FYI: Where Is The Center of the Universe?

It's right here, duh...

Our origin, single point is everywhere.... Perhaps more explanation is necessary or I have much more 'thunking' to do, lol.

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Science sees no further than what it can sense, i.e. facts.
Religion sees beyond the senses, i.e. faith.
Open your mind and see!

I apologize but every time I run into the balloon analogy I laugh a little as my mental image of the universe pops. Does this happen to anyone else?

Shouldn't it still have a center somewhere though? ie if the universe has dimensions, if there is an outer expanding edge somewhere, then shouldn't you still be able to measure a center point?

If I understand correctly- someone, somewhere was told I'll pay you "X" amount of dollars to find out where the center of the universe is. That person came back and said "In the beginning, the universe was a single point. Where was that? It was, and still is, everywhere."

To me this doesn't answer the question... at all. If everything was moving away from everything else in the universe, and at the same speed, shouldn't we be able to calculate the origin of when it all started?

The balloon theory doesn't work for me, because when you blow a balloon up with air, you still have a center, all the dots on the outside of the balloon are in fact NOT, in the center of the balloon. The center would be inside the balloon, dividing the diameter of two opposite sides. Am I right?

@justhamilton, the balloon is a 2-dimensional analogy of what happened. When the balloon inflates, every dot on the balloon's surface moves farther away from every other dot on the surface of the balloon. Ignore the inner volume of the balloon. So looking from any dot on the balloon's surface, it appears it is the center of expansion because every other dot on the surface is moving away from it. Now imagine it in 3-dimensions and you have the inflationary expansion described by the Big Bang theory. It's a little hard to get your head around, but the measurements and the math show that's what's happening. Even crazier, everything in the universe is moving away from everything else at an ever-increasing pace. Where is the energy that is accelerating the expansion of the universe? That's where dark energy comes in, which theoretically accounts for 71% of the matter/energy in the universe (remember energy and matter are interchangeable as Einstein explained).

So if I were to travel at a speed fast enough to make the venture effective in a single direction I would eventually end up where I start?

@justhamilton, if it helps, imagine the earth's surface as a balloon. If it was inflated, every city would move away from every other city.

So the point is the circle around everything and we are 'in the point'. It is basically correct and vague at the same time. The central point is relative to where you are, at the time you ask and we are all speeding away further out into nothingness.
So the answer to this question very well maybe pointless!
It is funny and yet is true, who knew!

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense, i.e. facts.
Religion sees beyond the senses, i.e. faith.
Open your mind and see!

I use to tell people that if you assume the universe is infinite then it expands equally from any given point. Therefore I am the center of the universe. Now I don't even have to assume the universe is infinite to prove my point.

all the balloons move away from each other on the surface but the center is there. When you start out the balloon was small. So let that represent the point that is talked about in the big band theory. When you blow it up it moves away from that original point. all the points are moving away from each. on the 2d surface of the balloon, it looks like the dots are moving away from each other because the surface they are on is getting stretched. Now when you look at the 3d picture of near spherical object, you can see that the dots are in fact all moving away from the point where the balloon was deflated. So thats my take, I dont know if the math supports that but there is always the fourth spacial dimension to think about, like if we were on a dot on the balloon and we were flat. we could only perceive two spacial dimensions. Now to them it looks like all the dots are moving away from each other because they cant perceive the third dimension of depth. So there might be a 4th or even more dimensions that we just cant perceive because we have only dealt with 3

Sparta Volunteer Ambulance Squad...Stopping natural selection since 1947

If the universe has finite dimensions, it must have a center.

The precept of the article is both true and false. It depends on the way you look at it. Do you look at from the outside looking in at the universe then its true the point is everywhere as space itself expands. But if you look at from the point of view we look at everything within a defined 3d space that exists around us then its false. There is a center that everything is rushing away from. It would be cool to know where that is.

Reading this brought a previous thought of mine back to me. If the universe is only estimated to be between 14 and 14.5 billion years old then how can scientists (astronomers) justify saying the the observable universe is 40+ billion light years across and that is only the observable universe. It should theoretically be only about 28 to 29 billion light years across unless space expands faster that light travels. The only thing that might allow for a 45 billion light year size observable universe is with einstein's idea of curved space which based off of current knowledge would be caused through gravity and centripetal force which would then require a central point. NOTE: I do only have a limited knowledge of physics, I'm a high school student.

If everyone on here is asking whether or not the big bang has been modeled, then the answer is no. If we are asking if any one things' trajectory till now has been modeled, then no. If no+no, then no physical determination of spatial origin could possibly be assured.

FRACTALS!

It makes more sense when you realize that what you call "gravity" is actually a repulsive force. Cheers!
Also *yosifcuervo* the universe has infinite dimensions, which allows for everywhere to be simultaneously everywhere-else.
If fractal-based re-iteration occurs in this universe, then every point of time and space ever is reiterated in every other point of time and space ever. This sounds recursive because it is! Circles within circles, quantum foam makes crazies like us roam!
:D

There are an infinite number of universes so what good is knowing the center of our own? What is the center of ALL of the universes? Does it matter? Is the center moving?

Who cares?

Not I.

Why? Because if more people spent MORE time thinking about how we can improve mother earth then there wouldn't be so many wars, so many killings, so much starvation, so much raping, so much pain and suffering.

Fix that first then move on to Bigger thoughts.

Putting the cart before the horse usually kills the horse!

So because of fractals, Dorothy need not find the Wizard or use her emerald slippers, but in fact she was always home.

Well if fractals is dreaming and dreaming is another way to different dimensions, so yes Dorothy did wake up from a dream, all you said is true.

So at last I know it! The Munchkins are real and just live an alternate fractual dimensional universe than our own.

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense, i.e. facts.
Religion sees beyond the senses, i.e. faith.
Open your mind and see!

The world is flat and has no ends. No ends = No center = No beginning. The never ending storrrryyyyy.

If the Big Bang started space expanding in all directions, just look for a spot in the universe that appears to be standing still :) Of course it may be devoid of normal matter and not be visable, but maybe thats where all the Dark Matter/Energy is ;)

Rose Pastore's answer reflects prevailing beliefs of modern cosmologists.
But despite my education, I am not ashamed to admit my incomprehension -- that the universe's center (what was a singularity) "was and still is everywhere."
And I don't understand how cosmic expansion and cosmic background radiation constitute "proof" of this. Were steps of reasoning omitted from her explanation?
Perhaps a feature-size article is warranted.

This makes no sense, it is a mathematical fix for a misinterpret phenomenon. Redshift is most-likely an effect similar to gravitational lensing as one commenter points out, relevant to the exponential longterm expanding influence of our solar system in the universe. As an analogy; place a heat element (lamp/sun) in the middle of the swimming pool (Water/Medium/Aether/DarkMatter/HiggsField) and the water surrounding that element will heat up, and those vibrations will proportionally shift up, just like Red shift does. From our view point it is impossible to spot the difference between reality and/or the illusion that everything is moving further away.

so let me get this straight... the entire universe IS the center? because ALL of space expanded? OK then wheres the center of this ever enlarging center we call the universe? I just cant get away from the idea that regardless of HOW we came to this volume/size/shape of the universe, (big bang or little burp) that there must be a center. Unless the universe is infinite... wherefore, "there is no center" and "all points are the center" are both correct statements. So I agree with a previous comment that there is no point to this at this point. Theres just not enough data to hypothesize.

Today's magic is tomorrow's technology.

Uldis Sprogis The big bang is a theoretical myth. We are moving away from some stars and towards others. There should be a red shift for the stars we are moving away from and no red shift for the stars that we are moving closer to. The origins of the universe myth is explained in my book HOW TO CHANGE THE WORLD: HOW TO SAVE THE WORLD; THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERYTHING.

As I ask my sweet wife, where is the center of the Universe.
She reply, she is the center of my Universe and I should not forget it.
I simply replied. Yes dear. ..... ;)

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense, i.e. facts.
Religion sees beyond the senses, i.e. faith.
Open your mind and see!

Most people have a problem visualizing this because they imagine the big bang as matter exploding from a single point into empty space.

The big bang is an explosion of space itself. Space is a fabric that has no edges. If you travel in one direction you could never be outside the universe, no matter how far you traveled. You would always be surrounding by the universe's spidery web of matter in all directions. This structure continues in all directions without end. Eventually, if you travel far enough, you may end up back where you started (if the universe is closed).

The universe only appears to have an edge because we cannot see objects more than 14 billion light years away. This is due to the age of the universe, the speed of light, and the expansion since the big bang.

It is also important to differentiate between the universe and the *observable* universe. The observable universe is finite, has a boundary, and Earth is at the center; while the universe may or may not be finite, has no boundaries, and thus no center.

Neil deGrasse Tyson uses a ship on the ocean analogy in this discussion: (at ~7 min)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9zXYTwuwsyI

A wiki to help you visualize the possible shapes of the universe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe

360 degrees around the earth in three dimensions, the densities of stars and galaxies seems to be about the same. This argues for a homogeneous universe and not one that is expanding or contracting.

So,if I understand correctly, everything in the Universe is it's center?

@Rhydius LOL That happened to me too!!!

Creation Physics

WITHOUT A CENTER OF GRAVITY:
Science can find no center of gravity for the Universe yet all assemblies (whether Galaxies, solar systems or planets) within the Universe have centers of gravity. Very puzzling! The answer becomes apparent when and only when it is acknowledged that all that exists, whether seen or unseen, is the product of Divine “Energy”.

Divine energy, the energy of Einstein’s E = Mc2, has no physical presence. It exists as a “singularity” where time is instantaneous, where each of the particles of “energy” has an inherent affinity for each other. Therefore; with no physical presence and an inherent affinity, all of the energy involved in creation of the Universe existed at one point, a singularity. Then, with the command “let there be light”, the Divine energy particles of the singularity were charged with the energy that, after transformation by Protons, produces the effects we call Light and Heat. Then, as has been proven, like charged particles repel like charge particles, which establishes a Yin – Yang (attraction and repulsion) behavior characteristic and the singularity instantly expands to establish equilibrium in response to those forces. By that response to Yin – Yang, space was created, which then introduced time. However, the resulting Universe remained/s a singularity; that is, one ubiquitous charge and one ubiquitous cluster of Divine energy particles with no physical presence, existing in equilibrium.

The creation of physical matter began when (for whatever reason whether through intelligent intent or due to “natural selection”) the distance between particles became unbalanced whereupon the resulting assembly of two neutrinos acquired double the attraction power of a single neutrino, which assembly grew (evolved) into what is called a Neutron (1,839 Neutrinos), which being unstable, continued to self-compressed until a new equilibrium of forces was reached. We call the resulting assembly at equilibrium a Proton and the Neutrino ejected in the process of transformation, an Electron. Those assemblies then acquired a physical presence. That is, the Neutron/Proton assemblies (the Proton assembly includes the ejected Electron) possess attraction power 1,840 times that of an isolated Neutrino, which power acts from the center of the assembly, or as we have designated, the center of gravity. In that manner, matter with a physical presence was created.

With their own independent power to attract Neutrinos (gravity or gravitational attraction) and with the Protons power to attract Electrons, those particles are fundamental to all subsequent creation both visible and invisible. Furthermore; it is the Electron attracting energy radiated by Protons that serves as the principle binding power that creates the force that binds those fundamental particles to create atoms and molecules and which bonds when broken release the empowering energy to produce the effects we call light and heat. The Universe has no center of gravity because the Universe exists as a singularity of Divine particles wherein, some have become assembled into isolated assemblies.

duh i dont think there is a center to the universe its impossible in my world. FYI guys k?

I am glad to see an article like this in the popular media.

Decades ago the belief was that the Universe originated in a literal Big Bang that had a specific center. Now the view is that space itself is expanding, and that it is a centerless expansion. Space is like time: it progresses, but it progresses in three dimensions, and we call that an "expansion".

We could carry that argument further. Time might three dimensional and be expanding as well. That leads to a type of motion that physicists term "non-local" as seen from a spatial reference system. It is a "when" motion seen from a reference system that knows only "where". Hence, it is inherently non-directional. It can only be "towards" or "away".

The Universe does in fact have these two kinds of motion: the expansion, which moves things "away" (i.e., increasing spatial separation) and gravitation which moves things "towards".

If you want to read some really thought provoking implications of this, read my article at:

scripturalphysics.org/4v4a/ADVPROP.html#GeometrySpaceTimeMotion

Brian Fraser, Scottsdale, Arizona

"Light from the big bang, in the form of cosmic radiation, fills the sky in every direction."

The cosmic background radiation isn't from the big bang, it is from the frequency given out when dark matter warms up to 2.7 Kelvin. Measure the cosmic radiation in intergalactic space where the temperature is less than 2.7 Kelvin. If it is the same as we our getting on this pebble we call earth then I will succumb to acceptance of this preverbal misjudgment of how we measure light to get a big bang out of it....

Ron Bennett

For another perspective that is equally difficult to get your brain around, how about this? We are fast approaching the time when our telescopes will have the resolving power to see light from more than 14 billion years ago. Even today, astronomers talk of seeing the light from the earliest galaxies in our universe. What will we be able to see beyond that 14 billion year limit? Is it theoretically possible to see the Big Bang itself? And here's the kicker: in which direction should we be looking? It seems from all the learned discussions on this topic, we should be able to point our telescopes in any direction to see into the center of our universe and its beginnings.

i need to go lie down now.

To me space is a constant that can be represented by a zero meaning that it is nothing. Nothing has always existed because by definition it is nothing. It has no true center because it is infinite. It is without beginning or end. It does not expand. Those who say space expands leave me wondering what exactly is it expanding into? Matter on the other hand was created by something in the middle of the nothing. Because the nothingness is infinite, one can imagine that the physical point where it was created might be considered the center of creation and therefore the center of infinity but this is an illusion, similar to the concept of time which does not exist in the nothingness of space. Only after the creation of matter does time become a relevant concept. Prior to that the concept of time had no meaning. Matter seems to be moving away from us as it expands into the nothingness that preceded its creation. How did matter come to be in the middle of nothing? Why is it moving? I believe God has given us these questions for the expansion of our minds.

What came before the big bang? Who lit the big bang?

If something is moving, something moved it.

Regardless of how far back in the sequence you go, there must be a mover, until you get to the Prime Mover, the unmoved mover, that we call God - see Aristotle's Metaphysics.

What most people relate to is what they see and experience in front of them. They take this understanding with them when looking out into space.

But when you are looking out into space you are looking backwards into time so what you see is not today's reality but you are seeing what it looked like in the past.

The boundary that many are finding hard to grasp is not an absolute boundary in space as in volume because you are not looking at space, you are looking at time.

It is a boundary in time and time alone.

So if we are looking at time there can be no center of origin only a center in time which is right now or right where you are observing the universe at any given point in time.

If someone or something was living on another planet in another galaxy and we can see their galaxy 14 billion light years from us right now what we see is their galaxy as it was 14 billion years ago.

So if inflation is correct, right now, that galaxy is no longer at that particular point in space but technically it may be many billions of light years further away from the point where we see it today.

That other planet reasonably had to be able to see 14 billion light years in all directions as well and you reasonably could have a third planet located opposite our galaxy at 28 billion light years from us, but technically again this is in time. That could go on and on in every direction in the sky for millions and millions of planets.

It seems a bit mid-evil to think that what we see in space is all there is to see. As that would require for us to be at the center of everything when you consider the fact that you are looking at time.

We already made that mistake long ago.

The only way everything can be the "center" of the universe is if at the beginning when the universe was a dense "point" of energy it started with a sphere of expanding light propagating outward from the surface of the point, creating space as it went. Since nothing can travel faster than light the movement of any part of that central "point", which was left behind, in any direction would cause space to become "denser" in the direction of travel and "lighter" in the direction opposite to the direction of travel, this would be necessary for the speed of the "point" and the energy that propagates from it to remain constant relative to the speed of the sphere of light propagating outwards from it. In order for matter/energy to travel in one direction though, an equal amount would need to go in the opposite direction, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, hence space would be less "dense" between those 2 bodies therefore attracting them towards each other, in other words gravity, but they would also be slightly pulled towards the sphere of expanding light in order that c remains constant relative to those bodies. This would tie together special relativity, general relativity and quantum mechanics if it were to be based within the proper framework, a framework that is not as simple as it would appear.

Obama thinks he is the center of the universe.

"Where Is The Center of the Universe?" In the mind of my X-wife.

Ron Bennett

It is much easier to think of the "Raisin Bread" analogy. The universe is like a loaf of raisin bread that is unbaked. As the loaf bakes it spreads evenly from "the center" and each raisin moves away from each other in equal-ish distances and in all directions from the center. The raisins represent galaxies; the "baloon analogy" is less accurate because it only accounts for galaxies on the outer edge of the "baloon"/universe while the raisin bread analogy accounts for galaxies on the outer edge as well as in the "bread" or throughout space.

But I also agree that there should be some kind of definable center to the universe or where it all started. I understand space, time, and matter are not what they seem here on earth and everything thing started from the same "stuff" but we should be able to pinpoint where that start point was if they are traveling at equal speeds in equal directions. I guess first we would have to find a definable edge of the universe, which we have not found. We are technically still viewing things for the first time in space as they are so far away that the light they emitted when they were created is just reaching us for the first time.

for people getting confused, i think it means everything's getting further from everything equally everwhere

The balloon idea makes perfect sense. If you are looking for the center of matter then it would be every where. If you are looking for the origination point it would be a measurement because there would be no matter at the center.

@robot Please remove that ridiculous signature, religion sees nothing 'i.e.' has no place on popsci.com.

If the Universe is infinite, then there can be no center. It's a trick question.

If the Universe is infinite, then every observer is the center. Just as the observer on the earth can only see 11 miles to the horizon at sea level in every direction due to the spherical shape of the planet, so too the speed of light creates the same effect. Estimated age of solar system is 4.5 billion years and rough estimated age of universe is 14 billion.

Conversely, If the Universe is expanding then we can only see those objects traveling in our general direction and perpendicular to our direction but not opposite our direction of travel IF they are more than 4.5 billion light years away.

So I really AM the center of the universe... I'm calling my mom and setting the record strait!

Center of the universe is everywhere :)
odonder

Totally wrong. If each point is expanding, then its just a node that has an independent center, but isn't the center of the largest macro space.

Okay, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. If the universe is like a balloon and every single point in the universe is expanding at the same rate, with all points being true center, then the universe would not have a true center from what we see because its "inside" just like the balloon would be “empty” filled with space like the balloon filled with air? If so, then space itself is causing the expansion and the universe we see would just be the surface of the expansion, and the space "inside" would be pushing it outward like the air in a balloon being inflated?

If most of the universe was made up of dark energy then the core of the universe could contain large amounts of dark energy. So, our universe would be a dark energy containment field...I think. This could explain why gravity behaves the way it does...dark energy could be seeping into the shell (universe) and creating gravity allowing things to remain intact. The energy release from the dark energy within the core could be causing the rapid expansion. If any of this is true...then the universe itself could be described as a HUGE planet, but obviously far more complex, or maybe not....

The mystery of the world around us is unraveling before your eyes, the future is now.

Alright so if the universe is a giant balloon heres my question.....whos blowing in the ballon

“An individual respective very location is the present and the rest all locations are of the deep of the past”. In this way; in the universe, there has been no incidence of present and future at all at any site of space, all are submerged into their respective depths of the past. Such as; our home planet is present before us at this moment, likewise just at this time it is again submerged into the depth or the past from another place of space. That is to say; location of oneself is the present and all other remaining places have dived inside the deeper parts of the past of all.

In or under the circumstances:

In the universe, everything at all is the result of central or your location is central or our place is center or my brain is centre or from our location, position of our home planet is center point in the universe.

When using this analogy I like to think of it as a 4-dimensional balloon. The "center" of the universe would be at the middle of the balloon in 4 dimensional space. This would produce an effect similar to that of an ant walking inside a paper tube, the ant would think it was moving on a flat plane when really it was moving in 3 dimensions. Similarly, you could move in a straight 3-dimensional line forever and it would seem to have no end. You would really be following the 4-dimensional curvature of the universe balloon. Eventually though, you could conceivably return to your original starting point. This may be why when you look in all directions around earth there appears to be similar star density, you could be seeing some of the same stars that are on other sides! It's tough to grasp I know, but then again, the universe is a strange place.

If the universe is expanding uniformly and there is no center, how is it that galaxies collide? The balloon analogy doesn't work because the surface of a balloon expands from the center of it's 3 dimensional body. If the 2 dimensional argument functioned at all there would be some dots mystically colliding as the balloon surface expanded.

So, if there was no universe and then all of a sudden there was, everywhere is the center because there are 30 something definitions of the word center? Or the universe is a ballon? Or the answer is 42? Or because it's what I understand of the big bang, that everything was at one point one point, haha. So everything came from one point there for everything is the center because the matter from there is here and everywhere? If you think my comments are pointless, just think you were part of my point at some point and I part of yours, if I understand correctly.

We are all in the exact centre of the universe. Be happy in the knowledge that the universe really does revolve around you.

There is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this idea of an inflationary universe without a centre.

The universe may have started out expanding into nothing, and creating it's own space but I don't understand why that still applies.

It is now a 3 dimensional object. If everything is expanding, then things in the middle have to be expanding slower and things at the end faster, otherwise, things in the middle would just bump into each other as they were squeezed from the stuff expanding on the outside.

The space in the middle is fully formed 3-D space. (Light, or nutrino's or whatever is travelling out making new space faster than the matter in it can travel, so the matter is sitting in fully formed 3-D space.) It has to act like a 3-D object, even if the outer edges are still making new space, what is inside has to have a middle and edges.

So, if you're on one side looking across, things should be going away from you faster because you're looking across the middle and you're adding your expansion speed to the expansion speed on the other side.

Oherwise, if the middle stuff is expanding, doesn't it bump up against the stuff to either side of it?
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Another way to look at it, is say you have something that is expanding. There is something to the left and rigt of it that is also expanding. The stuff on the left and right side must be expanding outward, otherwise it would bump into the middle expanding area.
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If you're a loaf expanding, there is a middle. Where the relative velocity to everything else is zero.
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Why don't we ever measure our relative velocity and figure out where we are in the universe?

E.g. Shine a lazer in 3 directions and get it's relative spead vs. it's absolute speed. Then we have a frame of reference to look at how the rest of the observed universe is moving.

There is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about.

What makes you so sure that the universe is a 3 dimensional object?

I have no idea what shape the universe is, but if space has been formed in our universe, and it's 3-D, then don't the rules of a 3-D universe have to apply right up to the edges of that universe.

What happens at the edges (which we will never be able to see, if they are being propegated at the speed of light), is anyone's guess.

However, within the universe, shouldn't we be able to judge respective speeds and distances, in an absolute framework and figure out where the centre is that everything is moving away from? Also, if things are moving away from each other, then aren't some things moving slower, and the further out you, the faster objects/galaxies/clusters are going?

Shouldn't we be able to observe and get a sense of where we are on a map of the universe?
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To answer your question more bluntly, I don't know what shape the universe is, or if the word "shape" applies at the edges, but what I can grasp is that the observable universe is a 3-D object. That's what I understand, that's what I can work with and that's what I'm theorizing from.