bible is full of commands (613 of them by some accounts), so picking 10 of them that are not particularly summative is an exercise in selectivity. For more info, see for example:

http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm or

http://www.atheists.org/Hang_the_Commandments_--_All_30_of_Them

Then there is the issue of whether they are separate commandments when they say, don't covet your neighbor's wife versus not coveting anything that he owns (wives were property). Why not just say "don't covet your neighbors stuff, wives included". However, as George Carlin pointed out, if we didn't "covet" stuff it would destroy capitalism and the American way. Our whole economy is built on coveting. Anyway, if you're not supposed to covet another man's wife then adultery would already be covered too. But if you want to discuss this, feel free to visit the blog.

@aaroncto Exodus 20 clearly lists all 10 commandments. As you said it is just worded differently. The traditional ten commandments is an "interpretation"

But I have a great way to settle this debate

To each their own.

Meaning people's beliefs are their beliefs. Arguing if they are real or not is not going to change anyone's opinion, just serves to create animosity.

I take it you don't believe in Jesus, but I do, and because of this conversation I picked up the bible that has been sitting on my bookshelf untouched since it was put there over two years ago. The lord works in mysterious ways :D

@aldron
You obviously didn't read the links I gave you. I'm glad to hear you picked up a Bible, though I see no mention of Jesus in Exodus 20 or 34:

Here are some of the commandments side by side:
Exodus 20, Commandment 3:
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.

Exodus 34 Commandment 3:
The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep in the month when the ear is on the corn.

Exodus 20, Commandment 4:
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 34 Commandment 4:
All the first-born are mine.

Exodus 20, Commandment 6:
You shall not kill.

Exodus 34 Commandment 6:
Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first fruits of the wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

Exodus 20 Commandment 7:
You shall not commit adultery.

Exodus 34 Commandment 7:
Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leavened bread.

Exodus 20, Commandment 8:
You shall not steal.

Exodus 34, Commandment 8
The fat of my feast shall not remain all night until the morning.

Exodus 20, Commandment 9:
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Exodus 34, Commandment 9:
The first of the first fruits of thy ground thou shalt bring unto the house of the Lord thy God.

Exodus 20, Commandment 10:
You shall not covet.

Exodus 34, Commandment 10:
Thou shalt not seethe a kid in its mother's milk.

So you're telling me that's saying the same thing in different words, and to each his own? Sorry, there are more than cosmetic differences there.

@aarontco I did go to that link and will address their argument of "30 commandments" here.

In Exodus ch20 v2-v17, the first 17 verses clearly gives the 10 commandments. v2 and v3 have been merged into 1 commandment in the "interpretation" of the 10 commandments. I am the Lord thy God and you will put no other Gods before me.

The Israelite's were freed and wandering in the dessert for "40 years" maybe more, maybe less, but a lifetime at least. They needed laws to govern themselves. Exodus and Deuteronomy have many laws, but the first 11 in Exodus are taken as the 10 commandments, the most important and basic laws needed for a civil society.

No mention of Jesus, you are right, Jesus came thousands of years later.

You can't deny there is profound wisdom in the Bible, regardless if you take it literally or not, there is profound wisdom in that book.

aldron,
You don't make much of an argument for which form of the ten commandments you want. Even those in verses 2 through 17 add up to more than ten requirements, and they certainly cannot be reconciled with other parts of the bible about not boiling a goat in its mothers milk, for example, though it is a law that observant Jews keep. That's why they separate meat and dairy products in a kosher kitchen.

There might be some wisdom in the bible, along with some outdated foolishness. Bible literalism is by far the most foolish way that anyone could try to read the bible. One is guaranteed to find no wisdom that way.

Seriously, Aldron, you got sucked into that crap? He is doing two things here:

1.) He is making it a religious conversation so people stop giving the science on here any credit.

2.) He is sucking you into the only thing he knows. He uses the facts to distort the truth. To prove "his" truth. You will never be right so just ignore him. He is trying to be some sort of intellectual something. Anarchist? He is still is so exostential that he had to learn this stuff. He has no idea who he is. Probably a kid or something.

Anyways, dont get sucked in. Let him type to himself? 'Holiday Inn', the Ten commandments on Popsci? Doucher

"Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no spoon."

@D13 it's cool I enjoy conversing with atheists

@aarontco you have to remember the Bible as we know it was compiled from thousands of years of writings. Even if it was perfect when it was communicated, human hands have distorted it, that's why you will find minor inconsistencies. Don't get caught up looking for inconsistencies. Look to the overall message. It's like watching the Matrix and giving it 1/10 on IMDB because switch was wearing red earnings in 1 scene and blue in the next. You'd be missing the whole point.

Like I said before, Exodus v2-17 have 11 commandments, v2 & v3 are combined making the 10 commandments. That is my point.

So as an atheist why do you feel like you have to convert the believers? It's an exercise in futility. Some people, all they have is their faith...why take that away.

Let me give you an example...

I have a friend that worked in my old lab. He was an immigrant from Ghana. When he came to Canada 5 years ago, he had no one here, no parents, no friends, no siblings. He was Christian and joined a local Church. I went to his wedding last month...now he has lots of friends, a beautiful wife and a family to lean on. Church helps a lot of people in this cold world. I guess he could have joined an atheist club, but I doubt it would have brought him as much happiness as Jesus has.

@aldron,
As Bart Erdman pointed out there are more inconsistencies in the Bible than the total number of words in Bible. These are not minor in any sense, and the idea that there was an original, perfect version of it is absurd. It was not all written at the same time and people picked and chose from numerous texts in order to build the Bible we have today. Even if there were no inconsistencies, which there are many, and no transcription errors, which abound, it is written in such vague and idiomatic language that many verses could mean a hundred different things and there is no truly effective way of determining what the author might have really meant. Thus it gets twisted to suit any agenda.

All that said, I made absolutely no attempt to convert you to anything. I simply informed you of the facts. You keep ignoring those facts, saying that you are cool with Exodus 20, even though you ignore other commands from Exodus 20, and can't reconcile them with other parts of the bible that claim the tablets of moses said different things entirely.

It might feel good for people to believe any number of false things. However, we are in a technological age where believing things without critical analysis can be very dangerous. I'm not trying to take anybody's faith away. However, it should neither be considered a virtue nor a source of joy that people claim to believe things without adequate reasons.

As far as d13, don't worry about that M0r*n. He knows nothing about science or religion and I clearly know more about all those topics than he does. He pretends to think that I'm some teenager when I already understood that Harrison Schmidt's hair-brained scheme for he3 mining was garbage back when he was still crapping in his diaper. Actually, on that last score, d13 probably is still crapping himself, so maybe that is not the most reliable indicator of his age. In any event, he clearly is not prepared to explore either science or religion seriously. If he were then he would know that he3-he3 fusion has not even been demonstrated at break even energy. If he were then he would also be prepared to discuss even one specific issue in religion. He doesn't because he can't.

"I'm glad you're not planning our lunar missions. Your estimate that it would only cost $250 to 500 million for the mining equipment seems to be pulled out of thin air / your backside. Just launching a single shuttle cost more than that. It seems that you're off by at least a factor of a 1000 on that too."

I was pulling numbers out of my @ss. And i was making everything a bunch cheaper just to prove the point that his math is complete and utter maddens.
And i was assuming he was just stealing the equipment and that was only the shipping costs. XD

ok disputing your numbers again.
-----------------------------------------------------------
1.) I show you a market already existing for it.

2.) A $400 million/yr revenue stream from a "cracker-jack-setup" with a single 600w/day refining lander.

3.) A Country (mentioned in, and relevent to, this article) that is saying they are going there to mine it AND are pumping up their space program, complete with inflatable pods, to go to the moon.
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1. well there is a market for helium, so you win there.

2.Maybe if you could ship back 1 billion cubic feet of H3 a year you could get that kind of money nowadays.

3.true so you win there.

But the 3rd one is beyond the point. Right now there is no market for H3 just Helium in general. That and the fact that most of the helium on the market is H3

No religious garbage, please.

If you want to talk about religion can't you PM each other or something? This is entirely off topic and both of you are arguing things that really don't matter.

Who cares what the "real" 10 Commandments are? It's not like people follow them anyways.

Chinese. Obviously the superior race. Westerners? Dumb and on the wrong foot, always.