Hubble Glimpses the Most Distant Object Ever Seen, A Galaxy 13 Billion Light Years Away

(the universe is believed to be anywhere from 4,000 to about 13.6 billion years old, depending on who you ask).

That's why I don't ask religious idiots for information about science.

Stuff like that blows my mind. We are seeing the light of 13 billion years ago. The universe is so big that it's pointless to consider space travel without some kind of exotic wormhole.

@Frosttty: and your proven knowledge in the sciences of Earth and theology makes you say that, right? How does referring in that way to the belief and moral conduct of 2 billion people makes you worth of even having the chance to write that comment? Please, go see, for the sake of your "confirmation" that those religious people might also have a point in their speculation about the origins of the Universe.

I think only god knows how old the universe is.... if it can be quantified. I think its much older than 4000 years, probably older than 13.6Billion years.. I mean, we lived with him as spirits before we came to earth, and who knows how long that was.

I'll go with a good 'ol Sagan qoute:

"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

In this case, old... really really old.

Well, are you certain that he (Sagan) wasn't the actual one who was delusional? I'm just saying, is this version of an old Universe confirmed by any empirical evidence, or is it just speculation based upon some cognitive limits?

God actually made us this way and not spirits before we came here.

@taysoren
Sorry friend but Frostty is right. If you consider yourself an abject thinker then you have to assume all religion is wrong. Sorry but it's true. Religion in no case whatsoever has presented any evidence or replicatable experiments to support their thesis. While science is required to present evidence or you get told to shut the heck up. Even if you might be right. I'm not saying that a truly omnipotent being couldn't create the universe and all it's history in an instant. I'm saying that when someone tells you something is just because some old ass book told them so then you have to call bullshit.

I meant @ bog lol

@bog, please do explain the logic of people who "think" the universe is 4000 years old. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

Yes. Bog. Yes. If light is running at a set speed. And we see that a galaxy is a certain distance away, then we can see that light had to travel some distance to get here. Then you get that the universe is at least 13 billion years old. Purely cognitive theory run to 16 billion I do believe.

So. No matter what, the universe is 13 billion years old, so that means all the creationists are wrong on the age.

@bog, "...that those religious people might also have a point in their speculation about the origins of the Universe."

They may have a religious point, but they cannot have a scientific point. You can't test whether God exists or influenced the physical universe. Creationism is an expression of fear, pure and simple.

I hope I won't mind guys at popsci. I mean I'm not doing any commercial (joking).
I can't explain as 1,2,3 as I am no scientist: but I can point you to a place that has solved this problem for me. I did not consider Genesis to be true until a few months back.
www.creation.com. This will (or at least try to) help you in grasping the fact that an omnipotent being is the most logical way to go and that evolutionism and all naturalist views of today might actually be misled.

I don't think many will be interested in unfalsifiable claims of higher powers and whatnot. We do not need a detailed scientific explanation, just ANY explanation, of how the universe can only be a few thousands years old. Please, just give us a single reason to even give that hypothesis a single fleeting thought.

Okay, the whole reionization period concept makes a hell of a lot more sense now. I've been curious about it, and the graphic helps.

Eleven people have already jumped on it, but I'd just like to say, props for the burn, there. Well-put. = )

How you (bog) see it:
Genesis is a story. Stories are written in books. Books read by others who believe these stories help reinforce your need for religion. Religion can be justified without any facts. Anyone who doesn't believe the same religion as you must be called out and told they're wrong. You are not satisfied until everyone believes you.

How I see it:
Genesis is a story. Stories are written in books. Books burn at about 451F. Burning gives off light. Light travels at approximately 186,282 miles per second. I could burn lots of bibles to prove my point... but don't need to because it's established science. I'm satisfied.

Books burn at 450 Celsius.

@A_Rock, I don't know what your beef with religion is, but be careful when you make absolute and sweeping statements, especially when your knowledge is limited. A lot of religious people are excellent scientists.

Let's suppose that by "thesis" you mean the idea that the universe is about 4000 years old. What "religion" makes that statement? And what "book" does? I've read the Bible several times and I haven't run across the age of the universe in there. I don't know of any organized religions making that claim either, though it's probably true that religious people of different faiths have a personal belief to that effect. So maybe "all" religions aren't wrong.

I'm pretty sure a survey of religious Americans would show the vast majority don't believe in a 4000-year-old universe. And I'm equally sure that cosmologists don't have all the answers about how the universe formed. Debate is ongoing about the origin and age of the universe. Remember back in 1998 when it was discovered that the expansion of the universe is accelerating? It messed up some tenets of the Big Bang Theory that no one has resolved yet. There are several interesting theories to explain it--many of them completely untestable. If it's not testable and repeatable, it's not science, right? But that doesn't weaken our faith in science because eventually scientists have to devise a theory that is testable...otherwise no one will believe it. Fascinating when you think about it, eh?

I, for one, think the universe is a lot more than 4000 years old. Besides the scientific value of Hubble's picture, how awe-inspiring is it to realize the enormous scale of the universe? It's a really big place.

lol @ Siromar

@alias007, I'm glad I made you laugh, but I'd like to know how. It'd probably help my comedy career.

everybody misses the point here and it's getting very frustrating.
the first reaction anybody has when subject to a new or\different concept is aggression, religious or not people first reaction is to defend their point even when "proved" wrong.
i personally don't believe, but i don't see any problem if people rather think an supreme being did what is not proven by science, this is how some scientist can believe.

but people please don't mix belief and religion.

religion tries to enlighten people to a better living in harmony, it doesn't explain any scientific mystery.

belief is a natural human reaction that help us to not put a bullet in our heads every morning, when we realized how hopeless our situation is.

now not everybody needs those tools to survive or feel good.
but i can see science being a line of belief as much as religion.
i just like science better.

Whoever said Carl Sagan was delusional, apparently needs to jump off a cliff.

@siromar,

I didn't see duffong's comment above yours so when I read your comment and thought you were implying to burn bibles - which i see now is what duffong really said - I laughed. Basically I was giving you the credit duffong should've got.

quote from laurenra7

"A_Rock, I don't know what your beef with religion is, but be careful when you make absolute and sweeping statements"

You must be living under a rock . Religion is the most horrible sh*t on this planet .

and why must we be careful when we make sweeping statements about religion ? WTF are you gonna do ?

Christianity ? ,your told to love somebody you fear or burn in eternal hellfire ? Thats Sadomasochistic and thats evil . Letting somebody else be tortured and let die for the transgressions of every person that lives afterward as long as they believe , thats called scapegoating and its immoral.
To teach that our own bodies are sinful and that we are born wicked and we must believe in order to be good is the most f*cked up theory of human existence ever and is arguably child abuse and is psychologically damaging for many people well into adulthood and even after shedding religious belief all together. To deny basic human rights to homosexuals and to deride unbelievers is bigotry. To go to 3rd world countries like Uganda and preach the evils of homosexuality or to preach that condom use in a country riddled with aids is evil and is reprehensible .

Islam ? Stoning Women to death for adultery or for leaving the house without a man . Forcing women to walk around in a cloth bag all day unseen . Cutting off the genitals of young girls to keep them from ever enjoying sex . A womans testimony in court is worth half that of a man . Death to anyone who would convert away from Islam . Death to anyone who would draw an image of the prophet mohommed . ( Theo Van Gogh ) Dutch film maker had his throat cut for making a movie critical of the muslim treatment of women . Comedy Central Pulled an episode of South Park when they recieved email death threats from muslims . Muslim Extremism is spreading .

Judaism ? Perform "oral suction" on infant boys during genital mutilation ceremonies , spreading disease such as incurable Herpes .

I could go on but my point must be clear , religion leads to all manner of the perversion of human existence , it teaches us to be full of shame because of our sexuality , hateful of those who are different , and it teaches us that it is virtue to believe without evidence . It leads to hurt , it leads to suffering , and it leads to death , and even worse than that , since science is the only thing that will save our species from catastrophe religion could very well lead to our extinction as a species .

So pardon me if my sweeping statements about religion have offended you but you offended me with you idiocy .

186.000 mps do the math!

when you consider it... the generation before mine where the first ever to make it to the moon,.. This generation right now has more publicly accessible information than ANY generation before it. We can talk to anyone in the world from almost anywhere in the world with the push of a button, this is how quickly we can get the information we want.

I think Religion in all of it's forms is the process that inspired movement into understanding where and what we have come from. I think religion of today is the left overs of thousands of years of not knowing. But now we know, or can know.

We are all that, the universe as we know it now, we are the universe manifest. We can mold, shape, create, move, etc.
We are the gods we've hinted about for thousands of years.
*bows to the readers*
Namaste!

ha ha ha ha!

@steve28,
I agree with part of what you said and disagree with the rest.

I don't think religion is cause of all the things you said!!
It IS THE HUMAN BEING that made it that way.
No matter what you do Humans are corrupt by nature...most people are evil in this world!! Almost anyone in the power in any part of the world is corrupt! That's the reason they seek power in the first place. If you are humble and kind you never run for office.. if you are kind human you will never make it to the top.

If you go back to 2000 years ago, or 1400 years ago when Jesus and Mohammad walked on earth you'll understand what religion is all about.
Before prophets there were much more evil happening in the world. Fathers sleeping with daughters, sons sleeping with mothers, brothers killing brother, manslaughter, theft, rape, and etc etc etc
If you compare before religion time and after religion time you understand how much good religion brought to the world...
US constitution is based on Christianity beliefs.. If there was no Christianity don't expect to see what you see right now... there may NOT have been a democracy in the US..we could have a King and we would all be slaves!

Story short, humans are cause of their own demise. Those bad things you mention about religion are just interpretation of some stupid clergy and are FORCED to people. As I said earlier people in power are all corrupted (about 95% of them)!! same thing with religious leaders as well. normal religious guys might be kind people by the head is usually corrupt. because that's how they got up to the top..with corruption!

@siromar I've always thought it was 451 Fahrenheit not Celcius. Oh well.

Well, that's because of the famous book. Paper can come from various sources with complex properties. Depending on the composition, it can range from 400-900 F. Typical book paper, and cotton paper, typically burn around 450-500 C, which is over 800 F.

I didn't think to look up the actual combustion temps of paper is its many varieties, though have since read about the reasons Bradbury used the wrong temperature scale. But I think that's because I was also trying to be ironic. In the book, one of the books avidly burned by the "Firemen" was the bible.

@kamydon

Who do you think created the ideals of religion? MAN. Who, as you say are "corrupt by nature...most people are evil in this world."
Countless people have died for religous purposes, and contrary to your belief, "fathers sleeping with daughters, sons sleeping with mothers, brothers killing brother, manslaughter, theft, rape etc" still occurs to this day, Bible or not, ironically by those who taut it the most. Do you not know of the atrocities happening all over the world, DAILY? And most of it has to do with religion in one way or another. Read a newspaper (although there are very few who pick up or continue to run stories about genocides happening today, etc)

Also, the Constitution is NOT based on Christian beliefs. Most, if not all, of the writers were DEISTS. Totally different belief system.

Brush up on your history, child.

Oh, PS..
When exactly is "before religion time" and "after religion time"? Guess I'm a little confused...

@steve28, your point is valid about the inhumane and repugnant practices of certain groups claiming affiliation to certain religions, especially extremists, however....

Kamydon said it well and I'll amplify it. Those are the practices and beliefs of PEOPLE; not necessarily the dogma of the religion they claim. People have an amazing capacity for self-deception, for justifying inhumane and senseless behavior. Unfortunately, like A_Rock, you simplistically lay the blame on "religion" in general (whatever that means), not on the actions and personal philosophy of specific people. You could just as easily blame atheism for the world's problems if you isolate yourself to the behavior of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the Khmer Rouge, Kim Jong-il, and Fidel Castro.

You also lump all religions together as though they were all the same. Why?

I'm not sure what your point is other than demonstrating an obvious hatred of some phantom thing you call "religion."

Are you trying to say that "science" is right and "religion" is wrong? Is that it? If so, that's a strange argument. Most of the time science has nothing to say about religion and religion has nothing to say about science. One is concerned with understanding the physical world, the other with morality and human interaction. They both have made significant positive contributions to human society and knowledge.

@suppjamieee, see my post above. Most of the atrocities around the world have nothing to do with religion.

FYI, the U.S. Constitution had many influences: among them English Common Law, the philosophies of John Locke and Montesquieu, and the experience of the authors of the Constitution with British government as well as their personal beliefs. The majority of the authors of the Constitution were members of different sects of organized Christian religions. To what degree their religious affiliation was important to them is debatable but they certainly were not Deists. It would be highly unlikely that their Christian morality did NOT inform their philosophy of government since it permeated every aspect of their lives and their thinking.

To say that the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were INFLUENCED by Christian principles is probably more accurate. Don't forget that it was a group of men who were mostly Christian who decided to not have a state religion and protect the freedom to practice any religion. Respect for Christians and Jews is also a tenet of Islam, though you would hardly know it from the rancor generated by a very visible minority of them. Again, not a fault of religion; just the people practicing it, who are--just like agnostics and atheists--very human.

"It IS THE HUMAN BEING that made it that way.
No matter what you do Humans are corrupt by nature...most people are evil in this world!!"

I cannot buy into this type of thinking , why do you hate human beings so much ? Your self loathing is palpable .

Humans are not naturally evil, I think we are naturally good and that religion makes good people do evil things. Of course there are a great many things that drive men to do evil things but simply not believing without evidence in mystical sky fairies does not by itself lead to evil .

"You could just as easily blame atheism for the world's problems if you isolate yourself to the behavior of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the Khmer Rouge, Kim Jong-il, and Fidel Castro."

These men werent even all Atheists . And even if they were it certainly was not that fact that lead to the evil and suffering. It was the fact that they were Totalitarian Regimes in which, if you read George Orwell's 1984 you would know that the Dictator in a Totalitarian Regime is God , so they actually take the Model of Religion and use it to obtain god-like power here on Earth . I dont believe in that either .

"Those are the practices and beliefs of PEOPLE; not necessarily the dogma of the religion they claim?

It is delusional if you honestly think this . Ask any of the perpetrators of these horrendous acts where they drew their inspiration and you will hear scripture repeated back to you.

If you actually read scripture and understood it , as most Atheists and Fundamentals do , then you will see that theres is plenty of stuff in there to get your Jihad on or to get your crusade on or to get your gay/non-believing/apostate hanging on .

Also if your religion is constantly being used to justify "repugnant practices" then why not take a closer look at your religion and make a conscious moral choice to no longer afiliate yourself with the religion that these repugnant people claim to be a part of.

And to re-iterate Atheism is not a religion it is a word that only has any meaning at all because religion exists in the first place , you already know what it means to be a Atheist because you ARE an Atheist already ( presumably you dont believe in Thor or Zeus or any of the other thousands of gods that have existed in human history). Atheists are just people who dont believe Gods or the supernatural thats it period , there is no dogma .

First I enter this place to see a photo of the object most distant ever. The picture that was take with a scientific device. I am a scientific man that beliefs in God.
While I was looking at the picture I though how great is God that did all this. And the Photo make me belief it should be a Good. Then I went to the comments. Wow! No one was talking about that incredible picture. Everybody was fighting if science o religion, if atheism or religion, if God exist or not. After a while the insults started and look like everybody is mad. The picture has nothing to do with if science is good, If God exits or even if you must be atheist or not. The fight, the insult and the illogical arguments are human nature. that is what have us advancing to little. please be nice. be focus in the topic. and please don't insult people giving and opinion. An trust me is nice to have pictures like this in the internet. Good bless you

@Steve28, once more, here's the point: PEOPLE use whatever justification is handy for their terrible acts. Not religions, not science. You continue to lay the blame incorrectly on religion instead of the perpetrators themselves.

Religion has nothing to do with someone taking an obscure and ancient religious passage out of context and using it to justify evil. Anyone can choose things out of context from any source. No realm of human endeavor is immune to it. Remember the so-called scientific justification of the Nazi party for promoting the Aryan race and ethnic cleansing? How about using the Theory of Evolution to rationalize the superiority of one race over another and justify racism? Science isn't to blame. Someone uses a corruption of science to justify evil. The same thing happens in a religious context.

As for atheism, in a very narrow sense it is neutral but atheism in the broader, day-to-day sense is anti-religious and just as dogmatic as any religion. In fact you have demonstrated it rather nicely in your comments. I haven't taken any issue with science. I love it. It's fascinating. Human knowledge continues to expand due to science. On the other hand, you, an atheist (I presume), take issue with religion and demonstrate a remarkable intolerance of it even though religion has also been a tremendous boon to mankind; civilizing people and teaching morality, tolerance, charity and peace.

Im here to read about science. My question is one of a paradox. If we are looking back in time, why can we not look to where our early galaxy would have been billions of years ago? Or millons or thousands of years ago? Logic tells us that we cannot see yesterday, but we can see trillions of yesterdays ago. Im confused about this. Maybe someone can break it down for me.

"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before.".. Paul Dirac

@Steve28: oh, wait, laurenra7 hit it right on the head there

@those saying religion is unscientific and cannot be proven: That is, in a way, true. For things to be scientific there must be hypothesizing OBSERVING and experimenting. This means Religion and Evolution are not science, but philosophy. But there is evidence against evolution and for Christianity.

Here is the evidence FOR Christianity. In Egypt's caverns and caves, there are old tools and messages saying things like "Lord, help me" in Hebrew. Also, if I remember correctly, there were writings of the 10 plagues in Egyptian perspective.

Now here's evidence against Evolution. Ever since the dawn of time, the sun has been shrinking. For a 6000-10000 year old world, that would not be a problem. For a 20 billion year old world, the sun would've engulfed the earth after evolutionists claim life to have appeared.
One time a large volcano erupted, 20 years later Evolutionists claimed it to be about 20 million years old.
Now, as one person said to me, "What if the matter was 20,000,000 years old?" Than explain this, How is there layers of matter differing in age by billions of years?!?
There are normal trees, like oaks, pines, and maples that shoot through millions of years worth of rock. These are not GIANT trees, nut normal trees that are a few feet in diameter. trees would die and fall down by the time all those layers had formed. these trees are rockified or whatever the word for that is. But a tree cant do that when it's just standing up. So, that means that that happened very quickly, like a flood did it. Say we had one billion monkeys and gave each monkey a typewriter. How long would it take for a monkey to write, say, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Mathematicians have calculated that it would take about 120,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, and there's still no guarantee that one of the monkeys would actually type the verse.

I have more information on this subject but, for sake of time, I am going to stop now. I hope this cleared things up for you.

No one can prove that God (or a supreme entity) does not exist in this Universe or Mega Universe. Faith in God is not religion.

Martin Ayala - http://www.juegos.gs

Intelligent Design.

@imabeast

We can't see ourselves because we are moving slower than the speed of light. If we were 13 billion light years away, then we could see the spec of the milky way as and where it was in the past because it would have taken the light that long to cover the vast, vast, vast (breathe), vast distance. Hope that helps.