To Find Alien Cities, Look for City Lights on Distant Planets

Good stuff.

I read this several places over the weekend and I keep wondering why this is a new idea. I always thought since I was a kid that this would be the obvious way to find another advanced civilization. I guess I assumed scientist would think it obvious as well.

well what if they're alien dwarves that live below the surface???

-Knock knock
-Who's there?
-The Doctor.
-Doctor Who?
-Yes

not every "artificial light" is a light from "intelligent creature", here on earth, there are lots of animal and plants producing light. there are also chemical that can capture light..

given our very limited telescope technology, there is no way, we can determine anything out of that (a small spot of light, from a distance planet)..

a plant, animal or a volcano? or a unique river or chemical?

who can tell?

Our earth has natural static energies that flow with the minerals of the earth and rising and falling of the sun, also the rising and falling of tides and well as the act of flowing water.

This that little fact together with 3 pyramids in the same shape as the Orion system, coupled with their internal design being of a function nature and (zero, none) mummies ever being found inside them and the interior void of any type of symbols\hieroglyphics with the final addition originally the Nile used to run right next beside them some 3000 years ago (Flowing water of the Nile and the annual rise and fall seasonal flooding of the Nile.) and you have 3 light bulbs shinning to the stars with the rest of the earth not being light and it’s like showing to HOME, here were are, your reflection, come to us, rescue us.

The tools and skills of the local people could not make the pyramids on their own and they had not the lifting power to move some of the stones. Added to the fact, if you are going to build something, why choose the hardest possible way to do it; it illogical.

If the knowledge and skill and tools were common to building the pyramids, like any good carpenter of today and mansions, they build similar objects at home and create their own business and build them elsewhere. This did not happen.

The aliens phone home with their 3 pyramids, were rescored and picked up their tools and left.
The only thing the aliens left us earthlings some language, some culture, calendars, some objects pointing to a particular place in the sky, nothing more.

Yes, I agree, use a light bulp to see and be seen!

This is a news story?

"Loeb and Turner admit that this is an imperfect way to hunt for alien civilizations at a distance--the method more or less requires that the brightness of the day side and the artificially illuminated be somewhat comparable. That’s not the case on Earth, and would likely not be the case on alien planets."

Translation: Here's something we thought of that won't work.

Maybe PopSci can write an article on my "invention" - water-powered cars. You just have to add a whole bunch of gasoline to the water.

This is assuming that they would see light in the same spectrum that we do. Also, some animals have evolved to not need artificial light or light at all. Why are we not assuming this could easily be the case? I highly doubt another intelligent life form would have evolved in the same fashion we did. People seem to forget that the slightest deviation in history could provide an entirely different result.

Let's keep our minds open to other possibilities...

How so like us to instantly assume that advanced beings would artifically illuminate. What if they were advanced bat like lifeforms with no need for night time illumination? What if they posses eyes suited for dark enviroments and sleep during the light hours? or what if they don't have eyes at all?
Just sayin'...

Granted, with the million billion trillion planets out there, a few might have evolved similarly to humans. But lets not hang our hats on just one hook!

Playing Devil's Advocate since 1978

"The only constant in the universe is change"
-Heraclitus of Ephesus 535 BC - 475 BC

@Geewillikers, according to main line Egyptologists. The Great Pyramid was constructed in 20 years. However if you take into account the pyramid is built out of megalithic stones weighing 3 – 70 tons, you would see that this is impossible. If a stone was put in place every 5 minutes it would have taken over 100 years. Are we to believe these people who only had copper tools and no concept of the wheel apparently, placed megalithic stones with that kind of precision at less than 5 mins per piece??

Not saying Aliens built the pyramids, but modern science cannot explain how the pyramids were built.

@greatgan
My thoughts exactly. But it would still be awesome to find a planet covered in glowing things.
-Spouting a fountain of nonsense since 1995-

If this ever got off the ground it could probably be augmented with other detection techniques like looking for the tale tale markers of mining on asteroids etc. I think it was PopSci who had an article a while back which discussed looking for ET's this way. We'd use spectral analysis to look for chemical markers that might be synonymous with mining operations. We haven't evolved to the point of mining our solar system yet, but its reasonable to suspect other species have.

Don't take life to seriously! You'll never get out of it alive.
-Elbert Hubbard

I don't think we should look for aliens with similair resources as we. that would lead to wars. We need to find aliens unlike us, that uses darkness to survive.

LOGIC:-}

LIKE INSIDE EUROPA OR OTHER ICEY MOONS WITH OCEANS

Wouldn't the light take forever to reach us? By the time their light reaches us, a distant system/planet with a civilization could be there one minute, and gone the next by the time we receive a clue to their existence. Correct me if I’m wrong. Light isn't instant, you can't see the light bulb turn on the moment its switched at 100 billion miles away.. Though if you did catch a glimpse at a planet with "city lights" at least you know someone was there.

This is going off of the assumption that aliens are like us... which is very, very most likely not the case.

Aldrons Last Hope,
Some alien culture with the science, skills and knowledge traveled to earth. We all know how vast the cosmos is and so this skill had to be greatly advance. With skills like this we may assume they could do other great scientific things, live a long time, travel about our planet easily and so on.
So, something forced them to continue staying here that was out of their own control.
So us humans being religious since forever, they worked with the locals, they taught them things, simple things. As they use their really advance technology and the locals having a limited vocabulary to described it, saw it as GOD like behavior.

These aliens inspired the locals to work for them. So now we have one giant happy working force with advance leadership. By the way, the Egyptian culture back then had peace in that region for a long time.
The same type of copper tools the Egyptians have been made in test and use to bang on granite and other same type of minerals they used for the pyramids. Each tool point last about 5 or 10 minutes. It did not work so well. Now to mention the granite stones inside the 3 great pyramids are made to perfect calibration, that is even extremely hard for us to do today.

The granite inside is conductive. The outside stones that used to cover the pyramids were of a different type of mineral and rather insulated type. It has been proved by engineers already the thing back then with the Nile locally running close with it water would charge the whole place up, statically.

These local Egyptians made calibrated monolithic granite stones by hitting them with soft copper chisels by hand, lol. No way and moved them about and set them in place with precision too. We are to believe they had this ability and poof, the technology was gone. Naaa, that in itself is unbelievable.

We humans are a lazy bunch of geniuses. We create tools so we can do more with less effort. If we can move around a few tons, 70 tons or several 100 ton stones, why wake up tomorrow and forget how it was done. It was said; many 100s of Egyptians moved the stones. Ok, then it was not just one guy with the knowledge. They all knew it right? But in fact that was not true. What they did not know and we currently do not know as of today was what ‘other technology’ that was being applied by the aliens helping to move the giant granite stones. The aliens took that piece of technology back with them.

To put it best, if 3000 years ago, I showed up with my computer and my printer and typed and printed out a 1000s document to Egyptians and then packed up my computer and printer and left the documents with the all the Egyptians, they would not know how to make a computer, just because I left behind the paper documents.

Sure, I left them with the ability to read, but that’s where the technology would end.

The Egyptians did have their religion and it was abundant, on the outside of the 3 great pyramids. The aliens could care less of it. But they used it in keeping the locals happy.

@ ALH " no concept of the wheel apparently"
....chariot....

@Drozzy
" could be there one minute, and gone the next by the time we receive a clue to their existence"
light won't speed up it will just be billions of yrs late, the evetns we see in the stars happened when dinosours walked the earth

Oh, if you make one group on Earth really advance and forget the other cultures, then you change all the Earth unfairly. This is why we have much the same technology of pyramids, monolithic stones, calendars, star charts, language, math, and writing all over the earth. Those aliens were fair in how they influence the Earth as a whole. All the other oddness around that technology was just our local customs and religions being applied to it too.

1) The Unfinished Obelisk, Aswan, Egypt. - Measures 120-feet (42m) and would have weighed over 1,168 tons when complete.

Ref: (Sci. Amer. Dec. 1977. No. 36). - Estimated @ 1200 tons

This incredible stone is more than twice the size of any known obelisk ever raised. Quarrymen apparently abandoned the obelisk when natural fractures appeared in its sides. However, the stone, still attached to bedrock, gives important clues to how the ancients quarried granite. Much of the red granite used for ancient temples and colossi came from quarries in the Aswan area (500 miles south of Cairo). The Unfinished Obelisk still lies where a crack was discovered as it was being hewn from the rock. Possibly intended as a companion to the Lateran Obelisk (see below), originally at Karnak, now in Rome.

A few wheels, logs, ropes and several 1000s locals could never move a stone like this.

Why even attempt such a project in the first place?

Unless you knew in advance you could move it.

Where did the 'other techology' go?

Humans have only lit cities for what? A hundred years? And a thousand years from now will humans still have cities that are lit? Ten thousand? A million?

We need to focus on things that would last for a hundred million years or more, the chances of the first alien life found being within a millenium technologically of us is virtually nil.

With all our technology and satellite dishes pointing to the stars and our present day scientist that say it is so likely to find intelligent life in the cosmos, we cannot believe we were visited by aliens 3000, 5000 or more years ago?

Research just one thing; “How to carve precisely one 1200 ton stone, convince a bunch of people to do it with you and believe it can be done, and moved it to another great location with several thousand old technology.

Research our ability to do it with current technology. How would find a group of people today to do this project?

Before this kind of project could even begin, you must possess the ability to do it. You must have the confidence of that ability.

We have the Hubble Telescope. Yes, the aliens that have the technology to cross the vastness of space, also in the Orion belt have the technology to see 3 statically glowing pyramids in the darkness of Earth 3000 years ago. It is not unreasonable.

speedoflight,
If the Dark Aliens are need for darkness, they will take and horde all the dark matter in the cosmos. Have you read how much dark matter there is in the cosmos?
GEEZ! MAN! We have to go war now!
Gurrr!

PeacedOut,
Your right! Those aliens maybe not see or not even looking at all the lighted stuff in the COSMOS.

Dark matter is believed to constitute 83% of the matter in the universe.

Why take a crumb, when there is so much cake!

They want the dark matter!
It’s WAR I SAY WAR! Gurrr!

Of course, how do we defend something we cannot find or see yet? I get back to you.

@Aldron's Last Hope: "according to main line Egyptologists. The Great Pyramid was constructed in 20 years. However if you take into account the pyramid is built out of megalithic stones weighing 3 – 70 tons, you would see that this is impossible. If a stone was put in place every 5 minutes it would have taken over 100 years."

Just did the math with this handy thing called a calculator, and a quick google search. 2.3 million stones, at 5 minutes per stone yields:

2,300,000 * 5 = 11,500,000 minutes.

11,500,000 / 60 = 191,666.667 hours

191,166.667 / 24 = 7,986.112 days

7,986.112 / 365 = 21.88 years.

So if stones were placed every five minutes, then it could be accomplished within a ~20 year time frame.

That aside though, it's still astounding the amount of work that was done to create the pyramids.

@Ianredneck, according to main line Egyptologists, the WHEEL, was introduced to Egypt about 1600 B.C (3600 years ago) through foreign invaders in the form of chariots. The Pyramids are given a build date of about 2560 B.C (4,500 years ago) You can find this info in any main line book about ancient Egypt or even Wikipedia.

So again, are we to believe that the culture that made the pyramids had no concept of the wheel??

@GeeWillikers, there is no way that the Pyramids were built the way described in textbooks, it’s just impossible. That being said I don’t believe it was built by Aliens either. I think that Ancient humans (10,000 B.C ) were far more advanced than we can imagine. They built the pyramids with knowledge we have yet to discover.

Some quick facts about the pyramids,

The 4 points match the 4 cardinal points within 1 minute of arc
The base of the pyramid is 13 acres yet the most it deviates from one corner to the next is ¾ inch (over thousands of years)…this is more precise than anything we can do today.
The ratio for height to width is exactly pi 3.14

There are so many things encoded in the pyramid, from pi, to the golden ratio, to the actual size of the earth in relation to the sun and the moon, and we are to believe these people had no concept of the wheel??

The pyramid and the Sphinx shows water damage on its sides. Last time the Sahara desert had that climate was 12,000 years ago. Geologists have proven that the Sphinx has sustained water damage sometime in the past that is consistent with heavy rain.

Egyptologists have it all wrong and are spreading lies.

Here is a useful read link:

http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/author/hart/controversy.html

The great pyramid, a radio beacon to the stars!

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/godsnewmillemnium/godsnewmillemnium09.htm

Can a Starfish understand the language of an Earthworm ?
Can the Earthworm defend against a Blue-Jay ?
Although we know of the Magnetic Spectrum , only a tiny fraction of it is familiar or detected by the " Humans".
Homo-Sapiens-Sapiens were "Made" to serve Visitors from the etheric 250.000 solar years ago.A stone , granite or limestone or other , when subjected to electromagnetic radiation will align it's molecules linearly to negate earths "Gravity" ( a noun we use but don't understand)and levitate to position desired and then rendered neutral to weigh in place-spot-location.Stone was "Cut" with a ( Matter Disintegrating Beam ) removing material that connects it to the surrounding material, on the sub atomic level. You might name it a sub-atomic-dis-integrator. Converts Matter to Antimatter and "Vacuums" it out to another dimension,(string theory.) Example : Nazca Plains top of flat mountain air field.Astroalcher.

Aldrons Last Hope,

In radio transmission, it is the pure and perfection you make the radio signal which is opposite to the natural electromagnet radio signal noise in the back ground that makes you easily and clearly signal to be heard.

How precise again are the pyramids you say?

You wrote: “...The 4 points match the 4 cardinal points within 1 minute of arc. The base of the pyramid is 13 acres yet the most it deviates from one corner to the next is ¾ inch (over thousands of years)this is more precise than anything we can do today...”

If a person wanted to create a natural radio signal to broadcast across the vastness of space, that radio single must contrast to the natural radio signal noise enviroment. It is an absolute must to be precise! Being precise is one method to force it to be notice as well as the power of the signal.

Aldron, not wanting to start a fight, but at the beginning of your last post you agreed with Egyptologists, but in your final sentence you said that they were spreading lies and were wrong.?

@Fallacy, cal-cu-later you say hmmmmm?? Okay I admit I miscalculated by dividing the 12.5 million by 20 instead of 60
But let's change that from 5 mins to 25 mins a stone.

That's 119 years.

Now consider that a 2.5 ton blocks of limestone would have to be quarried, transported miles to the construction site, then placed with perfect precision all in 25 mins?

That is not only impossible but it is absurd to take this as literal fact. This would be impossible with today's technology never mind 5 thousand years ago.

So thanks for pointing out my math, but I ask you do you really believe this could be accomplished in 20 years, or even 100 years using these archaic methods?

@GeeWillikers I'm not sure what they built the pyramids, for sure it wasn't a tomb. That a is totally fabricated lie. Whomever built it was human, maybe thy were trying to communicate with aliens.

@Astroalcher, I think they used frequencies to levitate the stones, like corral castle.

Of all the ancient astronaut theories, "aliens built the pyramids" has to be among the weakest. Surely there are far more ancient and mysterious megalithic structures to wonder about, we've got the pyramids mostly figured out.

The mathematical properties of the pyramids and their relationship to celestial bodies are neither impossible nor mysterious. The ancient Egyptians were expert mathematicians and astronomers, well aware of things like pi, the golden ratio, heliocentrism, even the precise circumference of the planet. They closely observed the movement of the stars and it was a big part of their culture.

The man-power and knowledge of physics required for moving the stones is neither impossible nor mysterious. They had hundreds of years and tens of thousands of slaves to complete the pyramids. There are quite a few sound theories on how they managed this, all of which are supported with sound math.

The apparent water damage is not mysterious; they are inside the Nile's ancient flood plain. Other explanations include the use of artificial waterways to aid in moving the stones. Extensive excavation and the carbon dating of recovered materials from these sites confirms the relative time frame in which they were constructed, who they were constructed by, and reveals no evidence of advanced tools or techniques.

The only thing about their construction that we can not completely account for is the exact method used for cutting the granite; however, a diamond-tipped chisel seems the obvious solution. More obvious than aliens anyway.

Aldrons Last Hope,
For middle ground, I think we are blending in ideas. Fact, I was not there the day of pyramid building school open. So I am just going my current gut feeling today, of what I know.

We agree they were build to communicate to some else far far away.

I did say the Egyptians built them earlier. I just also said they had help and when the help left, so went the good ideas and tools. Yes, I called them aliens. We really do not know who the help was.

Of course in USA, a lot of illegal aliens are used as help, but in fact they are human too. Case in point, I was not there when the pyramids were built. Still the guy with the good ideas left at a later point or the good ideas would have continued. The local society could not carry on.

So we have ancient attempt as communication with an alien world.

Why? Why even try in the first place and why go to all this effort? Unless you knew you had someone was there to listen and you knew your radio had a good chance of working!

@daneheggenes I'm not agreeing with them. I'm just stating what the main line accepted knowledge is and how it contradicts itself. For instance they say the Egyptians built the pyramids whilst having no concept of the wheel. They give a precise build date for the pyramid, however it was impossible to build it in 20 years using the copper tool and sled method. And then there is the the water erosion.....

@salt...so you also disagree with main line archeology. You said "they had hundreds of years"...but archeology teaches us they were built in 20 years.

Listen to the logistics... 2.5 million stones ranging from 2 tons to 70 tons...each methodically placed with accuracy better than anything we can do today...how is this accomplished with copper tools?

Also you mention water erosion from the Nile. The erosion I was eluding too is from rain. Not sand, not flooding. The nile did not flood to the point where the sphinx was submerged. Rain leaves a specific type of erosion, that is like a finger print to a geologist.

Also no Egyptologist will tell you that the Egyptians knew advanced mathematics, such as pi or the golden ratio or astronomy for that matter. This is all alternative thories..but over the years they have become more accepted as you can see from any documentary on the pyramids.

@GeeWillikers I realize that people think how "can could ancient man build such a structure" Then they look at the common explanation and it makes no logical sense. But I think we have to rethink what our perceptions of ancient man are.

Aldrons Last Hope,
I can see your point; the earth is roughly 4.1, 4.2 billion years old. Its a lot of time. How long is human civilization, well we get surprised all the time of when humans were walking and making tools. With that said, yes human civilization could be a lot older and maybe we had many black plagues or disasters of the past. Perhaps we had an old human civilization that was extremely smart. I can go with that.

I have worked with electronics, programming and much more for 27 years. I have been lucky to have a broad experience of working around a lot of other super smart people. I really can see those pyramids being a radio and I am left with why make a radio and who are you talking to you? Why the expectation you will get an answer? Why did this suddenly ability to build these wonderful exceptional monolithic technology objects just end? Why leave us pointers to certain stars?

Somebody gave the humans a reason to focus and expect an answer?

Hey, I guess I am done. You can not give me a confirmation approval, I understand that. I can not give it to myself. I am done for this article. I think I have voice my thoughts clear. Thanks. ;)

@Aldrons Last Hope

I don't know where you get this idea that archaeologists generally agree the pyramids were built in 20 years. This is not the scientific consensus. Carbon dating objects found in the buried villages surrounding them suggests that it took a great deal longer. There is other evidence as well, though it's not as compelling.

You also assert that we are not even capable today of constructing something out of stone with such geometric precision. Who gave you this idea? There were a great many free-standing stone structures built in the middle ages with equal or greater precision and no more advanced tools - and you don't even think we can do it in the 21st century? I suggest you read up on modern masonry techniques.

If you had mentioned before that the erosion came specifically from rain, I would have mentioned that Egypt has two monsoon seasons per year, and it has been that way since antiquity.

And finally, as for your assertion that the Egyptians did not know geometry and algebra, well that is just ridiculous on its face. That statement alone makes me seriously doubt your authority on ancient Egypt.

FYI: Erich von Däniken is not an Egyptologist, nor is Giorgio Tsoukalos.

Conviction is beautiful. Can you supply some links, facts, more beyond that love. I love to follow you, but I am left in the obis! Do you have a thing for him?

"....You also assert that we are not even capable today of constructing something out of stone with such geometric precision. Who gave you this idea?..." you kind of emotional there. What's up with that. Where you there?

@GeeWillikers

We don't build things out of stone anymore because we created superior materials and techniques, not because we lost the technology to do so.

It is no coincidence that the pyramids are aligned with particularly bright stars, but it's no mystery either. The Egyptians were obsessed with astronomy, methodically observing and mapping the heavens for thousands of years. Why this leap in logic to extra-terrestrial influence? Let's at least exhaust all the more obvious explanations first.

we

Sure, exhaust all you want and keep the given obvious available too love. This we we we is so interesting. Thanks.

I would adore to share a we moment with we. Tho, I trust zip from the blog and want not, so we have an own wall. Though you little word game was fun, too.

GeeWillikers, I'm not exactly sure how to respond to the confusing things you say, but if you have any arguments to support your position that do not involve logical fallacies and unfounded assumptions, I would love to hear them. If you prefer to stick to the ad-hominem sarcasm, though, then we are done here.

I soul wish I had the use of you language skills. I am just a poor writer. Your original focus was Aldrons Last Hope, remember. Your focus was not me. Call your boyfriend and play. You have no reason to reply to me.

Oh, I really wish I had more to offer to this article. I do not. So I am honest.

Still...

salt

lol, a beautiful distraction from the points I made.

Ok then. Still it does not matter, 99.9% of the public is blind anyway and to lazy to find fact in life on there on. They just choose to Google it and except the first page results.

I adore a good walk about, don’t you?

GeeWillikers

Why would I want to distract anyone from your points? I never expressed any disbelief at the possibility of ancient alien contact, in fact I believe it's quite plausible.

What I did was call attention to the inaccuracies of the popular theory that aliens must have helped build the pyramids because man was not capable of such a feat on his own. This may have held water 30-40 years ago but archaeology has come a long way since then.

The various facts I stated in support of my argument were un-referenced because they are COMMON KNOWLEDGE (i.e. it rains in Egypt, ancient Egyptians knew math, etc). These statements were not the result of casual internet research, feel free to consult an encyclopedia (or an actual expert such an archaeologist or professor) to confirm.

I attacked the argument, not the arguer. Yet you say I am "blind" and "too lazy to find fact in life"? You are the only one throwing around veiled insults in place of real arguments(I disagree with this guy so he must be my boyfriend? Real mature). Is this because you can't support your position with reasoned logic and hard evidence?

And yes, I love a good walkabout. I love to gaze at the night sky and be overwhelmed by the humbling sight of my own staggering insignificance. Just like you, I believe strongly in life beyond our tiny rock. To believe otherwise would be stupendously illogical.

Also, I find it hilarious that an ancient astronaut theorist is accusing me of blindly accepting whatever I read on the internet because I happen to think the pyramids were built by human beings. Har-bloody-har.

@salt you said "I don't know where you get this idea that archaeologists generally agree the pyramids were built in 20 years"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza

Any book you read on the Great Pyramid will tell you it was built in 20 years. Where are you you getting your info from?

There is no other medieval structure that rival the great pyramid. The Pyramid has more stone in it than all of the cathedrals in Europe from the time of Christ to present day combined. 6.5 million tons. The weight of both WTC was 1.0 million tons. I repeat we still haven't built anything as massive as the Pyramids. Do you understand to build something that massive and not even deviate an inch from center is almost impossible. Theoretically it is possible with today's laser measuring / leveling technologies, however in practice it's impossible to place every brick, every steel beam that perfectly. The to put the whole thin on the 4 cardinal points with within 3 degrees of arc on either side!! Show me a building that does the same thing if you can.

You said

"If you had mentioned before that the erosion came specifically from rain, I would have mentioned that Egypt has two monsoon seasons per year, and it has been that way since antiquity."

Okay I had to laugh at this. Egypt is a big country. The Pyramids are located on the GIZA PLATEAU which is a desert climate. They get NO rain for most of the year. And even in the winter they do not even average 1inch of rain per month. Look that up. You are basically saying it rains in the Mojave desert because it rains in America..LOL They say the Pyramids are 5,000 years old. The Giza Plateau has been desert for the last 5,000 years. Where did the weathering come from?? Obviously the Great Pyramid was built at a time when there was more of a temperate climate (hint 10,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age)

Lastly I'm not saying that I don't think they didn't have advanced mathematics back then because obviously they did. I'm saying if you read main line archeology they deny this fact, Think about it they had all of this advanced mathematics but they didn't have the wheel?? Only had copper tools?? Something doesn't add up there.

Okay really Lastly, please tell me how long you think it takes to carve a 35 ton piece of granite with copper tools (diamond tip or whatever), then float it up the river 934 km, then to cut it so perfectly, when they fit together not even a razor can fit in the groves. Then place it in the pyramid? Now multiply that by 1 million. Remember the Great Pyramid is credited to the 4th dynasty which didn't even last 200 years. Do some research before you answer me, your straw man tactics and wrong information on Egyptian history, climate, construction etc. is laughable.

While I see no source for that particular bit on wikipedia, I'm sure that if it is indeed accurate, then archaeologists have a good reason on which to base that timetable, and I'm sure they don't need to invoke extra-terrestrial technology to explain it.

Regardless of the amount of stone they contain, medieval structures such as cathedrals are significantly more complex in their architecture than a pyramid. I mentioned this in response to that other guy's comment that our architectural capability as a species disappeared once the aliens left and that's why we don't build stone structures anymore.

Are there gaps in our understanding of ancient history? Yes. But simply pointing out those gaps in our knowledge does not constitute an argument for alien intervention. None of your arguments go farther than "we can't entirely explain this, so probably it was aliens" and I am the straw man? Right....

@salt, you see no source?? Read any book on the Great Pyramid, that is accepted common knowledge that it was built in 20 years. And you say "I'm sure they have a good reason." Is that the best you could come up with?..LOL..the reason the 20 year period was picked is because it fits nicely into the reign of Kufu. No other evidence except supposed "graffiti" written in chalk that was suposedly found in the kings chamber. If you ever read a book on Ancient Egypt you would know that.

Are you kidding? What Cathedral is located as precisely as the Pyramid, what Cathedral contains the golden ratio, pi, and complex geometry of the pyramids? What are you talking about? Do you at least admit that the pyramid is still the most massive building ever built?

If you took the time to actually read the comments you are replying to, you would see that I am not arguing the alien theory, I was just saying what main line archeology does not explain how the pyramids were built, in fact it defies logic and common sense. But you like a sheep is content to say "they have their reasons"

You said "FYI: Erich von Däniken is not an Egyptologist, nor is Giorgio Tsoukalos."

I am not talking about their work and I never mentioned them, so you mentioning them then attempting to discredit them is a straw man argument. Make sense?

And do you want to recant the Giza Plateau gets monsoons statement??

The seeker of knowledge who seeks to reach beyond the stars to go where no mans gone before to see things no man has seen and bring these experiences back for the whole world to hear and see.

OK hmmm the best to describe this is by starting from the beginning the pyramids are yes monolithic in weight and size but to say that humans are incapable of producing these thing's is bias in the fact that Egypt wasn't the only ones that had the same ideas if you look back at many of the other cultures of that time period many had already begun to use astronomical signs as a means to create a message not to aliens but to other cultures and to their people for example it is a fact that Aztecs built their Aztec pyramids matching astrological signs it was both in part because of their religion and for power in fact what many don't know is the pyramids of Giza the three great pyramids where not the only monolithic pyramids built in fact their is the pyramid of the sun and the moon in Mexico and guess what the have the same base dimensions as Egypt pyramids not as tall but same exact width some would say well isn't this proof that aliens built the pyramids no what it means is they both came to the same conclusion if you are building something that will be tall with a hollow center you need to have a certain size base that is why the are aligned so well no because aliens but simply the new from previous experience that if something is not equal in width and then the corners of their pyramids would not align meaning they would collapse under their own weight then you may say well why face them toward a galaxy well back then the stars where for them like are phones are for us they played a crucial role in their lives telling them seasons helped them travel the ocean and to most cultures symbolized a higher power (GOD) so their is plenty of reasons to build them not only that to Egyptians you needed a body to go to the afterlife or to return if you lost your body then you technically did not exist no more so to them or more for the pharaohs witch symbolized the rising and and falling of the sun the ultimate in godlessness and royalty a way of immortality not only showing their awesome power and riches but their dominance over death itself same goes for the Aztecs religion played a roll in their creation they built them all over the pyramids of the sun and moon being more advanced then most of the other pyramids Aztecs built and if you think that the pyramids are that impossible to build then click this link below

https://www.google.com/search?q=pumu+punku&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=mH0&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=VcO4TsTGDZHMiQLky8X0BA&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=915&sei=%20WMO4TuDxEKWoiQKbq5HEBA

those are the ruins of an even more ancient civilization these ruins are called puma punku they are made from the second hardest materiel in the world aside from diamonds they way many times more than the pyramids stones they are cut more precisely then anything on those pyramids and the are so well cut they fit like puzzle pieces some so well a razer blade wont even go through the edges of cracks grooves cut so well you can align them with a laser and their perfectly straight meaning pumu punku is more technically puzzling then pyramids all together and my whole point is we are trying to scrape together thousands of years of history who are we to say they were incapable of doing these things they where just as smart as us no different they just didn't have all the fancy so called modern day gadgets. all in all they were innovators and pioneers of their times if i told you almost every home in America would have a computer in it 30 years ago you would have laughed you would never have thought it possible same thing with cellphones if i live back in time say 40 years ago and told everyone we will have a personal phone that they call call anyone with, handheld, that could do the things are phones do today they would have thought i was crazy same thing we may not know how they did it but doesn't mean what they did was impossible thus aliens had to do it just means are understanding of their science and knowledge is a little mixed up are strewn in my logical opinion from reading a great deal of many texts is that the human race of our ancestors lived many many years longer with age comes wisdom and with wisdom comes intellect thus fourth they lived longer means the new more and had longer times to complete things remember are ancestors used to live hundreds of years as we only live 60 to a hundred so i don't don't doubt for a second that are for bearers where incapable in much faith i believe they where as smart or smarter at math at astrology and geology because those where the things they needed back then think after you have read this when was the last times you looked up at the stars and think today we take advantage of all these nifty things that have to today back then all they had was the stars over heads the grounds under their feet and the things that laid around them so to me their where even more brilliant then us they took the raw earth and made mountains great temples and beautiful art that puzzles the modern world today take the coliseum of Rome its Granger hardly can be compared to what we have today but back then that was the technologically advanced structure of its time

remember not everything you read on the web is fact even if from a good website most articles are more speculation then fact and thus evolve and change as our understanding of them becomes more clear so just because we think this today doesn't mean that tomorrow somebody cant find a missing puzzle piece and explain something totally different
i write this because i am a visionary i am TrulyVisionary

Gandhi once said live as if you will die tomorrow and learn as if you'll live forever ..Knowledge is power

@Aldrons Last Hope

Why would I recant? It absolutely did rain quite heavily on the Giza plateau in ancient times, and evidence of this rainfall (including the erosion you mention) has been used to date these structures to as early as 3,000 BC, or as recently as 2500-ish (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sphinx_of_Giza#Water_erosion_debate). This is not very far off from when most Egyptologists place their construction during the 4th Dynasty, but nobody is saying it hasn't rained heavily on Giza in 12,000 years, as you claim.

No, I am not kidding. The algebraic geometry required to construct things like the freestanding arches and domes found in medieval cathedrals (and many much older sites) is significantly more complex than the pyramids. Concepts such as pi and the golden ratio ("sacred geometry") are everywhere in ancient architecture, and are absolutely present in medieval cathedrals, as well as ancient Greek, Roman, Arabic, Indian, and Himalayan architecture (sorry if I missed a few).

This is not to say that the Egyptian pyramids are not incredibly impressive feats of engineering, there is certainly no more massive structure in the world, probably because it would be quite foolish to build something so big out of granite and limestone when much better materials are available. We build things much bigger than pyramids all the time - they're just not as heavy.

As for the pyramid's "precise location", I assume you are referring to the "Orion Correlation Theory" which states the Pyramids at Giza are perfectly aligned with the stars in Orion's belt. This is widely considered to be pseudoarchaeology. The Giza pyramids do roughly approximate the alignment of Orion's belt, but not with much precision.

I do apologize for mixing up your comments with GeeWillikers, I see now that my barb about VonDaniken was misdirected.

Wow, nobody slept last night, lol.

While building the 3 great pyramids and while waiting for help to arrive from Orion Belt, their effect of knowledge they put on earth was spread about fairly. They left their presence everywhere and had time to kill.

Puma Punku oh yea! Those were assisted and built with alien help too. The aliens built and shared a lot of knowledge all across the earth as they waited for someone to rescue them from planet Earth. They had the motivation to build these things, not the humans. Oh and when they left, they took the purpose of building as well.

The 3 great pyramids of Egypt are 3 precision built radios powered by the natural flow of water from the Nile, built with precision radio radiating energy to the stars, 3 lights shining with a reflection of Orion belt.

From Orion, someone has the ability of 1000 years technology, maybe longer. They look to the stars like we look with the Hubble Telescope. If they saw Earth with a reflection of their system of Orion belt, they know it would be someone similar to themselves. Then they ask why are they getting this signal? Then they travel there and investigate.

Yes, I agree, use a light bulp to see and be seen!

@Salt,

Dude, stop wasting your time with ALH and GeeWillikers, obvious trolls are obvious. ALH subscribes to every single conspiracy theory out there and posts the most ridiculous "evidence" in support of the asinine claims. It does not matter how much true, hard, scientific evidence you can provide that would refute his wacky theories because he will never accept it. I'm sure the majority of people reading the responses are laughing at ALH.

Are there strange and unexplained things that exists in regards to the pyramids of Egypt, Aztec, Stonehenge etc? Yes, but to state definitively that the only answer is aliens is purely ridiculous.

See how they move big rocks with modern technology:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/08/arts/design/los-angeles-county-museum-moves-a-340-ton-rock.html?pagewanted=all

Thanks,
-Tony

Damn it AJ you had to go and ruin it! I didn't even get to finish my popcorn.

Barring the unnecessary pyramid deviation, this proposed idea is very logical because it opens the possibility that their might be life out there similar to if not just like us. Keeps us from over looking the obvious stuff (like how much more convenient it would be to launch orbital platforms from a plane rather than a launchpad).

Plus, finding life on another world similar to ours might warm us up and psychologically prepare us for the discovery of beings more bizarre than we are able to conceive.

@Army Juggernaut if you have nothing to contribute, (which you never do) just bud out before I put you in your place. You are such a blind sheep that you don’t realize that millions of people share my views. Wake up and open your eyes, or were you really in the army and are now suffering from Gulf war syndrome??…go take another vaccine before the government cuts your benefits 

@Truly Visionary that link supports my theory that these structures are much older that modern archeology suggests. That 10,000 years ago plus there was an advanced world wide civilization that built monoliths. The pyramids and structures you mentioned in Mexico and especially Peru are aligned with the stars of 10,000 years ago. I am not saying Aliens built them, I’m saying that an advanced civilization built them. Think about it, what are the chances that all of these ancient structures were built with the same techniques, aligned to the same stars yet these cultures were worlds apart??

@salt, I guess that’s why it’s debate, the link you provided also proves my point

“Rainer Stadelmann, former director of the German Archaeological Institute in Cairo, examined the distinct iconography of the nemes (headdress) and the now-detached beard of the Sphinx and concluded that the style is more indicative of the Pharaoh Khufu (2589–2566 BC), builder of the Great Pyramid of Giza and Khafra's father.[14] He supports this by suggesting that Khafra's Causeway was built to conform to a pre-existing structure, which, he concludes, given its location, could only have been the Sphinx.[10]
Colin Reader, an English geologist who independently conducted a more recent survey of the Enclosure, points out that the various quarries on the site have been excavated around the Causeway. Because these quarries are known to have been used by Khufu, Reader concludes that the Causeway (and the temples on either end thereof) must predate Khufu, thereby casting doubt on the conventional Egyptian chronology.[10]
In 2004, Vassil Dobrev of the Institut Français d'Archéologie Orientale in Cairo announced that he had uncovered new evidence that the Great Sphinx may have been the work of the little-known Pharaoh Djedefre (2528–2520 BC), Khafra's half brother and a son of Khufu.[15] Dobrev suggests that Djedefre built the Sphinx in the image of his father Khufu, identifying him with the sun god Ra in order to restore respect for their dynasty. Dobrev also notes, like Stadelmann and others, that the causeway connecting Khafre's pyramid to the temples was built around the Sphinx suggesting it was already in existence at the time.[14]
Frank Domingo, a forensic scientist in the New York City Police Department and an expert forensic anthropologist,[16] used detailed measurements of the Sphinx, forensic drawings and computer imaging to conclude that Khafra, as depicted on extant statuary, was not the model for the Sphinx's face.[17]
Author Robert Temple proposes that the Sphinx was originally a statue of the Jackal-Dog Anubis, the God of the Necropolis, and that its face was recarved in the likeness of a Middle Kingdom Pharaoh, Amenemhet II. Temple bases his identification on the style of the eye make-up and the style of the pleats on the head-dress.[18]
From his investigation of the Enclosure's geology, Schoch concluded that the main type of weathering evident on the Sphinx Enclosure walls could only have been caused by prolonged and extensive rain.[20] According to Schoch, the area has experienced a mean annual rainfall of approximately one inch (2.5 cm) since the Old Kingdom (c. 2686–2134 BC), and since Egypt's last period of significant rainfall ended between the late fourth and early 3rd millennium BC,[21] he dates the Sphinx's construction to the 6th millennium BC or 5th millennium BC.[22””

The average rain fall in the Giza Plateu is 2.5cm or 1 inch….please realize this is very little rain. The 6th Millennium B.C is 8 thousand years ago, 4 thousand years older than what any main line archeologist will tell you. So you have proved my point…thank you.

In terms of the Giza Plataea being a more “savannah” type of environment / climate, consult any geologist and they will tell you 10,000 years ago we were coming out of the last ice age and that was exactly the climate in Giza Plateu.

This is the math I’m talking about…no other structure encompasses so much knowledge. Medieval builder knew about sacred geometry, but the pyramid builders were masters

http://greatpyramidmath.weebly.com/contents.html

this is exactly what I’m talking about, it’s pseudo archeology because they don’t believe the ancients had that kind of knowledge when in fact they did. The Pyramids did line up perfectly with the Orion constellation, but that was 10,000 years ago when it was first built.

@Tony_Who This is what I got from your link

“How do you do it? The rock has already been raised off the ground by hydraulic lifts and put in a cradle; steel trusses were built around the cradle, all part of a modular tractor with 22 axles, each with its own set of brakes, and 196 wheels. It will weigh 1,210,900 pounds, including the rock. “That’s a lot,” Mr. Albrecht said. “But the weight per axle should be about 349,950 pounds. That’s not so bad. You’ll get more on some of these rock trips coming out of this quarry every day. We’re not worried.”
So what is your point, the Egyptians had hydraulic lifts, steel trusses, gas powered vehicles? The Pyramids were built using copper tools and sleds according to archeologists. Your link tells us how to move big rocks in 2011, not how they did it 3,000 B.C and your link certainly does not show how they did it so quickly.

@Fallacy you didn’t answer my question, and I suspect it’s because you do not have an answer. Try to wrap your mind around 2.5 million blocks of stone weighing in at 3 – 70 tons. And tell me how they did it in 20 years, or just admit the obvious….the pyramid couldn’t be built in 20 years. How did they place those stones at 5 mins per block, or even 25 mins a block.

@ALH:

"Fallacy you didn’t answer my question, and I suspect it’s because you do not have an answer."

Do I need an answer? I'm not the one who proposed that the pyramids were built to exacting specifications or within a certain time frame. I do believe there are a few things you're not answering from salt's questions though ;)

"but I ask you do you really believe this could be accomplished in 20 years, or even 100 years using these archaic methods?"

Archaic methods? Which methods. Please be specific.

A few interesting things:

It's easier to push an object on desert sand than it is to do so on soil.

Even if ancient Egyptians hadn't invented a wheel, it is well possible that the huge stone blocks could be rolled distances by being placed on top of logs. Essentially wheels, just more rudimentary.

Perhaps the ancient Egyptians knew that by increasing the surface area of whatever mechanism they used to move the stones would decrease the pressure across the entire thing, making it less likely to "dig in" and easier to push.

As well as the specifics on the "archaic methods" you neglected to specify, you also neglect to specify approximately how many workers were available.

From what I searched, the population seems to fall around 2.5 million (+/- 500,000). Now we do know that the flood plains of the Nile are very very fertile, so I doubt that all 2.5 million people were dedicated to agricultural pursuits. Determining worthwhile labor breakdown of ancient Egyptian civilization is incredibly difficult, but I think as a conservative estimate there may have been quite a lot of labor available for the construction of the pyramid. Considering it took roughly 3,000 workers one year and 45 days to build the empire state building, I'd think building the pyramids (much simpler construction, less wiring and plumbing to run and what have you) is possible with a large labor force. Is it possible to do within twenty years? Yes, with innovation and a large work force I think it is. Do I personally believe it was done in 20 years? I'm not decided. I don't know the specifics of how it was done, so I can't make a properly educated guess. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say thirty years, with a margin of error of ten years in either direction.

Oh and ALH, if you want unbridled speculation go ahead and search for information on how the Maya or the Aztecs built their pyramids. Finding construction theories for those ancient world monuments seems to be very difficult.

@Fallacy

The hyperactive nature of the human psyche allows the mind to venture into the wild realms of fantasy and fiction for the sole purpose of escaping an undesirable reality. The level of displeasure the individual has with one's own reality determines the magnitude, duration, and frequency of the mind's deviation into fantasy.

Such illusions of the mind are generated from stories of legend, myth, and fantasy. These things give people a basis of theory that motivates academic pursuit (such as the possibility of life on other worlds). Some people's illusions are vindicated as we come towards a place of greater understanding that points to the evidence of these once wild theories. Others do not meet such vindication and remain the exploits of delusions of grandeur because of a lack of supporting evidence or evidence that contradicts such claims.

There will always be people who prescibe to such fallacies (no pun intended) because it motivates them to do something, or just live positively in some kind of way (even if it's the contradictory pseudo pessimism conspiracy theorist way). Such fallacies also give people hope in an existence they feel is too cumbersome or insignificant to overcome. Rather than psychologically succumb to the depression and despair of an existence that does not allow someone to draw attention towards their center, they create a reality that suits them best. Not everyone does this sort of thing, but I imagine a great deal of people do. Just count the number of people that go through life with unfulfilled ambitions and a status deplorable to them. Anyone displeased with reality is willing to escape it however they can, by any means necessary. How bizarre the methods are depends on the individual and the level of contempt for their own reality.

Hey seriously I did write what I believed and tried to be supportive. Sure, you could of read it as more entertainment and nonsensical. Or maybe you found some of comments interesting and decided to search and get your facts for yourself. It’s all good. I really do not care if you approve of ideas. It's not I am the only person ever to have these ideas about the 3 great pyramids, monolithic structures. But it was a fun ride of conversation.

And if you invite a neighbor to come over for dinner some night, leave a light on! And if your light unique in color and special, tell your friend, it will make that much easier to find your house.

See ya. ;)

ROFLMAO! Put me in my place trololololol! U MAD BRO?

@Pheonix1012: Well said, and why not mean the pun? I took the alias fully well knowing the irony of attempting to adhere to logic when discussing the topics at hand. Always a slight form of amusement for myself. In the mean time I feel like a fallacy check list might be in order, see if we can find any that have been missed so far in the discussion. :)

After seeing how much effort it takes to move big things with modern equipment, it is hard to imagine it done with primitive equipment.

Thanks,
-Tony

@Tony_Who

If you have enough slaves and peasants, the right set of academic products for execution, and the influence of the impending wrath or good graces of one of many gods/goddesses, you can move mountains.

Plus, sedientary lifestyles generating a lack of physical fitness and obesity were not common traits in human beings of the ancient world. The comforts of technological advancement continues to physiologically shape us into a form that is not efficient for the type of manual labor performed by people before the advent of certain types of technology.

phenoix1012,

So modern day man is unmotivated, a nutritional deficient couch potato lazy sloth, incompetent and this is why current society has not a clue or the ability to make another 3 great pyramids. I just want to be sure, I understand you correctly. Is this what you mean?

But you do believe if we get out the whips and start smacking people around we can move mountains and inspire them with fables and fairy tells they be happy to comply!

I just want to be sure I understand your point sir.
...........................

Pardon me, if i do not agree.

@Fallacy by archaic methods I mean going to a cliff face and carving out a 10 ton piece of granite with a copper blade, then using ropes, sleds and raw man power to move them into place.

Fallacy, you are comparing apples to oranges. That is like me saying I can get to England in 8 hrs, so the Ancient Egyptians could make it there in 8 days. Who cares how long it took to build the Empire state building?? The empire state building is 365 000 tons…so it doesn’t even compare to the pyramid. The ESB was built using, cranes, trucks, welders, electricity and 1000’s of other convenience’s that ANCIENT EGYPTIANS did not have. Also it was not constructed the same, it’s much more difficult to place 20 ton blocks with precision that it is to weld a steel skeleton. So not buying that.

It doesn’t matter how many people built the pyramids. Because once all the “dirty work” was done, cutting and dragging the stones. The stones still had to re-cut on site for the perfect fit we see and there still would only be a few people on site that actually knew how to place the stones perfectly. But for arguments sake let’s say 200,000 people.

Thanks for the tip on the Aztecs & Mayans; I’ve actually visited Mayan Pyramids. And again, they were built over 10,000 years ago around the same time as the Pyramids probably by the same civilization. Remember when Cortez asked the Mayans and Aztecs who built their Pyramids they said their Gods….they were built before the Aztecs and Mayans, “squatted” on them.

@Tony_Who thanks for clearing that up :-)And yeah, back then they didn't have PS3 so they were able to lifet 1 ton each DUHHH LOL

@Army…not mad, so did you take your vaccine? And I highly doubt you were rolling on the floor laughing, more likely cowering in a corner crying. CCC

@Phoenix, What you said was well worded, but it lacked substance. All you are basically doing is attacking the poster’s mind set instead of focusing on the points that were brought up. You can’t answer the tough questions, so like a sheep you do what the media has trained you to do. SHM…. In your wordy way, all you are saying is that “some people” are dissatisfied with their lives so they make up conspiracy theories. That dismissive attitude will keep you from getting to know people and ideas and you will be trapped in a little lonely box for the rest of your life. It’s not the first time someone has attacked my personal life on here. Because you can’t understand, you are afraid so you attack, a very SIMPLE and immature mindset indeed. I won’t defend my personal life, because I’ve learned I just come off as arrogant when I talk about my career, house, cars, family and friends. I don’t ever say “oh you think like this because you came from a sheltered middle class home, or you are poor so what you say doesn’t matter.” You can’t judge someone’s status from their ideas. That is fallacy. Yes you have proven that you have a good vocabulary, but that’ sit, you lack understanding and the ability to think outside the box.

But I will say there are MANY educated, professionals that think like me. Main stream history has too many unanswered questions. And because we question it we are dissatisfied?? I weep for this generation.

No one here can tell me how the Pyramids were built. I can’t answer it either, but at least I can admit I don’t know unlike bull headed, blind sheep that just need to know there IS an answer so they can go along, going along with everyone else. And I would more believe that Aliens built them (even though I don’t) than accept the lies that are taught about them.

Copper tools, rope, logs and man power and viola the Pyramids….lol yeah right.

Lights to see and be seen!
That has been going on, what forever!

The real issue is that any light bearing civilisation found, assuming we are lucky and find one clearly. It is VERY VERY likely the civilisation is long but dead or moved on! But we could get amazingly lucky and find one within 100 light years of us, anything beyond that well.. They would be either gone or advanced enough to know we are nothing but trouble and stay away, LOL

@ALH: So you know for fact then that the pyramids were built that way?

By the way, the comparison with the Empire State Building is to show that it's possible to build a much more complex structure in a short time period, with (for argument's sake) 0.000000005% of the Egyptian work force available to the builders of the pyramids. The pyramids really aren't that complex. The "precise" building of the pyramids still required mortar to be built, whereas those Mayan and Aztec stone structures were often built without mortar because the stones were so well cut they didn't need a construction adhesive.

All that aside, it must have been wonderful to stand on those ancient structures.

@ALH: Sorry, I was a bit tired when I wrote the above comment. I've had a bit of coffee, so I'll try again.

If the Egyptians were building the pyramids in the way you hypothesized, and had a labor force of 200,000 individuals, I can still see this happening within my original estimated time frame, of 30 years with a 10 year margin of error in either direction.

@Fallacy, coffee is must!!

I don’t know how the pyramids built, and I can’t say it’s absolute fact because there are no records of how it was built. What I’m saying is that is the way it is described in history books; the rope and copper method is incorrect. I’m taking the method that all Egyptologists agree on and dissecting it and I’ve found that it is impossible. They had some kind of technology that rendered the megalithic stones weightless. There is a block in the king’s Chamber that is estimated at 70 tons. In a space that 12 people can barley fit. That is still a mystery to this day. They can’t figure how it was done. And the scaffolding and ramps used to build the pyramids, would have been a greater undertaking that than the pyramids themselves..so again, makes no sense.

Also I pulled the number of 200,000 out of the air. I looked it up and most agree on a workforce of 25,000

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/pyramid_builders_01.shtml

And again I’m sticking to my guns, that the great pyramid was built over 10,000 years ago. There is weathering caused by rain on the Sphinx. Salt was mistaken in his assessment of the climate of the Giza Plateau (it is a dessert) and it was a savanha 10,000 years ago when the pyramid was was built.

Yes I say precise because no stone deviates for more than 1/50th of an inch, I can guarantee you the Empire State building does not have that kind of precision. The Pyramid all in all is more complex than the Empire state building. The math alone is mind boggling. if you have time check out the link

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_2.htm

I admit the Myan and Aztec pyramids are amazing. But not on the scale of the Pyramid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichen_Itza

I’ve stood on this Pyramid, something that can’t be done anymore because they banned it a few years ago. It is an amazing feeling and something that anyone who is interested in archeology should do. The surrounding site is also quite awesome. I also plan to visit the great pyramid one day, friends have told me it is a life changing experience.

The most amazing thing is the Nazca lines….again they are impossible to re-produce, yet there they are, and science just ignores them. They were made thousands of years ago, yet they were only discovered when man discovered flight….ancients weren’t so simple huh?

@ wannabe pseudo-psychobabble specialists. I can assure you I’m not having “delusions of grandeur” LOL. Have you ever thought you are the one dissatisfied with your life?, coming on line and nit picking at grammar? You are obviously over compensating for being a virgin…LOL j/k I won’t go there, just showing you how much of a fallacy you are.

….these are facts that are staring at everyone but everyone just chooses to ignore and go along with the sheep. But I promise you history books will be re-written, the origins of civilization run much deeper than most realize. Of course main stream historians have a vested interest in civilization @ 5000 years old, when in fact it’s at least double that.

@GeeWillikers

I'm saying because of the hard work put forth by our ancestors, we have developed a measure of sophistication that does not require back breaking slave labor to achieve feats that are more note worthy than the simply engineering that goes into building a pyramid (yes, even a large one).

We have lived in this luxury for so long that we have forgot of what people are capable. So we say there is no way people could build great structures without higher intervention (god or aliens). For you to imply that people are unmotivated, malnutritioned, incompetent, sloths is merely an opinionated point-of-view translation. My implication is that people are not motivated to work as hard anymore, simply because we have many ammenities that allow us to not work so hard while progress and societal evolutions exponential trends continue to move us forward at a rate far faster than people of the ancient world.

@ALH

Someone needs a time out. Don't start talking about how much better you think you have it than me or anyone else. You'll start coming off less like a conspiracy theoretical nutjob and more like a commercialize hip hop artists; then again you might start making more sense.

My speech did not indicate any implications I was talking about you specifically as many others post the same sentiments as you. But, if you feel it necessary to stroke your ego then, it's all you dude.

You want to know how the Egyptians commanded the construction of the Great Pyramids? Academic knowledge and the command of a work force that spread across several societies and people that fell under the influence of the once (then) great Egyptian Empire. It's not hard to believe that people could have done something like that at that time. No one just has faith in human capability anymore. Or they don't believe people of African descent could have been responsible for such products of engineering (even though we've stated it's a pyramid, and not a more complex structure). No one ever talks about aliens helping to build the Colosseum, and that structure is very impressive.

If you feel the need to escape into a fantasy that allows you to have something meaningful to talk about or make you the center of attention it's obvious you're dealing with some social issues common to an introvert lacking human contact.

Regardless of how many friends you got I probably have more than you because I get out more, and I've ###### more broads than you probably ever will, especially on account of the fact that I'm probably three quarters to half your age. But I digress from that I don't do dick measuring contest. It's always a wrap.

I suggest that you take a deep breath and count to ten before you post such an atrocious rant. Attacking me by thinking I'm displeased with my life when I'm sitting up #### deep in ##### to the likes you'll never experience! That's why people say you're out of touch of reality! You go to verbal insults when someone more level headed than you shows you up.

I'm getting off the soap box because being on this computer is boring. You go ahead and place your inadequacies on me. I'll go place myself waist deep in a delicious redhead.

Cheers, Muthaf**ka!

@ALH: Do you have any evidence to support your assertion that the Egyptians had technology which "rendered the stones weightless"?

I think you also may want to differentiate between complexity and precision. The Empire State Building is a vastly more complex structure. After all it has running plumbing, internet, electrical outlets, filtered multi-zone climate control, phone lines, lighting, windows, elevators, tower-sway counter-measures, staircases, emergency lighting, alarms, sprinkler systems, various kinds of atmospheric detectors (smoke, CO), and the list goes on.

When it comes to the precision of the construction of the ESB that factor is a bit more difficult to determine. Unfortunately precision in modern construction isn't a much published factor, however it is there and must be there for the structure to support it's own weight on top of whatever physical effects are placed on the building by environmental affects.

Thinking further, there is most certainly another aspect of precision in construction that should be considered, and that is tolerances. I'm sure you know that modern engineering and design often includes tolerances to allow for thermal expansion. Limestone offers a much lower coefficient of thermal expansion, meaning it allows for much smaller tolerances in construction than modern construction materials. I wish it were possible for us to get a modern day reading of precision of the pyramids, but most of my quick searching has turned up that most of the measures of precision are quoted from (archaeologist?) W.M. Flinders Petrie in 1883. Apparently Mark Lehner has taken more modern measurements, and these are nicely contained in a book which one would need to purchase (The Complete Pyramids: Solving the Ancient Mysteries). I'm unsure as to whether or not the measurements are available online as searching either brings up amazon/bookstores or some website which began referencing "kemi", of which I could not find a definition or explanation of what "kemi" is or means in the terms of the website from an outside source.

I may have started droning. Well, that aside, despite the precision involved in the construction, I haven't seen any information which would make me consider that the construction itself was perfect or exacting. Precise? Yes. Impossible? No.

As for the world mysteries site you posted, I very briefly looked at it. In my eyes however, it loses a bit of credibility when it posits such things as "The Great Pyramid (the Pyramid of Khufu, or Cheops in Greek) at Gizeh, Egypt, demonstrates the remarkable character of its placement on the face of the Earth. The Pyramid lies in the center of gravity of the continents. It also lies in the exact center of all the land area of the world, dividing the earth's land mass into approximately equal quarters", and then the map upon which it attempts to demonstrate that "fact" doesn't even include Antarctica, which for comparison is roughly twice the size of Australia.

Now, Egypt aside I admit I am far more interested in the works of the ancient South American peoples. In my opinion we're still a largely Euro-centric society and as such the wonders of the ancient European world are far more well known and well explored than that of South America.

@pheonix1012, lol way to show your immaturity there bud. All it took was once jab and you unraveled like a cheap ball of twine. So much for that vocab. I obviously hit a nerve with you being lonely and a virgin. Don’t worry little buddy, it will happen one day. Never heard you rant like that before….I’m quite pleased :D it didn’t take much for your commentary to degenerate HAHAHA

You thought you were being subtle in that post to Fallacy, but you were being quite blatant, (a common mistake amongst children) and you have proved you are nothing but a whiny child. I pulled your card and you flipped out!! LMAO.

Again, please learn to read before you reply. I never said Aliens built the pyramids, I said an ancient civilization, that may very well be African built them. But they used technology that we have not yet discovered. What about that can your sheep mind not comprehend?

You said “If you feel the need to escape into a fantasy that allows you to have something meaningful to talk about or make you the center of attention it's obvious you're dealing with some social issues common to an introvert lacking human contact.”

Again you are immature; my ideas have nothing to do with the need for human contact. That idea is laughable. I can assure you I’m not on any meds., that I’ve held down a full time job for over 10 years, that I have a family etc. and quite happy with my status. My ideas and beliefs have nothing to do with social issues (unlike your immature rants) Sheep like you that feel the need to flock have this urge, to put people different than them down. It’s passive aggressive, probably because you were got picked on as a child. It’s okay, kids can be mean.

You said “Regardless of how many friends you got I probably have more than you because I get out more, and I've ###### more broads than you probably ever will, especially on account of the fact that I'm probably three quarters to half your age. But I digress from that I don't do dick measuring contest. It's always a wrap.”

Okay, so are you 12 or 13?? “I got more friends than you, “I have more broads than you” BHAHAHA grow up you little punk. Birds of a feather fly in a flock…I’m picturing the kids from American Dad right now…haha…you little brat grow up. And clean up your language, little boy, your mom should have taught you some manners.

You said “I suggest that you take a deep breath and count to ten before you post such an atrocious rant. Attacking me by thinking I'm displeased with my life when I'm sitting up #### deep in ##### to the likes you'll never experience! That's why people say you're out of touch of reality! You go to verbal insults when someone more level headed than you shows you up.”

What I said wasn’t’ a rant, you are the one ranting. All I said was little punks like you come on line and try to correct people’s grammar (while making errors yourself) because you are lonely. You are the one that lacks human contact, look at how you react, it’s obvious. LOL I have nothing to prove to a loser like you, empty barrels make the most noise, and you are void of any internal substance. All of your posts are too wordy and lack significant substance. Take a course in writing or something.

And listen, you could never show me up in a million years, you don’t have the mind for it, I’ve schooled you multiple times, including this.

You said “I’m getting of the computer because it is boring”
So why are you here almost every day? Do you like being bored…think before you write, you have made yourself to look like an idiot.

Try to compose yourself and write w/o using vulgarities if you can. You are showing your immaturity and lack of communication skills..like a kid crying on the playground.
Anyways it’s 5pm so I’m logging of and going home….I’m through schooling you for now.
P.s Phoenix is spelled P-H-O-E-N-I-X..I find it ironic, a nit picking punk kid like you, like to correct people but can’t even spell his own name BHAHAHAH
PWNED!!

@Fallacy, no I don’t other than the fact that the GP is the most massive building ever construct on earth and cannot be duplicated. No info is available on how it was constructed, no tools, nothing. Everything known about the GP’s construction has been speculated. So I’m doing the same thing..speculating.

Sonic Levitation: http://www.thewookie.co.uk/science/soniclev.html

But as far as anit-gravity goes here’s a cool starting point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr_s28wIOzQ

Let’s look at the time periods they were built in. For it’s time, the GP is WAY more complex than the ESP. When the ESB was built many other buildings had electricity, plumbing etc. The Pyramid was the tallest structure on earth for many thousands of years, only after the Effiel tower was built was it knocked off of it’s throne, a record that will never be matched. Also it is still the most massive building in the world. I say that alone makes it trump the ESP.

I don’t buy the center of the Earth’s and mass theory as I think that’s reaching. But what about the correlation to the Sun and the moon, that’s pretty amazing no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CAWwk9nN1k&feature=channel_video_title

Some immature, closed minded, people would have you believe that these theories are outlandish, but this video proves that there are many others like me who are searching for answers. And while I’m sure some are basement dwellers or schizoid (like every other school of thought has them), most are normal regular people with two cars, two garages and two kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CAWwk9nN1k&feature=channel_video_title

Honestly the south American ruins are mind blowing. Especially this one in Bolivia

http://daveearley.hubpages.com/hub/Ancient-Mysteries-Puma-Punku-in-Tiahuanaco

In Tony_Who’s post he showed the elaborate work associated with moving a 370 ton stone. There are Megalithic stones on this site that weigh between 440 and 800 tons. Made of granite, and diorite. Only thing harder than that is diamond…and even still to etch out the patterns so precisely cannot be done even today. Stone workers today said they would have to use a diamond tip drill, cooled with water and even still it would take years to re-produce this work.

Keep in mind there are no trees in this area and the quarry was over 10km away. And again, they had no knowledge of the wheel. Just doesn’t make sense. Only explanation is that a culture much older maybe 10,000 – 12,000 years old built this. Were wiped out, and then the ruins were squatted on in recent times.

Another one is Machu Picchu. If you look at it, looks like the entire mountain top was cut off to make way for the city. Not sure if I believe that, but it doesn’t look like any other mountain in the area. And I do know that it was very difficult to lift 10 ton blocks of granite up the side of a mountain!

Yes the south American sites are amazing, but they are connected to the Pyramid. You see all these ancient monuments follow the same line, on what is know as Earth’s “old equator”, before the polar shift wiped out civilization. Take this into consideration.

Latitude Longitude Distance to Line
Degrees=o of Sacred Sights
The Great Pyramid 28o 59' N 31o 0' E 0 miles
Machu Picchu 13o 6' S 72o 35' W 3 miles
Nazc4o25'S79o20'W 0 miles
Easter Island 27o 4' S 109o 22' W 9 miles
Anatom Island 20o 10' S 169o 48' W 0 miles
Angkor Wat 13o 27' N 103o 57' E 85 miles
Mohenjo Daro 27o 15' N 68o 17' E 7 miles
Persepolis 29o 50'N 52o 52' E 6 miles
Petra 30o 9' N35o47'E 3 miles

Is that just a coincidence??

Is it just a coincidence that the last post on this board was on 11/11/11? O.o