Biologists Announce Discovery of an Entirely New Branch of Life

So many diiferent species on this planet and we are finding new ones every day and people believe it all started with ooze? What a joke.

So many diiferent species on this planet and we are finding new ones every day and people believe it all started with one guy? What a joke.

So many diiferent idiots on this planet and we are finding new ones every day and people believe it all started with Darwin? No joke.

What are religious people doing on this site? Shouldn't they be reading their religious books and not obeying them only to confess later on to some stranger so that they can do it again the next day?

That picture looks like something from Alice in Wonderland.

@Rod Avery
Stop the religious trolling!

The way I read this, they are not sure yet whether this is a fungi or not. I also take it that they've seen these organisms for a long time but assumed they belonged in the fungi kingdom. This is really more about academic re-classification. I'm sure it is exciting for biologists ...

Doesn't this kinda prove the religious lunatics wrong? Evolution created this vast amount. What do they think happened after the dinosaurs went extinct? That all the species alive today survived? WTH? Right, cause that makes sense.

So stick to your faith (belief without knowledge or proof -- ignorance is bliss right?) because that's what you do, and I'll stick to scientific reasoning, which actually requires intelligence in the most developed part of the human brain (the pre-frontal cortex).

ON the note of the article...this is pretty amazing. It's so mind-boggling that we could have missed such a huge discovery that lives in so many places. So is this a new kingdom?

Critically think and question everything.

I know, evolutionists are hilarious. Clearly all the billions of life forms were created by a magic sky-lord so that he force his silly opinions on us.

Clearly everything came about by that great scientific explanation of the gaps 'abiogenesis'.......wait......when did that get proved? Or for that matter even had a reasonable model given to explain how that works?

Wait! I've heard of this kind of thing before....the whole not 'science' but we believe it anyway thing.....oh yeah.....I think it was called 'faith'. But wait....that would mean people who believe in abiogenesis are 'religious'.......that can't be......can it?

Seriously though, the mockery of religion on here is amusing....mostly because it's religious people touting their dogma who are bashing religion. ;P

Did anyone ever think that some higher force "GOD" is in control of the evolution and creation of life that we can see here?? Why is that so hard to believe? I think it's very possible.

@cruzinmy64 I suppose anything is possible. It's irrelevant from a scientific perspective though. What we know is that evolution happened, and no amount of big-boat-with-many-animals stories can cast doubt on that simple fact. Whether evolution just happens or happens for a reason remain a subject for philosophers, until we have sufficient evidence in either direction.

I myself have often wondered about that. Why does evolution move toward greater complexity? Is intelligence a normal outcome of evolution? How common is life across the universe? Are we alone? If so, has the universe achieved consciousness through our emergence? I have so many more questions, but I know of no method that can provide answers. All I can do is wait and see what humanity can learn before this individual's time runs out.

@Siromar Well said.

@anyone else
I was questioning my religion when I was 12 or something. I'm pretty sure if there is something out there ... we haven't figured it out yet ... no matter how many old books claim they know the answer and how many wars have been battled to say so. These books were written by humans thousands of years ago. I'm fairly certain they all ate a few of these fungi while writing them. To claim one religion is correct over another is pure ignorance. People grew up believing a certain way because of the circumstances around them. It's like rooting for the local sports team.

Explain abiogenesis.....seriously. Explain it, give me a reason oh you 'skeptics' to believe that naturalism is even possible. Without abiogenesis, the little bit of the model of evolution that does work works just as well to explain how all of the life we see extends from a forest of trees rather than one big tree.

What you have is only a religion without a god. Think about it for a while 'skeptics'. Question the comfortable little cubby hole of 'science' you have found yourselves growing up in for once.

Those who want to dismiss 'books' that tell us of how we got here......guess what? The arguments you use against them undermine your own beliefs. What are you yourselves doing other than 'rooting for [your own] local sports team?'

You believe evolution can explain everything only because you aren't skeptical enough about it to see if other worldviews are at least as consistent and as able to explain things.

@Bagpipes100 So can we just condense your incoherent rant to "we do not know exactly how life arose from non-living chemicals, so it must be some god"? It's difficult to respond to Joyce-like stream of consciousness.

Give it up bagpipes.

Go to church and pray for our forgiveness.

hmm, stupid, stupid, stupid. You all are right, all everything is, is a belief about your world. Religion is a belief based on faith, science is a belief based on current observation. Beleif are not set in stone and change all the time. Tommarrow, we might find out the world is indeed flat, despite what years have science have taught us. I can certainly explain (very lengthy) how certain geometry's of space time would allow a flat earth to appear as if it was a sphere. (I dont actually believe that Im just saying that its possible)

What I am trying to say, is despite the orgin about your beliefs, who are you to tell someone that there beliefs are wrong. Personal reality is based on your perception of the world. If someone truely perceives a god, then who are you to tell them they are wrong? If someone is unable to perceive a god who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Its this endless bickering that is the root of all conflict. Until this world can accept that other people perceive the world differently then you do. And Accepts that, that is ok. We will never evolve as a species.

I am sooo tired of this endless fight, everyone of you who cant accept another view point are the problem. Stop throwing your own beleifs down other peoples throat! Im talking to all of you, Religious and Atheist alike. You are all the same!

One day we are going to wake up and find out we are all just living in the matrix anyways :p haha jk

its a basic law things go from order to chaos, I am a Christian I believe got made man, the world and Life and plants But i also believe in natural selection its observable and completely true, the difference is the starting point, its not reasonable nor logical to believe that there was nothing....then it exploded. that isn't logical and we all know matter is not created or destroyed yatyata, to deny religion any ground is ignorant to question and check it is human, don't throw off something that millions have died for if people are willing to live and die for something it must be important, also life does not come from non living things we have observed this, man can not create life only build off of or modify existing life, its a spark of something, something that man can not make that takes atoms, molecules and cells and makes them all work together in the massive and comprehensively complex system we call life and the world.

God, not got***

look at the human eye and its complexity and tell me that was created by ooze.

dear God bring on the aliens and shut everyone up.

@michael taylor
i have no problems with religious people exept one. all of my friends are religious, every sunday i have to make excuses of why i dont go to church because if they knew i was atheist they would treat me as if i was the devil himself. i know because i have seen what they say about atheism. i to believe that everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want. but my problem is they use religion to get away with really bad things. if one beats his child because he is drunk then he would just go to f**king church and say forgive me god i just beat up my 10 year old son and told him to tell his teacher he fell. great! now im not going to hell! now ill just do it again next time i get drunk. if the guy didnt go to church he would actually think about what he did. he would see the conciquences for him and his kid. he would have be very guilty and very sorry for what he did if he actually thought for the time it takes to go and ask god to forgive him. i do believe the people who wrote the bible were not only good storytellers, but very smart and ment good to the world. i think they thought that if enough people really believed they would pay dearly for there actions, like burning in hell, the world would be a better place. if they thought that they couldnt even escape there actions after death, the would think twice before doing somthing bad. back then there were no police, only god that would punish them if they did bad things. but... now we dont need all that,we have police and government and alot of stuff they didnt have. the bible used to be a good thing, now its just an excuse to do bad.

sorry even aliens won't stop us, and being a firm believer myself I am quite ashamed to say that yes in fact a lot of the people who associate with the Christian faith do not have it right. i'm not exactly out kicking puppies every night but i can say with dignity that my beliefs have kept me out of shit that has killed a few of my friends.

that being said, I know what I have seen, i know what i have heard, and i know what is right. I believe this and have been believing this for my entire life, and I apologize for my stubbornness but no amount of biased scientific progress will make me say otherwise.

let me explain that last thought for a minute, everyone is biased, I am biased, you are biased, the news is biased, jimmy down the street is biased. I refuse to believe that scientists are unbiased especially in this matter and I refuse to believe that God himself is unbiased.

now, abiogenesis is true! would you believe that? even the bible says that. whether you believe that we are a luck based race or God himself took his time and made us the way we did we all came from the earth. genesis says that God made man out of clay, scientists say it was a soup trapped in a rock. either way we are going to find the same correlations.

finally, no matter if you believe in God or evolution it takes faith to stand by it. seeing as they haven't answered "how" yet when i keep asking i'm sticking with "god did it." because that way how doesn't matter i can pick myself up, dust my pants off, and go build something out of L.E.D's and wall warts.

I think everyone here is right and wrong to some extent. You’re right in expressing your own opinion as to generate a more profound, [hopefully] intellectual conversation and gain perspective on the matter at hand. You’re also wrong in bashing on the beliefs and viewpoints of others, detracting from their pursuit of happiness. This being said…

IN MY OPINION – Religion sucks. Any religion is a ‘conglomerate ‘ of different traditions: dos and don’ts. I have yet to see religion bring love and peace between any two beings on this earth’s vast population; on the contrary, it often brings war and segregation. That being said, I am a firm ‘believer,’ if you will (I refer to it as being faithful, rather than religious). I think it’s important to listen to and understand those around us as to gain a better idea of what existence really is, and spread love out of duty rather than spread hate out of selfishness.

Now, I’m also a firm believer in science; but what is science? Science is simply observing the world around us to gain a better understanding of why things are the way they are. I follow popsci religiously (no pun intended..), fascinated by every day’s new discoveries and understandings, but I have yet to see science contradict the Bible, or vice versa. Actually, I find many scientific findings and explanations rather support the Bible in its entirety-but that’s just me. Most everyone’s two cents is based off of one side, without ever taking the time to hear the other. It’s like rooting for the local sports team without knowing your best friend is the opponent.

The way I personally put it into perspective—the bible is a book consisting of many, many historical events that have actually taken place right here, upon the surface of this earth and the very ground we walk on every day. Whether or not one wants to believe a God is governing them, that’s up to them. Until then, who’s to say a Christian should treat an atheist any differently, or that a Muslim can’t live a life of undisturbed tranquility here in America? Until that day, I’ll enjoy me some brand new fungi.

Clopay

I was going to stay out of the TROLLOING idiotic argument going on but.... "Did anyone ever think that some higher force "GOD" is in control of the evolution and creation of life that we can see here?? Why is that so hard to believe? I think it's very possible."
controlling evolution????? it would not be EVOLUTION if it was "controlled." It would then be called... creationism!

I honestly with all my heart, soul, mind, can not believe people still believe in evolution. its like arguing gravity or light, or chemistry. I don't see why it offends some people so much. because people didn't beileve in evolution 2000 years ago (mind you they didn't even have toilets) then you HAVE to believe the same thing because someone wrote in a book. If you are so closed minded how did you even learn how to turn on a computer or spell for that matter. I dont see how the same amazing human brain that can figure out science AND evolution can also be the same human mind that refuses to believe something even when proof is put in front of them. I mean you believe in creationism cause it was written down in a book. guess what?!?!? evolution is written down in a WHOLE lot more books. whats your argument now? and dont say the auther of the books because I can tell you the authors of the first book didn't even know the earth was round. what if they wrote that it was flat. would you still believe that too. I mean I have never personally sailed around the world... have you? but i have something called proof that shows me so. JUST like evolution.
there. my two cents.

I can not WAIT for the day for an alien to land on the lawn of the white house and shake hands with the president. but who am I kidding. would that really change the minds of ANYONE??????? people who believe in the possible would sigh relief. people who dont would keep on believing in their own tiny reality that they have already made for themselves and continue to live in it.

I guess I should add how COOL I think this is!!! and amazing. all this time and we find a new branch of life. AND did you know humans have far more DNA in common with Fungis than any other branch. It is one of the reasons fungal infections are nearly impossible to cure with out killing the patient. They are VERY similar to humans in many ways (much more so than Bactria or virus), and killing one often means killing the other.

@goldenflash "look at the human eye and its complexity and tell me that was created by ooze." that made me laugh!!!
the eye ball is already 99.5% ooze!!!

Not to mention EVOLUTION only had about 1 billion years to perfect the human eye. it started as just a few cells that could tell the difference between light and the absence of light. Its really not hard to understand how the eye EVOLVED from there.

REALLY? we can GROW kidneys in a vat of goo from nothing!!! that does not impress you. if we can recreate that, and humans have only been here for 1 million years, dont you think evolution can do that in 1 billion years.
not to mention we have started making HUMAN organs out of electronics. isnt that making organs out of DUST? silicon and other elements.

i cant believe humans still doubt ANYTHING?

"he bible is a book consisting of many, many historical events that have actually taken place right here, upon the surface of this earth and the very ground we walk on every day"
yes you are correct. Creationism is not one of them!!!

@goldenflash "look at the human eye and its complexity and tell me that was created by ooze." that made me laugh!!!
the eye ball is already 99.5% ooze!!!

Not to mention EVOLUTION only had about 1 billion years to perfect the human eye. it started as just a few cells that could tell the difference between light and the absence of light. Its really not hard to understand how the eye EVOLVED from there.

REALLY? we can GROW kidneys in a vat of goo from nothing!!! that does not impress you. if we can recreate that, and humans have only been here for 1 million years, dont you think evolution can do that in 1 billion years. my bad! 3.5 BILLION years to be exact.
not to mention we have started making HUMAN organs out of electronics. isnt that making organs out of DUST? silicon and other elements.

i cant believe humans still doubt ANYTHING?

"he bible is a book consisting of many, many historical events that have actually taken place right here, upon the surface of this earth and the very ground we walk on every day"
yes you are correct. Creationism is not one of them!!!

to the "faithful" and "scientists" alike
I am putting both in quotations to show that i do not favor one or the other. i too am adding my own philosopy perhaps. half a cent. you guys can burn me or whatever, but im only in high school. I'm "ignorant".
I personally do not believe in a religion. Religion, i believe is a system of beliefs in which people try to explain the world around them, tell historic events (sometimes, maybe in some cases exaggerated or missinterpreted, not exclusively Christianity), assure them what to expect in the afterlife, and a set of moral rules generally agreed upon by the local peoples. I feel that religion might not be completely true. There are so many, and some contradict each other, so why can one be more right than another? Again, religion both pulls people together and forces them apart. I have morals and I believe that sometimes people need religion to back their morals. Not everyone needs a religion. People who believe in religions are not bad people themselves. Some good friends of mine are very religious (in their respective faiths) and i have absolutely no problem with them. I don't care that they do not believe in evolution. I can try, but if they don't want to change, I'm fine with that. I just want to say you guys not to bomb each other. You "scientists" just want to say what you think is the truth and vice versa. If this was a different article, you wouldn't be the bitter enemies you are. Play nice. SCi not = bad, religion not = bad, in most cases (this applies to both!!!)
I am a scientist kind of person. I like logic. I want to be able to prove anything that i can. In math, I want to know not only what the quadratic formula is, but how it is derived, and how that works. I believe evolution can explain much of the life forms we can observe today. There are indeed theories on how life came from mud soup, and there is evidence of evolution right before our eyes. inaka_rob is right, they eye COULD have evolved from simple eyespots. Besides, we are arguing the same arguments they settled years ago. take the Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District case. One side argued some parts of bacteria (such as flagellum) couldn't be reduced to simpler parts and perform the same function, like a simple spring mousetrap. However, the other side argued that a flagellum could have evolved from a simpler structure intended to inject toxins into other cells to infect them, like how a few parts from a mousetrap can be used to make a simple (though not very stylish) tie clip. It doesnt perform the same funcition, but it is a simpler form. Evolutions also explaints why we need flu shots every year. We can only be immune to one strain at a time. Over time, the old cold virus changes ever so slightly, but enough so that we are no longer immune, and need to spend another couple of bucks for another shot.
Now let's move on. this thread is wayyy to long and arguing it out wont solve anything at all. lets say, "wooooaaaa thats some cool fungus, lets see wat else it can do" or something. stop trolling the page, all of you. i recommend those of you with sense (which i see some of you have, both 'faithful' and 'scientists' alike to move on and lets all be happy tree friends.
by the way I do think it entertaining how you go back and forth like this. but i am motivated to state my points. If i am merely feeding the trolls, I welcome it. humor me.

by the way it does look like from alice in wonderland. now we just need to find a Caterpillar that does pot

OK. Everyone listen: there is no conflict between creationists and evolutionists.
Evolution is the name we give creation.
Creationists want to believe "God" (whatever that may be) snapped "his" "fingers" and presto! everything was made in an instant (how boring!).
Evolutionists (or Darwinists) want to believe that everything happened randomly over a long period of time (actually, still is happening). How unimaginative!
God did snap his fingers (so to speak) and we (humans)) have just slowed the process down and looked at it as it unfolds, and given it a name: evolution.
How presumptuous and close-minded of creationists to tell God that he is not allowed to create the universe through a slow (in our eyes) and seemingly (again, in our eyes) random process. It's not miraculous enough!
And how presumptuous and close-minded of evolutionists to insist that the unfolding of creation (that led to their inexplainable existence and consciousness) must be random, and not guided by something more than they can understand or comprehend (since we all understand so well who we are, why we exist, how our bodies work, etc., etc.). It's not scientific enough!
What if, in God's time, that is, infinity, billions of years are nothing more than the snap of a finger. Then, bingo! we're all right! We're just mostly all too ignorant to realize it. And ain't that the truth!
And creation, aka evolution, is not over, but WE ARE IN THE THICK OF IT.
We/the world is still evolving. New species are being created. Our race is evolving (being created), even as we speak. Creation is not in the past.
It is now.

thank you clopay, I thought I was alone in these comments,
and thank you Jonniboif_16 for a kind comment.

As for the rest of you, it saddens me that you haven't experienced what I have, and (for many of you) even in these letters you convey hate toward one another.

And the men and women stood about, with only the goal of self triumph, as they argued past the beauty that was before them.

If you don't believe in evolution, what are you doing on here in the first place? And secondly and more importantly, does it taste good?

Personally, I see both science and religion as simply explanations for the world that we perceive. Taking this into account, I see it as a statistical impossibility that our current set of beliefs, whatever those may be, is 100% correct. the only difference I see between science and religion is that science uses data to modify the current beliefs constantly, hoping eventually to work all the "kinks" out, while religion continuously creates entirely new sets of beliefs in an attempt to eventually hit on the correct explanation. the way I see it, unless the assumption at the center of science (that the universe is an orderly place with a strict set of unbreakable laws) is completely wrong, then science will eventually get it right. Religion will also eventually hit on the right explanation, given enough time, but, given that adapting systems tend to achieve long term goals more quickly, I believe that science will get there first.

(note: religion is used in this context to represent the idea of religion, not any specific set of beliefs)

Since this comment board has ventured into the topic and I have questions along these lines I will go ahead and post them.

Don't kill me.

I am a believer, I am also a geology student. I should probably be taking multiple personality meds, right?!?!

I have no problem blending the two in my life. I believe life was created and the world for that matter by God, I doubt that it happened in 144 hours though. Generally Genesis gives with the universe formation theories while leaving the details that would have instilled cardiac arrest to even the most educated a couple thousand years ago. Imagine planetary accretion and all that jazz in the pre-100s, let alone the possibility extra terrestrial life or DVDs.

Here are my questions,

Can someone link me to a site that explains how new genetic material forms in nature? I have heard all my life that animals evolve, but how do they.

Has life ever been created in a lab?

Finally to those that discount the thought of evolution do consider the nature of creation and the requirement for it to be orderly and follow a scientific rule system. Also in some ways evolution is true, people are typically taller. I am much better looking than my dad and grandpa. To originate in ooze is very humbling, and I could see it being a very righteous statement for humans that think they know it all.

Please include Karst in your reply so it is easier to search for. I imagine this post we created will evolve quite a bit before I get back here. :)

all this religious trolling and you're missing the big picture: if they acquire a cell wall parasitically, what's to stop them from someday acquiring a human body parasitically, and then ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE!!!!

here's the problem as I see it.

even though they both started out to do the same thing science and religion have no common ground at all.

Religion is purely based on absolute belief that can’t be proven wrong by fact or reason. Science is based on observed repeatable events and new facts will change everything at the drop of a hat.

These two view points are irreconcilable no matter what you try to do.

This is why people have died over saying things like the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth in the past. but Just saying “it’s too complex” isn’t proof of anything more your own ignorance to a scientist. Just because you can’t understand how something could happen that way doesn’t mean it couldn’t have happened that way and that’s where “observed repeatable events” come in.

To all you creationists who think that we can't know how life began. First of all, evolution does not = abiogenesis.

Secondly, please see this video as a likely explanation how life not only may have, but likely did evolve from inorganic molecules based on physics, chemistry, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cdk007#p/a/0696457CAFD6D7C9/0/U6QYDdgP9eg

@ Karst

the answers you're looking for can be found on this web site.

there have been many articles over the years showing the building blocks of life (amino acids) and how the can form from non organics dating back before I was even born. I believe there was even one about them being form in a dying star.

and with in the last few year that have been articles about labs around the world racing to be the first to "creat life in a lab" from non organic compounds

jonniboif_16 im like you only the opposite,
Im religeous, but i like science, i just graduated from hs though, If i wasnt so horrid at math id probabaly major in a science field, im going to missionary school =) but anyway

my 2 cents, is that i believe in both evolution and creation... yes there is evolution, we know this because of all the different breeds of animals take dogs, there are alot of them you have pit bulls, collies, etc. now excuse me if my facts arnt all straight, i kinda blocked out the evolution classes in hs because i didnt agree with them(imagine that!) but as far as i can tell,(from evolutionist views) humans evolved from some sea animal,then crawled out of the water, grew legs, went back in the water, and we got primative monkeys, yadayaya we have us.. that doesnt make sense, why go backwards? they left the water then went back.

as for the comment about the guy who beats his 10 year old kid, thats not a christian... I dont care how much that person says that they are, its one thing to try and be a christian but mess up, but to go home and repeatedly do something like that. your not a chrisitan by the standard ive studied and been taught, A true chrisitan pushes themself to be more like Christ, you can call that "evolution" i dont really care,

anyway, yes there are different religions, but it all comes back to what people are willing to hear, if some guy came in your house telling you that idk, a wrecking ball was about to come through your house if you didnt ask him to tell the crew to go away, how would you take that? you'd say he was crazy and tell him to go away... what if there really was a crew outside though? thats what ive been taught and studied a Christian is supposed to be.. the guy telling you about the ball, he does not have the power to stop it, but he can give you the card to an insurance company who will pay for all the repair... if that makes any sense.

im not sure where i was going with this haha, i just wanted to put my two cents in, if you have questions regaurding religion (chrisianity), you can email me, ill answer them to the best of my ability, im still trying to "evolve" into a Christ like person.

as for the Article, i think it looks cool it does look like something out of alice

I re-read the first few pages of the Bible the other day, and I for one can't fathom how anyone could even get past the first few pages, so many contradictions, if you read genesis and pay attention to the pro-nouns used, it refers to God, and it appears other Gods as well. As "They" decided to make man in "Their" image. That's right from the book.

The problem I have with Darwinism, is that it works, stops working, then works again when looking at human lineage.

My take.

The planet's life started off when foreign matter was brought here in an asteroid or other cosmic projectile. Some time later, a group or consortium of "Aliens" saw Earth as a place where they could adjust the species slightly to create a new life for whatever reason. They decided amoung themselves that 1 certain species had enough in common with the homonid species and that 1 Alien Species would be chosen to be used.

We sprouted and grew, and all contact we've had from the 1 Alien that was compatable with our enviroment has been misconstrude because we, at the time, could not fathom what we were seeing. Add in the "Telephone Game" and "The Fish was This Big" factor to the interactions, and you get the stories we have now.

I for one don't think A) there is 1 all knowing, all seeing creature that created us. B) we have any clue the full extend of the true history of our own planet. C) we as a whole are smart enough to fully comprehend the space around us.

Think of it this way. What are humans to ants. We know ants have a social structure, they create homes and cities, they communicate, they are born, live, work and die. We to them are Gods, we live infinitly longer than they do, we have 100% control over their existance when we decide we want to. I think the idea of "God" is simply a being that we can't truely understand. We are not the biggest, smartest, anything "est" species in this vast and amazing universe.

I for one will not be ignorant and think we are the only thing smart enough to think in this universe. We still have far too much to learn. We are but a newborn baby in compairson to the age of this universe.

1 Cor. 2:14 (NASB) But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

1. As believers we should attack the beliefs of scientists in any means because that is no helping in accomplishing the will of our Lord. So anyone on here doing that isn't helping and should quit.

2. This is a free country, internet, and forum so the scientists and their followers shouldn't attack people of spiritual faith because they don't understand us. So if you're doing this, please stop because in our compassion for you, we will only continue to try and help you.

3. This forum was intended for the civil exchange of thoughts and ideas about the article. What about any of the past posts have been civil. And are you really still on topic?

4. Don't attack our faith or religion because most of you who do that hold so tightly to science and its infallibility that you have created a religion for yourselves centered around science as a god. You don't question what you hear unless you have evidence to suggest it.

5. Proof wise, the Word of God has been around for several hundred years and, under the scrutiny of thousands if not millions of scholars, has remained virtually unchanged. There may be different offshoots but the core is the same. Isn't that part of what gives many scientific tenets their authority? Longevity without change?

Come on people, we can't have world peace but lets at least have a peaceful exchange on this forum and give believers and scientists a way to interact in a way that advances everyone.

God bless you.

@3ddraft
In reply:

In #1 you call all religious to attack all scientific
in #2 you ask all scientific to stop attacking the religious
#3 and #4 are simply rewording of #2
#5, are you serious? Have you looked at the revision numbers on ANY bible? It's been re-written so many times it's not even funny. There are so many versions now that your comment is totally debunked.

The bottom line with the bible is that it was written by man, not by "God" so, back to your "Cor 2:14(NASB)" that alone proves itself wrong, by saying that man cannot understand God, then how can man write a book about God and even have any clue what he's writing?
And the book has been around for several hundred years.. yes, but what about ALL the books and stories and literature that was around THOUSANDS of years ago? Hundreds of years before the bible was written? are they now wrong? And why? Just because someone comes around, takes a look at polythesim, says that monothesim is the right way, kills anyone and everyone that doesn't convert, then claims to be peaceful? Crusades anyone?

All those that think that the extremist muslims killing in the name of God are wrong, sure it is, but they are just behind the ball, the Christians beat them to that game by a few hundred years. Why was it ok for 1 religion to kill large percentages of the population in the name of God, but not a different religion?

Want a negative, non-civil comment?

The only thing religion has provided is an excuse and reason for murder. Science may have provided the tools, but it has NEVER been the reason.

I'll take the most peaceful route, "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you". The golden rule surpasses ALL religion and it the ONLY perfect way to live your life.

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fort"

3ddraft, religion started this argument ("So many diiferent species on this planet and we are finding new ones every day and people believe it all started with ooze? What a joke." --Rod Avery)

You need to get your facts straight.

@everyone who judges those of "faith" - A good point that was brought up is that there are MANY religions and nearly as many Bibles versions (who have either political, or doctrinal "revisions"). The Bible states a warning for those who have made these changes at Revelation 22:19, "if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life...".

There is a very good reason for it, too. 1 John 5:19 warns us that the "whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one", what wicked one of course is Satin the Devil and at 2 Corinthians 4:4 is also called the "God of this system of things". The Bible explains why so many people are turn off from either organized religion or from having any faith in God at all. 2 Corinthians 4:4 tells us that "the God of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelieving". But it's not the entirely the fault of the "unbelievers" as many have been led away by false teachings and traditions that are God dishonoring. Revelation refers to these false religions as a whole as "Babylon the Great" or the "Great Harlot" because she has sold her self to the traditions of men.

Jesus and his apostles fought the Jewish leaders, the Scribes and Pharisees because of the way they treated the ones they were commissioned to protect. After the death of Christ and the passing of his faithful servants, a "great apostasy" took place and many of the original teachings that Christ and his followers fought so hard to maintain were changed or modified to suite the traditions of secular society. The trouble today is that many people pick up the Bible and simply do not understand what they are reading and for good reason, they turn to religion to help - but they are clueless to answer many of the BASIC teachings of Christ. Many people are simply reading with no knowledge of the history and geographical references or how the physical written Word got to them in the first place.

Here is an example, of what some people would read and interpret incorrectly simply for a lack of proper knowledge.

Romans 12:20 - But, if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals upon his head."

At first glance you may be confused because it appears you are instructed to do good to this person, but then it ends with "heap[ing] fiery cols upon his head", how would this make sense as coals would harm this person - a contradiction perhaps? However, the thought is that fiery coals are something used in a furnace - not to burn someone - but to "soften" a hardened person's thinking into seeing the error of their ways, much like fiery coals would "soften" hardened iron into a molding it to something useful.

For those who pick up the Word of God and dismiss it off-hand with out actually STUDYING it, really are doing themselves a disservice. Joshua 1:8 says "This book of the law should not depart from your mouth, and you must in an undertone read in it day and night, in order that you may take care to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way successful and then you will act wisely".

I come to this site to study and take in knowledge, I have a vast thirst for it (even if I don't agree with everything I read, but knowing the way others think being me understanding and enlightenment). Yes I whole-hearted believe in God and I truly appreciate the life that has been given me. One of the greatest gift that God has given me is that of choice, I can either choose to serve him or not. Who am I to deny the only requirement from someone who gave me everything?

Haters gonna hate is all I've got to say, but I don't blame you for it, you just don't know the subject very well.

Guys seriously, what the hell. I left yahoo news because I got tired of every comment being a fight between atheist and religious people. Can we just enjoy some new mushrooms in my soup and call it a truce? Please?

@3ddraft

1 You say attck science.

2 We are a free country. WHat that means is that we get to show you how you are wrong with facts and the like.

3 They have been civil but not on the topic of the artical.

4 You are just wrongin that idea. Science has no dogma. Never has and never will and that means has never been and can never be a religion. Using lies to attck something is an uncivil thing to do.

5 That's misinformation. I know some mistakes that matter alot. The comandment of thou shall not kill in the words hebrew it's thou shall not murder. How about the typo that change the sea the hebrews crossed from the read to the red. It think that matters alot.

So maybe there is a new mushroom...or something else. anyways I thought an exploding star was the cuase for our planet and existence gravity played a role in this as well. Besides god doesn't make humans. He doesn't exist. If he did he'd be making humans still. We all know about how babies are born correct?

When did popsci become the "let's-debate-science-over-religion" forum? Personal beliefs are just that - personal. We should keep it that way.

Getting back on topic, I'm not at all surprised at this; the amount of diverse life in our universe is enough that we probably wouldn't recognize it if we saw it. That's what so great about living - we can always discover new forms of life, progressing without preconceived notions that would stifle true research. Cheers.

@Siromar

"@Bagpipes100 So can we just condense your incoherent rant to "we do not know exactly how life arose from non-living chemicals, so it must be some god"? It's difficult to respond to Joyce-like stream of consciousness."

No, but you can condense it to. "The lynch pin to all of naturalism (abiogenesis) has no observable evidence to back it up....so how is it more than faith and a religion in and of itself?"

It's not better science.

And to say "we'll figure it out sometime" is an argument of no more value than a saying 'God must have done it' when ever something can't yet be explained.

I don't think I have seen this large of a troll session on Popsci before...

I have no problem with religion and science. Both are true at the same time. You just have to realize that are 2 separate things. Science is a description of the art God has made. Religion is the voice we all hear as God speaks to our hearts. The voice you hear and feel towards you heart and soul is the path of where God wishes you to travel. The world you travel is the ground of which God has made and science describes. Religion is consistently everywhere in this world and in the hearts and minds of everyone. We are like ants as God speaks to us. The voice is so loud, different and strong, we either do not pay attention, confused, mystified or frightened. But the voice is speaking to all. Science is simply describing what God has made. WOW, what a mystery us ants attempt to describe!!!!

Thank you God for this day and to enjoy the wonder of life itself!

@bagPipes100 So the origins of life is the hole you're hiding in at the moment? Not having the complete details over how something works is unrelated to saying "it must have been magic" as you are doing.

It has been clearly shown that the ingredients of life can emerge from chemical mixtures like those that were present on earth when life began. Or is your god hiding in those few proteins that we have not yet produced?

How about the recent creation of a synthetic cell? I'm guessing that's invalid because they had to use some natural components? Maybe god created the cell wall?

Your world view is so thin that it obviously was fully formed once you heard the word abiogensis on foxnews.

@ 3ddaft.
"Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10", in saying to attack science is a contradiction of that verse, the bible has no contradictions that i have ever learned, its all in context and the way it is used, the way you used it is wrong, God is Love... But if it was a typo, and you meant Shouldnt, as that makes alot more sense. then yes i agree.

@CodeZero.
when the bible is refering to "they" it is because there is three powers at work often reffered to as the TriUnion, they are The Holy Father, Spirit, and Son. I could try and explain it now, but id probably butcher it, i can look it up if youd like and try. as for your take, i dont quite understand it, if we were aliens wouldnt we be more advanced than we are? imean it was only a could years ago that the cell phone was invented. and gone forward with it. to other things.
as for the bible being written by Men, yes it is, but God told those men what to write. wether it be through a dream, or an angel, or he physically told them. everything was told like a historical account, as in it(s)/ was being observed.

@zaptar13,
God made the first man able to reproduce, and then made the woman, adam and eve... they made kids then they made kids etc. so no God would not have to make them repeatedly. that would be ridiculous, not because he couldnt do that, it just seems like it would be ridiculous

@kokofan50.
Sin is Sin to God, it does not matter what kind of sin it is, it all will get you the same place, there is no sin thats worse than another.

Whatever another man's religion, we as individuals are responsible for the actions and choices we make in life. You can pay attention to another person’s words of religion, but you do yourself best to find God's voice yourself of which you will be accountable. Another man's voice will not save you. You were made for a purpose in life and will be judge individually at the end of life.

@Zach_M

Did you read what I typed?!?!?!? My point was there are mistakes every where in the bible! Why i said the mistakes matter alot is that they change the meaning or other important parts of a story.

God is law. Law is the stability of how we comprehend everything else and build upon. Chaos is the opposite of which nothing can be built or depended upon. Jesus is the brother of which really understands our own individual perceptions. Spirit is the truth of our intention. We may break the law and our dear God and Jesus forgives us and we are saved if we are correct in spirit. But if we break the law and our hearts knowingly against the spirit, nothing can save us. Contempt, disrespect of the spirit is attempting to abuse the Love of God and forgiveness of Jesus, knowingly. This would only lead to chaos. This cannot be tolerated and so contempt of the spirit leads to exile. All I speak of is yes religous and has nothing to do with science. Science is a human invention, description of the art God is made. They are both 2 different things. The end.

All the religious people need to get out. What created GOD?

The bible may have mistakes written from a scientific perspective. It is written by human hands, with human hearts, being perceived by humans. It is not science. It's a record of hearts. To judge the bible from a scientific perspective is just silly. You miss the original point of all from the beginning..... It’s simply to help others to the voice of God and to help others to be closer to God. Each of us individually must find our own way and will be judge individually. You will find more how beautiful God is, if you study other people's religions, cultures. As much as we are different in this world, its wonderful beautiful how we all hear the same good things about God and how much we have in common.

God created God and time, history, present, past, gravity, matter, electrons, protons, you, me, him, them, us, the other thing and that things too.

Oh no. Smurf village has finally been found!

I love my religion.
I am fascinated by science.
I adore cartoons, including the Smurfs.
Though, when ask to drink the cool-aid, I don't do this.

@Siromar

Ever tried being a skeptic? I know you've been taught a lot of naturalistic dogma.....but consider your arguments.

"It has been clearly shown that the ingredients of life can emerge from chemical mixtures like those that were present on earth when life began. "

Yes, ingredients necessary to sustain life.....but where is the scientific model to start life with those? There's a difference between sustain and start.

"How about the recent creation of a synthetic cell?"

Nice case for intelligent design......but you still have to come up with the conditions by which it occurs by itself (no intelligent involvement), and then find those conditions out in the universe and then watch life start in order to call it observable evidence.

Seriously, wrestle with this issue. Stop and think about it for a moment. Abiogenesis is a big problem in naturalism.

Am I the only one who thinks that bigfoot probably is a symbiotic assembly of Cryptomycota? This would explain why there are bigfoot sightings but no body, scat, etc. is ever found....because in reality he is just a collection of cooperating organisms. Mystery solved! At the very least, you have to admit its a novel theory.

weak minded people created God.

Naturalism does not need dogma. Only religion needs indoctrination. Or do you think its perfectly normal for someone to think Harry Potter created the universe? Oh sorry, a superhero named Jesus who enjoys life in space.

At first, it was the gods who made everything. They shot thunder from their hands, and breathed fire from their lungs. Then it became one god, who lives outside of nature (whatever that means), and spends his free time making stuff.

Now, he has accepted the position of a supervisor. He just passes designs along, and lets nature do its thing. Where will your imaginary friend hide next?

Just because a complete answer is unavailable, does not make your "hypothesis" any less ridiculous. Unless you have a mechanism for how this mysterious god works, you have absolutely nothing of value to say.

Seriously though... why must it be attributable to the magic man in the sky? Neither argument can definitively prove what happens at the beginning. The only difference is that evolutionary science, works on emperical data. And is revised as is necessary to accomodate data. The "creationist" claim has no such flexibility. If Abiogensis is unable to be proven, and a new basis for the whole theory (scientific definition of "theory" biblehumpers) is suggested, then the theory of evolution will change accordingly. There is no way... none, to change the basis of your creationist claims. Regardless of what data may be presented, no matter how much observable fact is introduced, for you, it MUST be attributed to god. What a cop-out... Can't the universe just be beautiful because it exists as a result of chaos that forms order, and not because it was made by some narcissistic, abusive, and elusive all seeing father figure? Why are you people here, just to piss the rest of us off? Do we go into church and start quoting science when you're reading scripture? No... go back to church, and please... STAY THERE.
"Humanity will never be free until the last King, is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." Hellelujah.

@ Itellifyouask "If you don't believe in evolution, what are you doing on here in the first place? And secondly and more importantly, does it taste good?"

So because we don't believe every facet of evolution we are not allowed to voice our opinions? Because we believe science is a direct result of God separating us from the animals, our voice should not be heard?

And another question, since science is considered so great by so many, are you happy where science has taken our planet? Sure, we understand a great deal about a lot of things, but probably just scratching the surface, is the price worth it? We now have the ability to kill pretty much everything on the planet multiple times by several different means. Because we're addicted to science, we crave all the latest and greatest things, devouring and polluting our planet in the process.

We've been destroying our planet for centuries and I don't see it ever stopping. We are a doomed species because we lack the will to change because we believe we can do anything, right up until we kill everyone and all our "achievements" count for naught.

@Severeign "...Can't the universe just be beautiful because it exists as a result of chaos that forms order, and not because it was made by some narcissistic, abusive, and elusive all seeing father figure?"

So in your opinion this beautiful, balanced, extremely orderly universe is just so exquisite by chance? We just got lucky the universe works so well? We just got lucky life on this planet is able to continuously sustain and recycle itself. Just the result error and progress? I just don't understand how people can see how ridiculously complex the universe is and believe that it "just happened."

@ Rod Avery

- This isn't make-a-wish foundation. If you have a problem with a certain aspect of a scientific theory, then by all means. If your problem is simply that you'd like it to fit more closely with whatever you want to believe, then this isn't the right place.

- Yes, quite happy. And very glad that religion is so weakened in the Western world. We have seen what happens when religion has the last word, and you can keep it.

- The destruction of the planet is a human issue, that must have human solutions if we are to persist. But all efforts to fix the problems are often opposed by the religious who think the end of days will make earth obsolete. Or do you think reading the bible will fix the problems we created.

Just two minor observations:
"The man who beats his 10 years old is not a christian":
From the Bible "spare the rod, spoil the child". So he is a christian after all.
"Belief in Science is just another religion"
While this shows a fundamental lack of understanding of Science, does anybody else find this rather humorous? That religious people would attack by a sentence that makes religion sound like an insult? Just sayin'.

Belief is just something that most makes sense to an individual, so it's fine if you think God plucked everything onto the world in short amount of time. The Big Bang theory and expanding universe isn't much different in that sense.
Evolution is a word that describes a change over time, so hopefully you can agree that two living (bisexual) organisms reproduce to create a different offspring as a result. Natural selection has shaped who we are today from that singled celled organism that eventually evolved to sense the world around it, we are here finding new things everyday.

@Siromar

Sad you won't deal with the issue at hand. I don't know why I expect so much from 'skeptics'.

You need to deal with that unfounded idea of abiogenesis.

Rant and rave all you want against the kind of strawman God you make up to push over.....but seriously, if you claim intellectual high ground maybe you should have a foundation for it.

Arguing for the evidence of evolution is meaningless if life cannot occur. So don't go there. How did life first start? You (in your own arguments) gave pretty good reasons to say an intelligence made it......but you don't hold to that.

Defend your position.

If anyone can show that abiogenesis (which must occur for evolution do do anything) is more than mere faith, then maybe you'll justly be able to say that your belief in 'science'(for you just propose a single model of science) is more than just mere dishonest religion.

Do I need to keep repeating myself? I submit that there exists no complete model for abiogensis. I am perfectly fine not knowing. Isn't that what science is? Finding out the unknowns? And isn't what you're doing the exact opposite? Finding comfort in a fantasy that can neither be confirmed nor refuted?

Many MANY other aspects previously attributed to a god has been explained by rational inquiry. You simply found an aspect that has not been fully uncovered. So you hid your god behind it. Why do you expect me to answer a question that was never asked? You claim that intelligence is responsible for life, not because of any supporting evidence, but because we do not possess a complete model to refute it.

Fact is, we are here. We can trace back our origin for the past 5 BILLION years. What is beyond that can be the works of god or unicorns or time travelling aliens looking for an adventure. Or like everything else in life, can be eventually explained through natural processes.

@Siromar

Ya, the Bible does have a lot of answers. You can't just take everything out of it literally. It's only a guide, not to be taken verbatim, as it was written by man, but the essence of it is God. If everyone did read the Bible and followed the Golden Rule, this world would be a much better place. Instead, with the resources of this planet being exhausted, people only care about themselves and how to further their own ends. Thus the rich get richer and to poor get poorer.

And the atrocities committed in the name of God is not of God, but of the decree of man. One of the commandments is to not murder. How wonderful would this planet be to live if the 10 Commandments were followed? You can contribute horrible things done by religion on religion, but if the things done by religion go against the teachings of God, then it is a false religion, i.e. the catholic church, islam, and so many others.

@pierak

There is a difference between disciplining your child and beating him until he is covered with bruises. I was spanked when I was a child and I would say, hopefully others as well, that I am a morally outstanding person. I know a brother of a friend of mine who's parents let him do whatever he wanted when he was a kid, stay out late, and now he steals all kings of crap, my shoes and watches when I was on vacation included.

Anyways, doubtless people are incredibly tired of this argument on here so I'm done for a while.

I encourage everyone to ACTUALLY READ the bible and do the homework behind it. See just how accurate it is, how so many prophecies that tell exactly how many years something will have came true. Just look at Daniel 9:24 and how that was fulfilled exactly how long he said it would. How can you not believe?

@Rod Avery

The ten commandments clearly prescribe murder to all who refuse to follow the tribal god of ancient middle easterners. It also clearly states that one must also murder adulterers, disobedient children, and pretty much anyone who would not conform with the hilarious rules of those times. And to say that the crimes of the religious are not related to religion is absurd. They committed them in the name of religion. That's that. That is what religion contributed. Thousands of years of savagery and darkness. Oh, but it also gave people comfort by eliminating fear of death. Worth it!

@Siromar

Fact is you're whole understanding of the universe is nothing more than a story made up by people, a story that when followed back to where it must begin has some big unproven assumptions. Upon these assumptions stand or fall the rest of the argument.

"Fact is, we are here. We can trace back our origin for the past 5 BILLION years. "

Only if your assumptions that your specific scientific model are true.

You can keep stacking turtles all the way down....keep making one assumption to try and make a previous one sound better. But at the end of the day you have not proven naturalism.....and you certainly haven't disproven a creator since the scientific models using a creator work quite well.

No, it isn't reason that has brought you to a naturalistic conclusion, because it is unfounded if you can't answer the questions I've raised.

@Bagpipes100

No, no, no. On the one hand we have a theory supported by volumes upon volumes of evidence from fossil records, geology, DNA analysis, anthropology, linguistics, and many other fields. They also observe countless phenomena that can be easily explained by biological evolution. And some evidence from the chemical and biological sciences that explore the origin of life. All of that is on one hand. Now on the other you have a bunch of people who say god did it.

You do not pose any questions. So there is nothing to answer. You hold to the fantasy you've been brought up in, because challenging it would mean reexamining your whole life. So you create empty arguments that help you ignore a mountain of evidence, and focus on one or two things that give you hope.

So, which is more reasonable: scientific evidence supporting naturalist processes that can be reviewed and confirmed by anyone, or someone really wanting it to be a god?

"No, no, no. On the one hand we have a theory supported by volumes upon volumes of evidence from fossil records, geology, DNA analysis, anthropology, linguistics, and many other fields"

All interpretation built up from scientific models which are based upon unprovable assumptions. Like I said, a story made by men used to try to understand the world we live in.

"You hold to the fantasy you've been brought up in, because challenging it would mean reexamining your whole life."

And you're any different? Your blind faith in the story called naturalism would suggest otherwise.

"They also observe countless phenomena that can be easily explained by biological evolution."

'can be' is a good way to put it. Because it 'can be' explained otherwise.

I am waiting for the explanation then.

Go on. Other than "oh god did it!".

Let's hear it. Explain to me how it was done. I will accept a model as incomplete as what we have now.

@Siromar

"I am waiting for the explanation then.

Go on. Other than "oh god did it!".

Let's hear it. Explain to me how it was done. I will accept a model as incomplete as what we have now."

Don't you see the absurdity of your question? I could turn it around and ask "tell me how naturalism works.....but you can't assume abiogenesis occured".

You can't be serious. You rant and rant about how naturalist explanations only work because of a manufactured perspective. You claim that given a different perspective, other explanations would also have explanatory power.

But you cannot provide that perspective. All you have is "god did it". Yet you reject a mountain of objective and very real evidence. What is the basis of your objections? You feel it in your heart? Is it like when parents tell their children to "do it because I said so"?

It's okay I suppose. After all, you have 'faith'.

@Siromar

"Yet you reject a mountain of objective and very real evidence."

That real objective evidence must be fed through and interpreted by scientific models based on unprovable assumptions. We've been over that already. I don't reject the evidence, I reject the assertion that naturalism is the only way to rationally interpret it.

I really don't have to give anything more. My point stands. Naturalism has no intellectual high ground. Unless you can explain how abiogenesis works, 'god did it' works just as well. Think about it for a while, I'm not saying you have to believe it, but try to find out where that explanation wouldn't cut it.

Why do all mammals and animals share a large portion of dna. why were there no other cells that developed in the primordial soup that evolved into some of the life that we know. given that cells were originally created randomly with different dna patterns we should see more large creatures that have vastly different dna's. why are there not any monkey like creatures that have vastly different dna's. I'm sure this can be possible.

p.s. this question is nothing to do with religion vs science. im just curious

well well, 86 comments says that this is the most important discovery in the history of science.

I am non-religious, but I have a very scientific upbringing. And I have realized something that people seem to deny:

Science is a religion.

Instead of blindly following one way or another, it is best to raise yourself above petty squabbles and see the entire picture. Is creationism right? maybe. is evolution right? maybe. But either one is not the complete picture.

There is a greater truth out there; the actual truth that both science and religion attempts to pursue, and it is hiding just out of reach... we just need to accept all points of the spectrum, evolution and creationism alike, and see past the blind devotion that we set ourselves in.

@eregorn8

"Science is a religion." No, it's not!!!!!!!! Sciance is away of doing things that find factes and understanding of how thing work. Religion gives you bs then tells you are fucked if you don't but it.

Ok heres my ideas;
just because everyone believes in something doesnt make it true "absolute truth"
just because something cant be proven or disproven like god doesnt make it true
and just because you believe in something doesnt make it true because truth is subjective
however science has answered alot of questions like is the world flat, or is the earth the center of the universe
thats why i like science so much cause the answers are logical and simply makes sense to me.
viva la scientific revolution!:)

@kokofan50

Define: Religion

arguments like that really come down to definitions; my definition, that religion is a belief in a system-aka, science- may be completely different then other peoples.

Wow, I am amazed how many ppl showed up to talk about this :) Let's turn this in to a psychology experiment. There seems to be three types of people in the mix. There are the insistors, who think they are absolutly right and they are perfect. or they type as such. Then there are the penny-pinchers who only want to give their opinion, their two cents. Then there are peacemakers who try to resolve everyone and make everything happy again. lol.

I do believe that science is not a religion. many of the stuff inside your physics textbook can be observed by YOU!!! science is dynamic and changes IFF (if and only if) there is enough evidence to back a new claim or observation. Again, "scientists" do not (or at least try not to) be unyielding. Say some day we find proof that the Earth is indeed flat (like someone way up there said about involving extra dimensions...i would like to give him credit) then we would accept that the earth is flat so long there is enough proof. Facts. Hardcore evidence. Religion cannot be proved or disproved by science (so far at least.) Again i believe the main function of religion is to support morals and to attempt to answer questions about the real/imagined world. Religion itself can be good, if it keeps otherwise immoral people moral, but not all people need religion to be moral. I believe there is always a chance something is possible (quantum physics!!! lol) even a chance there is a god, tho i believe that chance is remote. just me. If god created reason and science, they should not fight and cancel each other out, but to complement and inhance one another. But if there is a god, and he has a conscience, i would think he would feel guilty for sending me to burn my ignorant self in hell, because even if i dont believe in him, I still believe in many of the morals he sanctioned. Now PLEASE dont make me eat that mushroom thing...i hate mushrooms. Wonder why the middle bulges so much. perhaps to store starches?

well, at least most religions keep people moral...(Not refering to any specific mind you.)

@jacks721 WE DO!!! thats what this whole article is about. we have a very few branches of life. sorry. I dont know them all. and some sources have borader and not so broad trees of life. Bactria, Virus, Fungi and Mamales have VASTLY different DNA strains.
ALL life on the planet can be traced back to these familes. All mamamles share a large portion of DNA becuase... let just give this example. very basic. OOZE happens. Amino acids come together. they form "life" lets say that life turns into 10 different new lifes. virus is one, Bactria is one, mammals, reptiles, fungi and six others. well the 6 other died out. all we are left with are these 5 and mammals continued on their path, viurs theirs, fungus theirs, and so on. so does that make any sense?

and yes. abogenisis does not equal evolution. lets just suppose god plopped us down here fully formed 10,000 years go. human evolotion has occured in those 10,000. right now even. wisdom teeth, apendix, little toe. you name it. i hope I dont have to explain that...

@ Rod Avery - and the rest of 'em (you know who you are)

I'm a firm believer that the universe, being infinite and diverse did not "just happen". It took billions of years, and countless reiterations for it to happen. It's not luck, there are billions of stars, in billions of galaxies... it's insane to think that just because earth is perfectly suited for life here, that it had to be made. The chances that the earth exists as it is, with everything needed for self-sustaining, evolving life is infinitismally small, and is it any wonder that it happened when you have so many variations across such an enormous canvas? I mean, if you make enough grilled cheese sandwiches, sooner or later, one is going to come out that has toast marks on it that look just like jesus... does that mean jesus has passed his infinite glory and kindness on to those two pieces of bread and melted cheese? What... are you f@cking stupid? It's a grilled cheese sandwhich, not the divine likeness of a two thousand year dead david blaine.
The universe and life may have happened through a primary source, that controls everything, it may have just happened, as you so eloquently put it. I really don't care which proves to be true. What I do care about it people coming here, and declaring in no uncertain terms, that the wonder, and glory of our seemingly infinite universe can only be attributed to the likes of that completely worthless god of yours. Unfortunately for us, you have every right to slop your theistic garbage onto the rest of us, as if keeping it to yourself isn't good enough. Of course it isn't good enough, not one of you will ever be happy until the whole worlds views everything as you do... And before you compare us to you... stop. We don't go to your places of worship... and if you insist on calling science a religion, than THIS is one of our places of worship... We don't go into your private god-pods and start spewing our naturalistic nazi garbage on you... so why do you do it to us? Just riddle me that batman... WHY do you insist on spreading your god-jelly on my toast? I don't mess with your idiot beliefs, don't mess with mine. What you believe is on you, I'm not trying to change your beliefs. But why? Can one of you biblepumpers answer that please??? Why are you here defacating your dogma on this parade? Don't you have abortion clinics to burn or something?

Religions keep people moral? Crusades? Inquisition? Boy-molestors of the catholic church? (And the vatican mandated doctrine of PROTECTING said molestors NOT the children the molest...) Manifest Destiny? The Ku Klux Klan? The Aryan Nation? 9/11? The systematic persecutions of the Dark Ages? Salem witch trials? Son of Sam?
Is that the morality you're speaking of? Religion is a blight on reasoning and intellect, it allows good people to do horrible, monstrous things, and relieve themselves of any wrong doing because they are doing it in the name of god. Some religious people are truly righteous. The rest are blind hypocrites. Religion is the most a-moral institution that exists in humanity today. It advocates hate, bigotry, child abuse, ignorance, irresponsibility and intolerance. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Nothing frightens me more than blind, unwavering faith in something that cannot be proven, observed, or quantified. It's the kind of psychosis that allows you to get onto a passenger jet liner, and fly it into a building... and not once feel bad about the misery and suffereing you are creating for everyone else. And by defending it, in it's bloody, deluded history... you shame us all.

@eregorn8

Religion-
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

Science-
1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
2. systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.
3. any of the branches of natural or physical science.

Both by dictionary.com

See science isn't a religion and can never be by definition. If you start doing something like saying Sir Isaac Newton's birthday is a holiday the you could say it's a religion but then it would stop being science.

Science is a system used with in a religion. Naturalism is a religion.

wow incredible. just goes to show how full of life one tiny clay of ball is and how unexplored it is. imagine whats in other exo planets in space 10 bigger than earth?

@Severeign
I am not saying all religions keep people moral all the time. yes, the Salem which trials and the inquisition were fueled by religion. I personally do not support religion, but I am just saying that religion CAN BE a way to enforce moral behavior (do not kill, steal, etc) though obviously it does not ALWAYS work like that. Some people may get in there heads that motivate them to do such things in the name of religion. But I do agree that religion can induce hate, mistrust, and ignorance and intolerance even when they sanction love and mutual existance. The only religion that I know of that has never killed anyone is Pastafarianism. yes Pastafarianism. but you cant judge the person simply by what faith they have. Take muslims for example. Only the radical ones took lives in 9/11 and such. a VAST MAJORITY dispise the radicals as much as we do and expressed great relief at "his" death. they are just as good people as the rest of us. Just saying, be careful what u say. for all we know, we all could be blinded by our beliefs right now, no matter how we think things came to be today, creationism or evolutionary terms. Cmon guys, lets just move on. this thread is way too long. we all have better things in life to do. Everyone lets just say "kool 'shrooms" and get the hell out of here.

I am just going to start off by saying that am not religious in any way whatsoever, and that I use my senses and my logic that I possess.
I have many friends of various religions and cultures. I have asked them about their respective religions. I have come to realize, they are all extremely similiar (they may have different gods, but they do about the same thing, their books may be shorter or smaller, but if they were paraphrased, it be almost equivalent). All religions say that they are absolutely correct in every way possible, yet this is a contradiction in itself when there are multiple religions upon our planet Earth that we call home.
I refuse to believe that we were "created" and just set free to do whatever. What about all the fossils, the oldest which have been dated to 600 million years ago? This has been determined by radioactive dating, a process that has been proven by exhaustive scientific research based on logic.
@Bagpipes100
"All interpretation built up from scientific models which are based upon unprovable assumptions. Like I said, a story made by men used to try to understand the world we live in."
The vagueness and the confused manner in which you choose your vocabulary underscores your inabilty to make rational arguments (Oh wait, you believe in a god, "rational thinking" isn't in your dictionary). You use the term "scientific model" in a way to make it appear as if it is anything but scientific, and the use of this word in your sentence does not allow to see if you understand its meaning. Then you go on to say that it is based on "unproven assumptions". You don't even give the courtesy of listing them out (Oh wait, that's becuase there aren't any.) I would liken your argument to this:
Person 1: I know (scientific fact)
Person 2: How do you know that's true? Did they tell you that? Yes I know that it's so called "scientific fact". How do you not know they're lying to you? Ho do you know for SURE that it's true?
By the way, you sound like a broken record with a translator attached: you say one thing, and then your next comment is the same thing thing, just worded differently, bringing nothing else to validate whatever you're saying. Oh wait, it's a religion, it doesn't need a religion. Just the approval of millions of brainwashed individuals.
Religion is great in that it promotes good morals, but besides that, its a load of crap.
I hope I have settled this debate. Please now lets have a real conversation about the possible implications this discovery of a new clade could have on the understanding of the living world.

Sorry: "Oh wait its a religion, it doesn't need a reason"

OMG people, take it to a theology forum. Abiogenesis, creationism, evolutionary-creationism. There are no indesputable theories either way at this point so debating it is a philisophical debate that will never end. Quit cluttering up the forum with useless prattle that is waaaay off subject.

Now for may actual post:

I have always been a fan of the search for new life on other planets, but it is equally fascinating that we are still discovering new forms on this planet.

I cannot wait to see what fruits this research yields. Looking at the last 150 years of advances to come from fungi, bacteria, other simple organisms instills we with great confidence. This despite my faith in humanity being somewhat fettered by the worthless prattling in this forum.

@ Rod Avery:

"So many diiferent species on this planet and we are finding new ones every day and people believe it all started with ooze?"

It is precisely because evolution successfully explained all the varieties that people changed their mind on abiogenesis as well, from unexplainable large step to possible to get from incremental change.

And no, it isn't "ooze", which is more apt to describe creationist claims as they wiggle about. There are many pathways that seems feasible, and for example surface chemistry on pyrite is one of them which is quite the opposite from Darwin's warm pond. (Not "ooze" either, I haste to add.)

How do you get 100+ comments on an article about biological reclassification?

incorporate religion into the first comment!

Btw if we're so high mighty for believing in science, why do I still see others like me, bickering like church goers to other church goers.

May the Big Bang save us! -_-

Not to disrupt the serious debate but..

When I read the title "Biologists Announce Discovery of an Entirely New Branch of Life" first thing that came to mind was ... Midichlorians!

I have a question to the folks of POPSCI. Why did you folks burry this webpage from general public view??!?! At the very least, this article was generating much conjecture.
How odd of POPSCI to remove it from the general webpage. Strange indeed!!!

I did have a typo and I apologize for that. I mean't to say that believers shouldn't attack scientists or others for their beliefs. As far as the rest... I still hold to what I said.

The scripture reference was for the believers to help them understand why it's a fruitless effort to really argue religion on here. I think it can be brought up since it forms the basis of our beliefs but we should go around attacking others or their ideas. Those are opinions best left to ourselves. That being said... if someone is attacking my family then I will rise to defend them... as a believer, other believers are my family... even if they make some wrong comments that start a firestorm of criticism. That's what I meant to convey in my first point. Again... the rest I still hold to.

And still... God bless you. (Everyone!)

for christ' sakes, all pun intended, this is a science site, get a life

Ok, Ok, this is so elementary and simple to understand. I cannot believe an outsider like me has to explain, but I will. Just for one moment you take the smartest guy on the planet, multiply him with 1000 helpers working on the same project and 1000 or more years in the future with a computer 1000 years better in the future. Ok, are we all together and there. Human culture for the most part has only been advance for 3000 to 5000 years, so what's a more 1,000 years more, ok. Now follow me.
Now 1000 years in the future, one guy can know all the answers or maybe he is just close. But he is really smart. And he does a couple of things good. He has good health and can repair his own body and mind and he can time travel. Now combine with these 2 aspects, what can he do? Hmmm, any guesses? He does anything he wants and has all the time to do it, simple. The big bang occurs over and over and over again, the beginning, the end and the future. How does he do all this, he does it via science. The rest of the all, well, he is GOD. And yes GOD is real! Now, take this to dimensions larger and farther and beyond all compression, but....... the first, yes, the first will be all knowing and able!
So science is a most perfect and growing perfection of the art that God has made and is growing every day. Thank you God!
From God, things have no value. So then what does have value? Its the soul, heart, choices of soul.
While our dear Lord is forever future advance of us, we are the same as strange as the object maybe be. God lives in all of us. He became originally from us. And we are to grow to him. God knows the laws and we are governing by the laws. God knows us and we are the past, week, behind and so forgiven. God walks with us, in Jesus and so we are forgiven as our brother, counselor.
But there is our spirit. Our spirit is the revealer of our true self. We cannot play games with ourselves or God. God knows our spirit. We can be saved or cast into exile for the true nature or our spirit. Contempt, disrespect to Holy Spirit is not tolerated. Our spirit is ourselves and the truth. Salvations and damnation is inside us and our heart, soul and choices; it is the truth of us.

I really do not know what more to add. I am going to sleep now. God bless to all. And for myself, thank you God for anything and everything. To the rest, listen for God, pray to God, and love others: think simple in life. Yes all of us will die, get over it, it will happen. Live a life for God and being correct in God. Well, for each of us; it’s our own journey, too. You are the owner of your journey.

just because you are a religous person doent mean you cant be on this site. this site is here to bring interesting discoverys and storys to EVERYBODY who has an intrest in science or thechnology even if you arent religous there are many of you that still reject other thoerys based on the facts, that is the same thing the religeous people are doing. further more i dont know why some of you felt that you needed to be dissrespectful of other peoples religon its fine to dissagree thats part of what science is. this website is for anyone to enjoy lets keep it that way. no race religon or theory should be criticized. and to everybody trying to push religeon or evolution or what ever on other people dnt get all butt hurt when other people say things happend differently. my advice is that every body trys to understand other peoples veiws before the critisizm comes in.

Maybe everyone is high on the mushrooms and this is why we all have to comment so much, ha ha ha! To much fungus a mungus I guess, ...... snort! I crack myself up!

For all of you that have decided that religious people are just blind and ignorant think again. If you who are criticizing would take the time to look through the bible you would see that Genesis actually goes along with the theory of evolution. I am a devout christian who believes in the Big Bang Theory. WOAH! There are those who believe the bible just in black and white terms, but don't assume that's everyone.
There is a God and if you put your scientific mind to work you'll realize everything comes from something.... but, where did that first "thing" come from? The creator of heaven and earth, evolution, and everything else.

I believe in god but what was the purpose of bringing religion into this? It just leads to flame-wars, trolling, spamming, and non-constructive discussion.

what i've gathered from wading through this mess of a comments board:

- siromar seems to have an uncanny knack for crystallizing my own views in succinct and eloquent ways that i myself are incapable of doing.
- bagpipes has a habit of sticking his fingers in his ears when attempting a response.

Did I just stumble upon the mystical and not so long lost "religion for dummies" portal? Nah, it's just a bunch of the skyman's lost sheep defacing popsci again.

@bbeard
i believe that the bible has truth in it. but its Figuratively Speaking. i dislike most religious people because they always think they are right. If a kid is murdered and tortured by their parents then religious nuts say it happened for a reason and it was god will. where was god and the Catholic church during the holocaust, inquisition, slavery etc.? Jim Jones led a bunch of sheep to their death because they thought he was right and were easily manipulated. David Koresh also but that's another topic. if you push science to its limited and full capacity(if there is such a thing) then yes "GOD" is possible and real.

Highschooler here, flame me if you want. Just thought i would say something

1. to whoever commented on the guy beating his son and sarcastically linked it to "spare the rod spoil the child" and the Bible, this is an incorrect veiw, the verse is Prov. 13:24 - He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to dicipline him (NKJV) note "dicipline" not "beat the crud out of" huge difference. Also, it is not an instance of "be an idiot then ask a guy for forgiveness just so we can do it again". A modern term for this kind of person is "poser". If he was a true Christian, he would repent, meaning "turn away".

2. Evolution is totally possible, just not to the scale people propose. MICROevolution is the key, not MACROevolution. As for macroevolution working with religion (specifically, Christianity) is absolutely ludicrous. In Genisis, the Bible specifically says "And evening and moring were THE first day" not "A first day", so the world was created in 7 literal, 24 hour days.*

3. The big bang is entirely probable. the point most people get wrong though, is the cause. If we look at distant stars, we see that they have a slight red hue as the stars get further away. This effect is called the red shift, where the light from an object shifts to red because the source of the light is moving away from the point of reference. This insinuates, as we go furthur back in time, everything goes the opposite direction ( or "in", so to speak)thus implying the need for a starting point (cue, Big Bang) Now for the next problem, where did it all come from? Simple, God. For you visual people, think of a slice of bread on a counter. A man walks up, thinks "you know, i would like a sandwich" so he gets some peanut butter, places it in the middle of the bread, and spreads it. (FYI this is not a literal translation, merely a visual analogy concerning a single aspect) so to sum up, Big bang is possible, but God started it, because "nothing" can't explode, sorry.

just to give your eyes a rest, for you will have had to read through 100+ articles to get here, I will stop here and post more at a later time

P.S. and you say religion is for the weak minded, whatever

*For those of you not familiar with the gap theory, i do beleive (correct me if I am wrong) that it states: There were thousands, if not millions of years between each day in Genisis, allowing evolution to do its stuff.
Hence, the pointing out of THE First day not A day

Why can't people just admit they don't know as much as they think or wish they did?

Children want to believe in fantasy. It is comforting to them. Myth is based in fact much of the time. Religion is myth. Earth is not the only habitable planet in the millions of universes containing millions of galaxies containing numerous solar systems. I have read three versions of the Christian Bible, the CEV being the most illuminating despite the 590 Commandments, the Book of Enok and edited facts that are missing. The Bible is incomplete, edited and contradictory. I read the Koran, Greek, Roman and several other mythologies. I read Dianetics and am fairly done reading Kabbalah. They are all very interesting and they all have many things in common if you can get past the smoke and mirrors. The fighting over religion through the ages says something very clearly. Believe in the good that you can do and in yourself. It is a mistake to live in denial and do nothing about the human condition. Leaving it all up to God is too convenient for able creatures otherwise we would not have arms and legs and a brain so complicated that science and religion can't explain exactly how and the timeline of development. If man was made in God's image then "God" was trying to tell you that He is more Human than superstitious beliefs will allow you to accept. Nothing has been solved or proven in all of this time accept that there is life out there beyond our world that is diverse and expansive. If we survive ourselves, maybe we will have to choose to reveal our vulnerabilities or let a new world think we are Gods because Santa Clause is coming, Kosher food is safe and improperly cooked pork can be devastating. Parasites tend to be very punitive and mysterious to primitive tribes of people. Take one low dose aspirin and no more denial!

I remember the days when reader comments on articles required editorial approval in order to keep the average idiot from sharing his asinine opinion in the same space the journalist is afforded. Can't we relegate the peanut gallery to their own shouting space away from the articles? You know, in the name of journalistic integrity? Yeah, I won't hold my breath.

WOW, great article right? Had sooo much to do with the debate between science and religion (or variation thereof). Thank you, Mr. Peebles for bringing up a great point. I wish that approval was still required before people boarded their bandwagons. You aren't gonna change the opposition's view...if you need to try then go to one of those boards. How cool is this article??? A whole new group possible characterizing a new clade? Isn't that more exciting then playing "I'm more knowledgeable than you are?"

It's just plain cool no matter who the hell(not a purposeful religious pun) created it. Ascomycota, basidiomycota, etc... bid welcome to CRYPOMYCOTA!!! We hope you'll stay awhile (otherwise publishers have too good a reason to create new editions that I don't want to have to buy, yet.)

Hey! Anyone notice the newly discovered mushroom up at the top of this page? Cool!

i like how religion is one of the main topics in this article. it makes sense. but guys come on, don't over do it.

@psciz
Yeah I saw that mushroom too - cool! Do you think it's offspring will be indoctrinated with unfounded religious beliefs? I hope not or they may find themselves in a very sad self-perpetuating cycle.
To all you religious peeps out there - you're the biggest single thing holding back the human race with you primitive dark age beliefs; we need a generation without religion so that we can move on - we only believe what we are brought up to believe, and you have no right teaching this shit to your kids - shame on you!

Simple
IF God is there...He is every where...So
I don't need to go to any spiritual place for him....or do any rituals
IF God is Not there.. So
I don't need to go to any spiritual place for him....or do any rituals

IF God is there...He understands why i don't believe in him..
Hence I don't have to worry.
IF God is not there ....What i say is true.
Hence I don't have to worry.

IF God is there...I am not bad. He is making me do bad things
Hence there is no hell for me...
IF God is not there...
Hence there is no hell for me

IF God is there...I am not good. He is making me do good thing
Hence there is no heaven for me
IF God is not there...
Hence there is no heaven for me

Only thing is earth...and only life is this life....No reincarnation
So live by simple rule...live and let live....don't fight in name of god/region/race.....

Mind blowing how this got started. Way to be!
Still amazes me that so many people still ignorantly assume that believing in the possibility of a greater being than ourselves or a creator, must be associated with a religion of any kind.

I am so not a follower of religion, but I do know some things were not edited away entirely in books. One that I was reminded of was the mention of the round earth versus flat, and our not having knowledge of it being round when certain texts were written. I find this interesting as there is a piece written that describes the earth as being a round sphere, (not exact wording) when he was taken away from the earth by someone he believed to be a superior being or God.

So if we really studied what so many religious fanatics go on about (their bibles and other religious books) we'd have that already listed as being known, as well as maybe some curiosity or a hint of at least as to who exactly did take this human high enough above th earth to see it as it can only be described from space?

We only know what we know,until we are proven wrong or we learn something else that proves we didn't know every aspect of what we previously thought.This happens constantly as we all know , at least I'd hope we all know.

Both sides of this asinine debate are wrong in assuming they know something based on something that some other human has written , and for that matter even allegedly proven in a lab some place. We can only "trust" we are being given the truth.

Thing is that neither side here can prove or disprove that they are spewing out truth or something from the grapevine.

I know what I know but arguing about it here is not something I am willing to do, regardless of what I believe or don't believe. I have heard better debates in a grade school classroom than on this thread, honestly.

"The human body contains about 30 trillion cells of over 200 varieties . Twelve billion of these cells are found in the brain,which contains about 120 trillion connections. All of this was supposedly generated through millions of mistakes, beginning with a single cell. Using all the assumptions employed by evolutionists, including natural selection, it can be shown that such a process would have required longer than the assumed 5 billion years of earth's history.
The probability of getting the first cell is even less, however. using information theory, the biologist H.P. Yockey calculated that the longest piece of DNA that could be expected with 95 percent confidence to form naturally would code for only 49 amino acids (most genes code for proteins that consist of 100 to 300 amino acids).

This is, as he said, much too short to provide even a start toward life . It is light-years short, in fact. Furthermore, even if the subunits composing the DNA could be lined up in the right order, these calculations do not take into account the improbability of their linking spontaneously. H.J. Morowitz calculated the probability of matter arranging itself as a bacterium to be 10-10 11 (this is may not display correctly in the web page).
That is one chance out one followed by 100 billion zeros! "

Anyone who believes the tales they were told as a kid of the 'magic daddy in the sky' who will give you all the toys you ever wanted when you're dead & your body is rotting in the ground is either mentally-ill or of subnormal intellect.

If you were brought up believing in the flying spaghetti monster & prayed to him daily it'd be pretty easy to de-program you - unless you were delusional & thought he 'responded' to your prayers.

Come on, humanity - time to throw off these medieval belief systems...

/facepalm

@Melungeon1

i did not know that. thanks for the information. and i somewhat agree with you. seeing how we are the only species on earth with the ability to know right from wrong and the intelligence we have makes me wonder if intelligent design was involved in our creation. just not your judeo-christian BS god.

I created a popsci website account so that i could applaud Michael Taylor. Nicely said.

most of these comments are a joke, right?

Do you guys know that the organelles in eukarotic cells originated from symbiotic bacteria? Check the mDNA///

Nuff said...

The religious people don't know their book or what evolution even is & so assume that atheists don't know either.
Science strives to change their beliefs to fit the facts, whereas religion teaches
to fix the facts according to your beliefs.

Science is always changing & since we don't know what caused the Big Bang we don't just put God as the answer until we find a better one, we should leave it unanswered, otherwise we are just as superstitious as the people in the past who thought that thunder & lighting were God & that the stars are really small.

Evolution is proven by breeding (also known as 'artificial selection') & through diseases which mutate through survival of the fittest.

So the rational mind is not as ignorant as the superstitious one (religion is an adopted superstition) because we don't need much scientific knowledge to understand how breeding animals works. We can easily see evolution with our own eyes, but when we are in planes above the clouds we never see God, because she/they isn't/aren't don't/doesn't exist.

Some of you religious people have stated incorrect facts about the Bible.
One of you said that in Revelation it says that "if anyone is to add on to this book let a thousand plagues punish their family" or something like that. But the guy who wrote Revelation was obviously only referring to his book 'Revelation', because the Bible didn't exist back then, it existed many years after when a bunch of guys decided what was to be included & what was to be edited out of "the word of God". Know your history people.

Why should a book of fictions like the Christian Bible be more truthful than any other book? Is Harry Potter true just because someone wrote about him in a book? I'd rather believe in Harry Potter - fewer people were raped & killed for that guy.

Also nothing could have possibly occurred BEFORE the big bang, since the big bang started time as well as space, so nothing can happen BEFORE time began, understand?

Also God is not an answer to anything, just another question. If the question is: "what created the big bang" & the answer is: "God" then wouldn't the question then become: "what created God(?)" etc.?

Religion has taught me to have good morals though - now excuse me a moment, I've got to go stone some homosexuals.