Could Iran's Ultra-Tough Concrete Withstand Bunker-Busting Bombs?

If one bomb does not do the trick, drop 50!

......................
SPOOKY!...... Life is

Anyone else notice how much talk there is of bombing some of Iran's nuclear sites? If you're really going to do it you don't normally give your target so much advance warning. This is not Israel's typical MO. Makes you think that they've got something else up their sleeve.... Diplomacy? Economic Sanctions? Destabilization? Stuxnet? Coalition building in the UN? All of the above?

@Laurenra7,
My guess to your question of having something up their sleeve is stealth bombers that countries confidently have and know IRAN cannot defend themselves against and so this a vocal warning, prior to sound of many booms!

if one doesn't do the trick, drop a few in a series and make a quake wave...10 going off back to back would do it

Here is my knee jerk imaginary response to any country in the future that drops 1 nuclear bomb on another country, whoever you are.

There are 192 members in the United Nations.
I say we create 192 day war or less. Less once we accomplish our mission, we stop.

I say the mostly highly technical capable country, with the best stealthy capabilities, go in and bomb the hell out of the first day. The second day moves to the next country.

We do this, until the very idea of dropping a nuclear bomb, the very premise of the idea for any other country around the world, becomes a useless act.

It would have to be completely conventional war, it would have to be united and it should put the fear in all other countries around the world to the extreme as we could muster!

Drop a tungsten crowbar from orbit

Jean-Claude Van Damme did the exploding concrete thing in Bloodsport. Send him!

it is in the US agenda to go into iran next. than Venezuela. i wouldnt be surprised if they staged another incident.

@NOM
brick no hit back. "CHONG LEE CHONG LEE". "you break my record, mow i break you"

"religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom"

-Killah Priest

Hi JediMindset,
I am pondering your new quote and wondering how you make such a large and proud response about all peoples religious. I will be more specific; what do you know of me. I am very much religious and for me, I do keep my mind and mind open to all the other cultures, religions, history and current interpretations. I keep myself in no prison.

Oh, my heart is Christian and yes I do still keep my mind and heart open to all that is around me. I personally feel free to do so and maybe even obligated. My Lord made me with this ability.

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

The stealth bomber comment really makes some sense. Using conventional "bunker busters" like MOAB, you just chip away... because it's delivered in stealth bombers, just work around the clock. They'd run out of ammo shooting at nothing.

... and I'm not sure how motivated the Iranian nuke guys would remain as the plaster continued to fall.

Let's say the US or Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities. What then? Go back next year and do it again? Will it become like pulling weeds? Iran's getting close again, time to go bomb 'em. How long does this go on for? Do we keep bombing them until they give up? What if they don't? No one seems to want to think beyond a bombing run even if it's successful. It might be that even with sanctions, political pressure or military action, Iran getting the bomb could be inevitable. I'm not sure what the acceptable or long term solution is other than change from within.

I hope it doesn't come to war with Iran. We've spent enough money, and lost & killed enough people over oil. By the way, what's wrong with saucer drones!
Oh, and @Robot
I apologize for implying that you worshiped Annunaki earlier. I obviously have no idea what you are like, and hold no position worthy of judging you. But I do disagree with your opinion that aliens influenced human history.
-Spouting a fountain of nonsense since 1995-

Pieces of crap americans and israelis. They go around threatening each and every country.
Iran has everyright to own nuclear bombs.
Same way Israel has nuclear weapons Iran can/should have them too.I for once am tired of american propaganda and israel hiena laughings. Having nuclear bombs does not prove anything. Not having them is more problematic.

@intrepidDesign: Simple. We keep the sanctions in place until they agree to let the inspectors in and we can prove that they've given up all attempts at building a weapon. Cost of living in Iran has already skyrocketed by over 40% and will only continue to rise since 70% of their economy is reliant on oil exports. Bombing is a short-term solution that will buy us more time for the sanctions to work.

@highermorals: Yes, because obviously we were sooo ready to go to war with Iran BEFORE they wanted nuclear weapons. Israel has nuclear weapons because they have multiple hostile countries around them that have already attempted invasions. The only country to threaten Iran in the last 50 years (before their talk of a bomb) was Iraq, and they're not in much of a position to invade anyone at the moment. Iran has shown time and time again that they are willing to fund violent organizations for the sake of eliminating Israel and the greatest fear at the moment is that they would be stupid enough to sell a nuclear weapon to one of these proxies. They have not shown that they can rationally work with the rest of the international community, and thus cannot be trusted with a nuclear weapon.

There will only be one bombing but it will involve nukes to take out their nuclear facilites. Israel has sub mounted cruise missles with hyrdrogen bombs that are laser accurate and thats the only way to dig out deep bunkered nuclear facilities.

And after that--the are will be to radioactive for decades to go back in and rebuild.

So no your theory of 'weed' wars is not reality.

alright, I don't understand why they are so worried, the best way to pack the best punch is low to high atmosphere orbit....the momentum alone would create a nuclear size explosion, if that doesn't do it....then drop another...I mean its common knowledge. Its the same idea as the so-called "Rods From God" I think they are just putting this up just to confuse the enemy....

I doubt Iran will ever disapear from the map either. This is what Israel and US kind of wants. They keep on talking about democratic and free Iran but democratic and free countries HAVE nuclear weapons. So yes Iran wants to become democratic and free by evolving weapons.

"The only country to threaten Iran in the last 50 years (before their talk of a bomb) was Iraq, and they're not in much of a position to invade anyone at the moment."

Now Israel and USA is threatening Iran with nuclear strikes which Iran can not counter-threaten. If you do nuclear bomb Iran forget about peace for the next 100 years. I hope Iran will fight back and revenge the strike by any means.

Any idea of a nuclear war, leads to another nuclear war. If the USA or any one particular country responds in defense of a nuclear attacked, it leaves open resentment from another country and the possibility of another further nuclear war will persist. A response to a nuclear bomb attack from one country to another needs a 100% response from the United Nations to establish the fact the planet EARTH will not tolerate nuclear bombs! The response to a nuclear attack needs to echo throughout history as not being tolerated by EARTH!
This is not only a USA problem; it is a EARTH problem.

The issue is here is whether the Iran is stable enough to possess nuclear weapons. Stable being defined as only for use as a nuclear deterrent. In other words if Iran were to build a weapon would they allow a group like Hezbollah access to it or someone crazy enough to actually use it? Obviously Israel does not believe that Iran is stable enough. Iran has threatened to wipe them out. But also most of Iran's Arab neighbors also feel the same way. The result would be a nuclear arms race in the middle east. Lets be honest here. If Iran were only enriching Uranium for medical research they would not build the enrichment facility in a hardened underground bunker in a military installation. There is a military dimension to their nuclear program. In reality I don't think Israel or US want a conflict with Iran or the attack would have happened already. Like some people here already said..... there wouldn't be so much talk about it. The result would be a world wide economic effect.

My issue, is this is not a USA problem, but Earth problem and if the United Nations would stand together, we not only get IRAN to give up their nuclear ambitions, with a 100% United Nations, being united, it then becomes logically conceivable to reduce and eliminate all the nukes from the whole world.

Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD),
It would irrational for a rational society to destroy another society, if they knew in advance it guarantee their own destruction.

So now the whole world has a stock pile of nukes here and there.

So the world needs to take (MAD) to the next level and the only way to do this is to be united.

If a united EARTH stands together for one single goal in a conventional way to eliminate an opposing country that owns a nuke; it then leads to the reduction and elimination of nukes from planet EARTH.

But it takes a 100% United EARTH!

@ Amun-Ra I agree with you but that is in a perfect world. You would need a United Nations organization with some real power. The problem is that most if not all soverign states put their national interests ahead of global interests. I would love to see the day when world stands with one voice on this issue but I doubt I will see it in my lifetime. The best we can hope for is to make sure these weapons don't end up in the hands of a state that considers using them as part of their national interest. Sadly I think Iran is such a state.

@gizmowiz

If you think that Israel or the US are going to use nukes to do this you are out of your mind.

"Israel has sub mounted cruise missles with hyrdrogen bombs that are laser accurate"

GET REAL! You almost sound like you WANT them to go nuclear. I'm not sure if you grasp the reality of it, but if Israel were to use it's nuclear weapons they would bring every Arab country down on them like a ton of bricks. Not to mention abandonment by the international community for doing something so reckless. The US will NEVER, I repeat NEVER use our nukes in this manner either, the repercussions outweigh they results.

So no your theory of nuclear war is not reality.

Is Iran the excuse?

Time for Awakening

Since 9/11 it's the War on Terror
One "false flag" attack so called by error
Blair, Bush, and Israel had a Pact in store
Their next surprise is knocking at your door
A hidden vile Idea from those who want "more"
will use you and your Belief for the next World War
As "chosen people" gain while Humankind loses
Greed wins not by the swords but by the words of Moses
Daring is to tell you when, better then to tell you rhymes
could not side with either one to get ready for our times
to look beyond and past today to seek for a solution
one only hope is there for you and spells Wavevolution

...................

A new type of Revolution wins with the ultimate weapon
Your Mind

@highermorals...consider a few things. 1-Israel did not sign the NPT. 2-Israel is not threatening to end Iran as they know it 3.The bigger issue at hand is Islam's 1,000 year war with Western Civilization. Most people can't contemplate this. When Iran gets nuclear bomb capabilities, the whole region will turn to crap. How do you think that will effect the USA? In your lifetime, maybe not much. However, your kids and grandkids, as the world gets smaller and harder to live in...it will matter. In the game of chess one slip and the game is over. It's not 1850 anymore, this will be in our backyard soon. I'm not saying you need to support Israel, but at least know the facts behind the issue.
Israel didn't sign the NPT because Jewish people will never again put the destiny of our people in the hands of others. Others who consistently turn a blind eye to injustice, slaughter and inequality which still permeates all societies.
Shalom.

The problem with your logic is that it fails to understand the depth of human deception and desire to control the world and enslave the rest. Religions all over the world do this already by brain washing their constituents into believing that 'all others are infidels' and non-believers are to be put to death. That's peer pressure to the nth power and that's what Iran would do if it had the bomb and no one else did.

America has already demonstrated it is not power hungry; after WWII we could have blackmailed the entire world into surrenduring or we would nuke them into non-existence but we didn't.

But Iran has sworn to destroy Israel and the MUTUALLY ASSURED destructions arguments don't hold in the case of a physically large country like Iran and a tiny nation like Israel because it only takes a couple of nukes to destroy Israel but hundreds if not thousands to destroy a larger country like Iran.

So until people understand that the whole argument they make about mutually assured destruction is false.

Intrepid: Want to bet on that? Israel has no choice in the matter as only nukes can dig out the facilities. You certainly don't understand the paranoia of Jews since the holocaust. I do. Israel has already demonstrated it's not going to work with the USA to protect it's interest when it involves nuclear capabilities--its' why they said NOTHING to the US about striking Syria or Iraq and why they won't say anything to the US about striking Iran with nukes. But they will because it's the only thing that will work.

A 5 megaton nuke like the W88 can dig out 500 feet of ANYTHING per bomb. Three or four on top of each other spaced 5 minutes apart can dig a hole 2000 feet or more down and destroy the facilities completely and make them radioactive so that the idea of rebuilding becomes a mute point.

I beg to differ your wrong and just wait till this Fall I will be proven right.

I fail to get the hatred between Jew and Muslim, but they have been at it for 5000 years or more. Guess they know better than me.

I thought the USAF was working on using old Navy gun barrels to bust these places. Seems I heard that the last test went like 300 feet into the desert.

Good news is that breaking concrete isn't the only way to get at the people inside.

"...The Pentagon won congressional approval to shift $81.6 million in funds to improve the military’s largest conventional weapon, the 30,000-pound Boeing Co. (BA) Massive Ordnance Penetrator, known as the bunker-buster bomb...,

...The Air Force took delivery in September of the first of 20 bombs built to fit in the B-2 stealth bomber. The bomb is six times bigger than the 5,000-pound (2,268 kilogram) bunker-buster that the U.S. Air Force and the Israeli Air Force have to attack deeply buried nuclear, biological or chemical sites. A December 2007 story by the Air Force News Service said the new bomb has a hardened-steel casing and can reach targets as far as 200 feet underground before exploding.

The 20.5-foot-long bomb carries more than 5,300 pounds of explosives and is guided by Global Positioning System satellites, according to a description on the website of the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency.

An Air Force fact sheet says “final system refinement, design and test will be complete in 2012, with additional deliveries in 2013.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-09/bunker-buster-bomb-improvements-sought-by-pentagon-win-approval.html

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

@Capefear
The GBU-43/B MOAB (Massive Ordnance Air Burst) bomb is not a bunker buster and cannot be carried by any stealth aircraft. It is dropped out of the back of a C-130 cargo aircraft and is used primarily to intimidate.

Perhaps you were thinking of the GBU-57A/B MOP (Massive Ordnance Penetrator)

The performance of "bunker buster" bombs was very underwhelming during the gulf war. This lead to the refunding of the MOP. It is hard to come by any data on how effective they are (which is understandable).

According to GlobalSecurity.org:

"On 28 January 2012, the Wall Street Journal reported that the Department of Defense had concluded that the GBU-57/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator was not capable of destroying certain facilities in Iran and had submitted a request for funds to upgrade the weapon... "

"...By some reports, it was expected to penetrate as much as 60 meters (200 feet) through 5,000 psi reinforced concrete, and 8 meters (25 feet) into 10,000 psi reinforced concrete (these number seem suspiciously high and may in fact be first in feet, not meters)."

If Russia and China can't get their probes or satellites to stay in orbit, can they at least get them to fall on IRAN..

SPAT!
"Oopsie, did we do that, sorry, it's space junk. We'll try again."

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

@gizmowiz

Yes. I will bet you that Israel is not nuking Iran by fall.

Also it would not taking 1000's of nukes to destroy Iran, they only have something like 18 cities large enough that would warrant such a use of force, and for most of them it would be complete overkill. The saber rattling claims of their leader calling for Israel to be wiped off the map are nothing more than your standard anti-semitic garbage every leader in this part of the world is practically obligated to spew in order to appease the idiot segment of their population. Change is coming to Iran, but if those nukes ever start flying you can kiss any change goodbye. My wife is Jewish as is her whole family and they aren't intimidated by this punk nor should the rest of the world be. Ahmadinejad is not universally worshiped by the people of Iran like Kim Jong Il was in NK, he's barely holding on to power and thus has to make the statements that he does in order to seem like a strong leader, which we all know is false. Israel starts lobbing nukes at her neighbors and it will be GAME OVER. The backlash would be insurmountable. Have you even read the studies they did of a hypothetical nuclear exchange between India and Pakistan? The ashes from even a handful of burning cities would have catastrophic worldwide consequences. I guess we'll see in the fall.

I wonder to myself, if it would be helpful for negotiations, to invite some IRAN diplomats to a remote section of Nevada and let them inspect a flat section of land, drive off several miles and watch a bunker buster bomb drop, then go back and see the hole we dug, conventionally speaking.

Sometimes seeing believing!!!

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

A link to the above refrenced Wall Street Journal article.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203363504577187420287098692.html

democedes,
Your link is a good read. They could take the left bunker buster bombs that are considered a little small and just dispose them on the IRAN leaders and their military, should we ever feel the need to drop bombs at all. I sure hate to see all that to go to waste.

I mean, should it ever come to that at all...
No need to waste them.

Since they are GPS guided. And they tend to dig 200 feet deep each time, then exploded, could we just do a Woody the Wood Pecker, drop one wait, drop another same spot and wait, drop another same spot and wait, repeat until we strike oil. Seems there are many options still open.

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

@intrepidDesign
I agree. Ahmadinejad does not have the support of the people. Even by rigging the last election, heh barely won. Ahmadinejad's days are numbered now as he no longer even has the support of the supreme leader.

A war started by Israel is just the political tool Ahmadinejad needs to be able to cling to power a little longer.

Just a thought.
How many 18kg projectiles moving at Mach 7 would it take to bust this bunker?

Put a ton of tungstan on a minute man and launch that at the bunkers.
Having that come down at a five miles per second should open it up.

Amun-Ra, a little apocalyptic today aren't we? Maybe you're not up on things like, you know, history, but so far there hasn't been a nuclear war. Even though millions have died in conflicts in the last century, none of them were nuclear wars. My guess is that's because nuclear powers have found successful deterrents to nuclear war, like, well, mutual assured destruction. I know, it sounds stupid to me too, but reasonably rational nations don't want to start something that will kill millions of people. It's worked so far. The big question is how rational the leadership of Iran is.

I like to see at the exact moment the bombers do their bombing run, have really big loud speakers mounted on the planes and play the song, repeatedly,

"BOOM! There it is!"
"BOOM! There it is!"

.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.

laurenra7,
With time people just forget history and so we are subject to it repeating. Nuclear weapons and the over redundant extreme quantity of them possessed by advance technical countries that can implement them within 15 minutes or less, poof, Earth, WORLD, DEAD, HUMAN SUFFERING-FINAL DEATH, GONE LIFE GONE, A SELF MADE HUMAN APOCALYPTIC REALITY!

And while some people can say oh, this has cause peace in the world, in fact, battles, wars, continue as always.

To make more personal and which you and most lot of people how lost touch with the emotional reality of it, how would you feel if you had a gun and another person had a gun and both of you, ALWAYS were pointing them at each other 100% of the time. You do not have this emotion and not having it means you have lost touch with the reality of our nuclear weapon problem as the majority of most people have.

Now for a logical, calm, rational person as yourself and the other person holding a gun too, (MAD) works. Two rational people will not kill each other, if they know for fact it will mean the destruction of themselves.

The monkey wrench to the problem is 2 things. There is a gigantic over redundant amount of nuclear weapons in the world, which puts a random undeprictable element into the situation.

Now include a type of radical religious group in their own minds that justify religious suicide. MAD DOES NOT WORK. It becomes possible to toss a nuclear weapon. Then the fear is, when one is toss, many will respond and they many more responses from this, 15 minute everything gone.
..............................................

I HATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS and they can be gotten rid of, if only the UNITED NATIONS AND OR THE WORLD CONVENTIONALLY UNITES AGAINST THEM!

Removing them will not stop killing, battles or war, but it does help to remove the apocalyptic element, which is establish created possible human fact! It is a fact as this moment, as you sits in your chair, in the next 15 minutes the world could be gone and this was created by us humans.
..................................................

IGNORANCE AND OUR NUCLEAR WEAPON CAPABLITY IS ABSOLUTELY THE MOST SCARE PART. FACT 15 MINUTES GONE!

The above things I was taught as a child. While over the years the quantity of nuclear weapons has been reducing, as everyone knows technology, the speed, accuracy has immensely increased. Rather than destroy the world 1000 times over, it has been reduce to 500 times and reduce to half the time to accomplish the task. Dead in 7 minutes.

the scariest thing about iran with nukes is iran's desire to use them. something every country on earth that has them does not want. its a last resort defense. iran wants to actually actively use them. over a dozen countries in the middle east have asked america to step in and do something about iran out of fear for their people. the leaders of iran are delusional, "Holocaust never happened". would you give a sadistic mental patient a hand gun? same principal. he may not use it but chances are that he will.

however if iran does get nukes and uses them, it is game over for iran. every country in the region will be out for blood against them. the country will be shredded and dissolved.

I don't think Iran will nuke Israel. Even the fundamentalist theocracy that pulls Ahmadinejad's strings isn't insane enough to obliterate a country with many sites sacred to its own religion.
However, Iran would happily supply nukes to terrorists. We are going to need a new word to describe nuclear armed terrorists. Terror won't be scary enough.

“May God Bless You, Protect You and Your Life Is Filled With Much Happiness!
And while you are sleeping, dispose of that nuke stock pile everywhere too.”