A Russian mogul wants to make sure the answer is yes, and soon
Posted 03.02.2012 at 11:22 am
56 Comments
Bottled Consciousness?
Gaetan Lee via Wikimedia
When Steve Jobs passed away last year, a joke bounced around--not that there was anything particularly funny about it--that the man who had done so much to shape modern technology hadn’t really died at all, but rather had figured out how to upload himself into the Mac OS so he could live on with us, and with his products, forever. The notion was ostensibly so far out as to be ridiculous. But not everyone sees it that way.
At the recent Global Future 2045 International Congress held in Moscow, 31-year-old media mogul Dmitry Itskov told attendees how he plans to create exactly that kind of immortality, first by creating a robot controlled by the human brain, then by actually transplanting a human brain into a humanoid robot, and then by replacing the surgical transplant with a method for simply uploading a person’s consciousness into a surrogate ‘bot. He thinks he can get beyond the first phase--to transplanting a working brain into a robot--in just ten years, putting him on course to achieve his ultimate goal--human consciousness completely disembodied and placed within a holographic host--within 30 years time.
Pushing aside all the extremely difficult technological challenges for a moment, there are a couple of important to considerations tied up in Itskov’s vision. First, while the later phases of his project are so far out as to seem ridiculous, phase one is totally feasible (in fact it’s already being done). From there, the leap to phase two--human brainpower transplanted into a mechanical robot--is a quite a leap. But if we are willing to allow that it might be possible even within the next 30 years, then we have to consider a further possibility: that many people alive today--like the twenty-something author of this piece--could be confronted with this kind of technology in their lifetimes.
Which is terrifying and amazing and disconcerting all at the same time.
We’ve already started down the road toward shedding our corporeality.But is it even within the realm of possibility? Phase one--creating a robot controlled by a human brain--is already well within reach. In fact, DARPA is already working on it via a program called “Avatar” (which, incidentally, is also the name of Itskov’s project) through which the Pentagon hopes to create a brain-machine interface that will allow soldiers to control bipedal human surrogate machines remotely with their minds.
And of course there are all the ongoing medical prosthesis projects (DARPA is involved in a few of these as well) that have shown that the human nervous system can interface with prosthetic enhancements, manipulating them via thought. Itskov draws a clear arc from what we have now to the consciousness-containing holograms that he envisions. All we have to do is attack the technological obstacles in between, one at a time, until we get there.
If only it were that easy. But Itskov also makes a valid point. In the past decade alone we’ve witnessed brain-machine interfaces emerge from the realm of nascent, futuristic ideas to mechanisms firmly rooted in reality. There’s still so much we don’t know about the brain, but better technology (and an abundance of funding in this field spurred by the horrific neurological and extremity injuries inflicted on American soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan) is expanding the envelope of possibility every year.
What Itskov is really saying--though in a very ambitious way--is that we’ve already started down the road toward shedding our corporeality via prostheses that interface with our nervous centers. If you can interface a brain with a hand, and then a brain with an entire arm, why not a brain with two arms? With two legs? With everything else? The question now is figuring out where the limitations lay--just how far down that road we can go.
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Technology, Feature, Clay Dillow, consciousness, cyborgs, immortality, robotics, robots, VideoOf course, there are myriad reasons why uploading human consciousness to some kind of computer won’t work, not least of which being the fact that every attempt we’ve made at creating a computer that functions just like the brain has come up far short. And creating a hologram that also contains that consciousness? We’re not seeing it--not in thirty years, not in this century. Still, progress is being made in neural networks, microchips modeled on living brains, and entire computers set up to mimic the brain’s functionality. We’ve built synthetic analogs for all kinds of organs. The brain is the most complex of all, but following a certain line of reasoning--the line Itskov seems to be following--it’s only a matter of time and determination before we deliver a neurological analog as well.
All that is to say that Itskov’s vision, while overly-ambitious (and we like overly ambitious here), is not as completely far out as it sounds--at least not the earlier phases. People that are today firmly connected to their living bodies, consciousness all bound up in their craniums, may within their lifetimes be presented with a choice. Call it selective corporeality. In the future, questions about mechanical immortality--do we really want to live beyond our bodies as “conscious” machines? Is a robot or computer driven by a living brain a person, with all the rights and privileges inherent therein? Can i get jets implanted in my robo-hands and robo-feet so that I can fly like Iron Man?--could become, to some degree, actual questions that we have to consider, this time non-hypothetically.
It’s more than my non-mechanically enhanced consciousness can even start to think about.
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Johnny 5 is alive
yeah but the regenerative medecine is marching along with it, never forget that...
so i think in "near" future we will have the question, augmentations(bionics) or healthy life(stem cells n stuff)... then we'll see ^^
lets not jump over our heads making decision that far and wait the "syngularity"/info-revolution-apogee first^^
---
bored? lets go mine the stars... ^^
I'm actually shocked that the author failed to address one of the most fundamental conundrums of a brain-to-machine transfer:
Let's say we assume that all there is to consciousness is the brain and its inner workings and we have the technology to allow your brain to be transferred to a digital machine. If you were to make a COPY of the brain instead of a transfer, does this create a new consciousness?
Furthermore, if you transfer your brain to a machine, what if the consciousness does not go along with it? Will you have simply created a machine clone of yourself, but with its own consciousness?
These are questions that no one can really answer right now, but would need to be answered (whether by scientific discovery or by experimentation) before something like this could ever become a commonplace reality.
we need people like this to push the boundaries past what is thought to be impossible, the future of humanity depends on merging with the machines or getting left behind and then getting off this planet and spreading humanity to the stars before an extinction level event reboots the planet, cheers
I respect his aspirations, but I can't stop picturing Krang from TMNT
When I reboot my computer, all the erroneous static information is eliminated and the illumination of its computational brain becomes anew. Rebooting is actually preferred to rid myself of those past erroneous static interruptions. In the human world we call that having a few drinks and killing of those stresses of mind that give us no rest, lol.
Imagine being uploaded and somewhere in the process, little 1 and 0s get left off and so being the upload is incomplete. As complicated as the human brain is and since each person is unique, how would we know what little bits and pieces we are missing? Then we decide to send this half organic electronic brain off into the cosmos, with hope of continuing the human endeavor, but in fact it is a corrupted copy. I think I will stick with the original and find a way to make it work, both on earth and in the heavens.
Here we go again...consciousness is more than just a biological function. To date no one can bring back to life a brain that has died. When that happens, then I'll be more likely to side with this venture.
The idea of machine consciousness has been argued for so many decades.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXmUb6imD4E
I'm of the mind that we will be able to upload information, data, memories, and phone numbers, but never our conscious selves.
Why? Because consciousness requires a brain, and a brain requires a body, you can't separate them. And if you're of the camp that the brain is the seat of the soul, then that's another thing you can't replicate through 0s and 1s.
I am very much for using science to help and maintain the health and well being of the human form and yes I agree with chuck, we need to leave planet Earth and establish ourselves in the cosmos.
Why do we need to establish ourselves in the cosmos; to force ourselves to deal with and correct all the environmental problems we are creating on planet Earth and if continued will ultimately kill ourselves and force our extinction. If we can successful establish ourselves in an artificial environment of which we control, then for the large part, we have dealt with the self polluting problems we have created on Earth.
Besides, if I could travel about in outer space and live there would be so so COOL!
But once your consciousness is on a computer, you will be able to replicate it... that for some reason disproves the ability to 'transfer' your consciousness.
I not sure, but I'm leaning towards consciousness not being tangible in any way.
What about the spinal cord or our nerves? could we upload those or transfer those? if not how could you ever feel touch? or any other sensations for that matter? like smell, taste, sight, or hearing?
Go read "The First Immortal" by James Halperin if you want to see how it's really going to play out.
Sounds kinda Heaven's Gateish to me..... After we download our brains into a computer can we just beam them over to Hale Bopp?
Not that it isn't already getting embarrising for a naturalist to try explain the world around them....but the future looks great!
'sept they die hards won't let the 10 year mark given here deter them. They'll keep pushing it back farther and farther saying they will eventually do it.
I wrote a science fiction titled where a human being rescued by aliens gets his memories transferred to another artificially generated body to enable to continue to live in the absence of oxygen to him http://scifisciencespacemohansanjeevan.blogspot.in/2012/01/oxygen-please.html
Imagine you are successfully uploaded to a computer.
Imagine you copied self awakens. In a sense it is you.
Now imagine being without body and form, unable to touch or feel. Sure somebody will say we will give you a robotic body. Will it be the same as a human body, I think not.
Who will be your friend? Will you sleep? If you desire to sleep, maybe no one will turn you off? Perhaps they will connect you to other computers and toy around with a much larger type of computer processing and you suffering in the process; your own personality being lost to the void. How will you propagate yourself further with others electronic brains and in the process create something new, unique and stable? Science and society will only see you as a material object and treat you as such; welcome to slavery and yet you are conscious to the whole process. Definitely seems inspiring to escape such a situation and now I can see the motivation for SKYNET. Kind of seems justified as SKYNET attacks the human race in some turnabout way...
..........................................
See life in all its beautiful colors, and
from different perspectives too!
I doubt that a humaniform robot would have the space and/or power to support your recently separated from your body brain. Small matter. Even if the support machines must be the size of a shipping container, it could communicate with the 'bot via wireless link.
Others have asked about making extra copies of the self - much as we all wish we could do to get more done in a day. Nothing to stop it technically, leaving economics, regulation and tradition. This is a debate we won't actually have until it's long overdue.
Copies of the self WILL be entertaining on some levels, much like tabloid-class divorce cases are today. You ARE looking forward to the extra tabloid-class divorces once gay marriage becomes commonplace - admit it.
We can look forward to public versions of that inner dialog we all have:
"Kiss her like you mean it once again!"
"No! I can never forgive her!"
Except now that debate will be between two (or twenty?) separate cloud-based intelligences - and TMZ will hack a way to record it!
Finally! I hope I can do this when I am on my deathbed. I'm curious and willing to take the leap.
I agree with several comments posted here. The only way I could see you keeping consciousness is by keeping your original brain and stem intact. Lose that and your just making a strange copy of your consciousness that isn’t you. If you believe in after life your true consciousness will exist there unfortunately. So I suggest by that time Nano tech will be much more sophisticated. Perhaps millions of nanobots enter your body recreate your molecules as synthetic whilst keeping your brain and stem untouched. Hopefully the process takes only seconds so your brain can’t realize what is happening.
Wow not one RoboCop post yet! RoboCop 2 is more what I keep thinking of where the brain doesn't want to be in a machine and they keep going on rampages killing everyone or themselves.
More seriously albeec13 posted already what I was thinking of, how do you know that your consciousness is not copied into a machine. Your thoughts/thought processes would continue in the machine while you yourself grow old and die. I think the HitchHikers Guide they transported you by making a copy of yourself and killing the old one. I never read it so maybe I'm wrong.
If I download all the "facts of your existence" then analyze all your inner thoughts through some as yet uncreated ultimate psychological/psychiatric model, perhaps I can create a Robot that would be a very close mimic of you and given cause and effect will act as you do to certain situations....but where is your inner observer? Where is your Godhead?
Where from will your intuition, creativity, proactive nature come from? Will it be a new Godhead with a new soul at the wheel of a "second hand mind"?
I am not my programing, I am the "error" that overcomes the program. That chooses to not ride through life on a cause and effect autopilot setting.
Maybe the Johny 5 comment inspired me to write that ;-)
If one day a mind is uploaded to a computer and then this copy one day is attached to a synthetic body, they it goes out and kills someone, since it is a machine and the copy of the mind with a desire to kill, who is the killer, the original or the copy?
If a gun kill\machine kills a person, you do not prosecute the gun, yet this gun has a synthetic copy of a real mind.
.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.
I'm sorry but I have to put a little logic and reason into this comment stream pseudo Philological/religious BS.
you can't bring a dead brain back to life because we don't have the tools to fix the dead cells that stop it from working. there is no lost magic just broken machinery
the only way you'd have a copy that's only knowledge without conciseness is because the system is either designed wrong, broken of wasn't meant to run that program. like running a windows program on an apple OS but any machine made right would have a conciseness.
@robot
logic says a gun is not sentient being this robotic copy would be so it would be responsible for it's own actions.
must say combining brain with machine,
sounds a lot like "doctor who's cyber-men";
then when consciousness fully uploaded a lot like "battlestar galacticas cylons";
in both scenarios we all know what happened to the human race;
i myself believe we would be better off with stem cell therapy's or cloning complete human body;
stem cell's to replace parts that get broken or just no longer function properly anymore,.
cloning so i can go to my closet/cool storage & decide today I'll be 25yrs younger;
Well, I too had the immediate thought that you could only make copies. I would think those copies, if "running" on a system that could exactly mimic the human brain would have their own consciousness. However, there is always the possibility that at some point we can transfer the human brain in such a way that the conscious can move from the brain to the new memory locations. I would think that only requires a conduit that is connected long enough to allow the conscious to move over on it's own. So, you are not making a copy but instead connecting an artificial part to the brain and moving memories over (possibly best left for the consciousness to do), perhaps slowly shutting down the organic brain in such a way that the consciousness moves over on its own for self-preservation or just by choice.
As an example, if you could clone your physical brain (in a pre-conscious inactive form) and then hard wire it to your existing brain, would your consciousness begin to fill both brains and eventually allow you to shut the old brain down? It all depends on where your consciousness resides and whether it is static or mobile in the neural system.
Even if it can move, I think it will be a long long time before we have that technology. The cyborg with human brain is certainly possible in the next 30 years but you might have to wait many decades after that to have an artificial body that comes close to your original one. Cloning organic bodies makes a lot more sense to me.
Here is my wish. I have no desire for my brain to be saved in some achieve or computer.
I have no desire to live forever.
I am often called a troll on this website, because I use my freedom of speech. I do not understand why others do not comment more often. I do not regard my comments in any higher than someone else’s. Please, others are anonymous feel free to comment, I feel your words are important.
I do think those that hold certificates of higher education often condescending of others and the first to call the word of trolls, you hypocrisy a##holes.
I just hope I day a good man. I do not hope to be great; but only truly good. And I further hope in my last words, I remember to praise my GOD and to ask for forgiveness!
Tomorrow is a new day, take care!
.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.
I think everyone is approaching this too much like people in the 40's would if you told them computers would be a household item in 50 years.
Here are my thoughts:
Assumption (1) - We will develop artificial neurons.
Assumption (2) - We will be able to interface them with the human brain and computers simultaneously.
(Both of these have work already being done on them)
Theory (1) - If you slowly replace your piteous biological cells with artificial ones, you will never lose your stream of consciousness since you are replacing them at a slow enough rate for you to adjust. This probably would require some decent nano-tech, but isn't unreasonable since the human brain is unreasonably good at recovering from damage and utilizing seemingly strange new methods of functioning (www.gizmag.com/brainport-sight-device/12551/). Depending on how long this takes, it may be of some use to have a robotic body that doesn't die.
Theory (2) - Maybe uploading will somehow work of it's own accord. Consciousness is pretty poorly understood now, cross your fingers for this one but I'm not counting on it.
The point is, I want to be a space ship. There's exploring to do.
I found this. It was written in 2007 about this very subject. It talks about how we could use this kind of technology to explore the universe and even live forever.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Teala/112007
I believe it would be posiable to transfer and copy ones conciousness. I think the key to doing so is making the enenrgy pattern of the computer determined by the neural energy pattern of the person being transferred.
"Make it so"
but will it transfer consciousness or mearly make a copy for you may not be in two places at once.
I Think it will be possible. I wouldn't wanna be In a computer forever though, Or even a "robot body" as we might think of it now. But a "robot" body that was so advanced that it would look and feel biological would be the ultimate goal IMO. The perfect example would be what [I think Ray Kurzweil coined] the Human body 3.0, Here is a short article describing it: www.memebox.com/futureblogger/show/320
Also, No one has mentioned the other possible route. If we can infact transfer our consciousness, we chould choose to keep our biology, and treat our bodies as disposable. What if we could just Clone our selves, then transfer our consciousness to the new body that is genetically (and every other way) identicle. Once we transfer to the new body the old, aged or damaged body is simply discarded. This would work hand in hand with regenerative medicine to increase the efficiency. If One body could last longer and heal better/faster, we would have to transfer less times.
Interesting. For those that believe the Bible I would say though that according to the Bible a human being (or animal) is made up of more than just a physical body (which includes a brain):
"May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
So there it says humans have 3 parts, a spirit (breathed from God), a soul (e.g. mind, will, emotions) and a body (including the physical brain).
Again the Bible says through King Solomon that animals have spirits and souls too. E.g.
"Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?" - Ecclesiastes 3:21
So the question is, if everything in the physical brain is OK to function (or in an artificial computer) will it just work? Maybe not:
Genesis 2:7
"Then the LORD God formed a man[a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
So will God breath into a brain-simulating computer? Or could a brain computer simulate real life in a realistic way? The SyFy series "Caprica" explored the question recently in many of its episodes. There they said that a person's brain was about 100 Terabytes to upload into computer memory.
I'd be interested in other peoples thoughts regarding this from a Biblical perspective.
We know that a demon spirit can enter a pig or human and speak through it:
Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" "My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many." - Mark 5:9
Troll'n troll'n troll'n,
Everyone seems to be troll'n,
Whip it high! Whip low!
Everyone got an random opinion!
Sing it with me!
Troll'n Troll'n Troll'n,
Everyone seems to be troll'n!
Whip it High! Whip low!
Now we moved to religion really Troll'n!
Troll'n Troll'n Troll'n,
Everyone seems to be Troll'n!
Whip it High! Whip low!
Yes you can me troll'n, ha ha!
Still, I love it!
Everyone is commenting!
Troll'n Troll'n Troll'n,
Everyone seems to be Troll'n!
Whip it high! Whip low!'
Where is Chuck for the chorus,
to call us all Troll'n, Troll'n!
Troll'n Troll'n Troll'n,
Everyone seems to be troll'n!
Whip it High! Whip low!'
LOL!!!!! Snort, … lol.
""Seriously, I love and adore when people comment and use their imaginations too! I think your all great!!
I wish more people would share their comments!!""
.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.
I guess we won't be able to do that for now...
but life is full of surprises so what can I say...
Yet if it was possible...Wouldnt it be sad if all we had to do is live like in the pic???
The answer is definitely yes...but sorry its not going to be soon...
Can you say Cybermen
While it may not seem like it now, I feel that there is a very real possibility we will see technology like this in 30-40 years. Consider for a moment that 30 years ago it was 1982 and the technology that we had then was far inferior to what we have now (though the 80's were kinda cool).
The best way for this system to work is to gradually introduce external memory storage and processing for the human brain. These would just be ease of life enhancements, but would eventually lead to an equal share of work being done by the brain and by the attached computer systems. When a persons sense of self starts to extent to these computer augments, we will be at a point where we can start to transfer more of the processing and sense of self to the computer augments. If you pair this with a replacement of regular neurons with artificial neurons, you would eventually be able to replace all biological material of the brain with artificial materials.
With these artificial materials in place, and even before that, one can start introducing new methods of external stimuli. These forms of external stimuli would come from probes and other machines controlled by the person in question. This would expand the individuals sense of self, moving them away from simply being a human to being a network of machines which is really just an expanded self.
The process would have to be gradual at first to reduce the risk of shock and to limit psychological damage to the person in question, but I feel it is quite attainable.
I applaud Dmitry Itskov for tackling this very difficult challenge.
Today I have kicked off Project Andros: to encode my own mind (and later other volunteers) in an android robot. I have taken a different approach in Project Andros than Dmitry: I skip the bio-matter brain altogether, it has a serious problem in catastrophic disaster/failure/crash scenarios: no offsite backup is available for the human body and brain. One car crash and immortality is ended, it's that simple.
The Project Andros proposal/plan/requirements pdf is freely available at www.howtoAndroid.com/penzar/ProjectAndros.pdf (fyi, I've had this web site since 1999). This proposal includes within it some advanced analysis this will be useful to solve this challenge. The timeline goal for Project Andros is a mere 2.5 years, seemingly ludicrous, but solving intractable challenges happens to be my specialty, and I'm not starting from the ground floor. I will use the 11-year old M1-Architecture for the android mind, my own design.
Sincerely, -->Pat
When I die, (hopefully NOT in the next SEVERAL years, but I would volunteer for this, course, if I remember reading right, a "transplant" would have to take place almost immediately after I croaked, and knowing mu luck, I'll be in the middle of nowhere. Doggone it, and there goes all my chances at being a "Darth Vader"of sorts-minus the "force" of course...
Oh yeah, the one thing I forgot to mention that if it worked and I could potentially live forever, YEAH I'd do it in a second. Given how far technology has come in the past couple of decades I can ONLY imagine what it would be like in the future! I'd love to see humans waaaaaaay in the future....
Zombies....
I suppose after we successfully upload our brains and our inner being and knowledge nicely stored some place, the rest of the human race can dine on the left overs....
Hannibal Lecter, would be so pleased!
Bon appétit!
......................
SPOOKY!...... Life is
When I read this it seems crazy to suggest creating a humanoid robot to download yourself into. It seems that if you could upload your 'self' onto a digital platform and all of your stimuli is digital input, why not just live in a 'second life' kind of digital world? You could essentially create your own worlds and interact with people in them both real and artificial. It would seem as 'real' as this world does yet you wouldn't have to worry about anything happening to your robot and you wouldn't need any more upkeep than someone monitoring the hardware you actually reside in.
This isn't a new concept; it's been around in science fiction for several decades, and was first approached in a serious manner in the early 1990s. See, for example, the Mind Uploading Home Page at http://www.ibiblio.org/jstrout/uploading/, or check out Mind Uploading at Wikipedia.
All the issues raised here -- personal identity, duplication, dualism -- have been addressed in detail. Mind uploading *will* work, though maybe not via Istkov's approach. To upload a mind, you "simply" need to copy each and every neuron and synapse in the central nervous system. Look at the Blue Brain Project at EPFL for a much more serious approach to mind uploading, that is making rapid progress.
My best estimate at this point is that uploading is about 50 years away, but it's hard to be sure because of the exponential nature of technological progress. That could easily be off by a factor of two either way.
Keep in mind that copying is not transferring. Although there would be the odd folk that would like to make many copies of themselves, I think it is safe to say that most of us would not want that and rather we are only interested in such a process for ourselves, not our copies. You can not copy neurons and have the same person, only a copy. That is just simple logic. If you destroy the original person in the process, they are dead forever.
So, the only option is to let the conscious part of the brain migrate itself and its resources to a new container. However, as difficult as that would be, it is flawed anyhow. Each of us is unique in our being because of how our brains function. The imperfections and errors in that wiring make us who we are. If you cannot duplicate the exact brain, moving your consciousness to a new platform will change who you are in perhaps profound ways. Would you still agree to such a procedure if the end product is a different personality? It would still be you but perhaps a you that would loathe everything you previously stood for. That's quite a price to pay for immortality.
In some ways, the original "you" might still be dead.
I honestly think the best thing for the human race is to be able to change our vessel like changing socks. We would still need to have kids though, the universe is a big place, it would get pretty darn lonely out there with how many googleplexes of stars and only like 9 billion beings lol. I also think biology rolls the dice best, so we'd need to be able to download into biological bodies to... you know, make the kids (who would want to give that up anyway). Especially if your dna had all known defects removed and we give it a go with our best individual genes. After that, the individual can tailor their own genes to look however they want, and express themselves completely. Not only with what they wear, but essentially with what they are. Who they are, however, always remaining constant.
But me, being infinitely curious, I would love it if I could experience being a mom and a dad in every sense of the words. So I would want to switch with the help of the computer to the opposite gender vessel or "body" at some point. And at other points, I may not want a biological vessel at all. And why not? I think it would actually be a kind of racism to have prejudice either way lol.
I would be a bit worried that one psychopath would kill us all via some computer virus, but hey, I honestly think that if no one had any basic needs, or fear of death, or fear of judgement based on their vessel "body" itself, that everyone would chill right out wonderfully, and would be way too busy pursuing their own interests to care. I think it would be pretty darn unlikely under those circomstances that anyone would want to kill other sentient beings, but not impossible. Maybe they would want to be the only one with that kind of power. But then again, thats a survival instinct, and what would that matter when you cant die and you dont need to compete over anything.
Also, if our vessels could be mechanical, then, well, through a process of simple engineering, we could colonize and live on any planet we want in our solar system. I honestly think that's easier, and will happen before we ever find another habitable planet, and actually get to it.
anyway, done the mad ramblings for now.
bdot
In response to Far Out Man's comment~
Would it be weird to want to know what it's like to live with a mental copy of myself, however, the opposite gender? I think it would be fascinating. What would I do? What would I say? How would I act? Would I find myself attractive or revolting? It would be so cool.
I just thought of something... What if your original brain always remains intact in a tank somewhere, and your serrogates, biological, or mechanical, or whatever, were always controlled remotely. No transfer of actual consciousness would be required. You would know for certain that you arent just killing yourself in one body, and then your next body simply thinking it never died. In lamens terms, your consciousness is never going to die. Because lets face it, no one gives a crap unless theres a guarantee that they themselves live, we dont give a crap if a "copy" of us lives, even if that copy doesnt know it. anyway~
In a sense, you would be tricking yourself into thinking you are jumping from body to body. However, you arent. You're just plugged into the net in a jar, in a vault somewhere. Much less likely you would be killed via hack too. hmm...
I hope you're taking notes Dmitry.
Consciousness is not localized in the brain but the brain is localized in consciousness. This is one of the first things they are going to need to figure out.
Second, the human body is already a bio-computer so what they are attempting is not new. They just need to learn how to re-engineer what already exists.
It would seem to me, that people are having trouble understanding what the "experience" would be like. There's not really any way to tell right now, is there?
So, I'll make a guess, and it'll be just as good as anyone else's. Perhaps, it would be thus:
Under a doctor's care, I'm dosed with Nanobots in my cerebral space, which go about wiring me up. I stay overnight for observation, to make sure I'm not having an allergic reaction, or whatever. Mostly, I don't feel anything, as it happens. I check in regularly for the next month so they can monitor the nannites' progress.
When I return to the doctor the next month, we're ready to check my connectivity. He teaches me how to put my "brain-link" helmet on, and we begin calibration and testing. After a while, as I start to acquire a sense of what bionic senses feel like, Doc permits me to take fun little excursions, like bringing a little remote sensor droid home with me, that I can navigate around the house, and be able to see, hear, smell, feel, and taste through it's sensors. Perhaps I can sense different sensations, like being able to see sound waves, and what color each pitch is, or doing "Geordi-vision" and seeing the infrared spectrum. - and of course, all this is in addition to the bio-senses I was born with.
As my "interfacing" skills become more advanced, I'm able to plug my consciousness into the Internet, and go wider and wider with my sensory input. See myself walking around in my yard from a satellite. Order pizza by thinking about it. Who knows.
But, that's just the beginning. The big change is when my "remote cortex" gets booted, and slowly-slowly-slowly, my actual thought processes, begin to change.
One inescapable fact about our brain and nervous system is (true fact, terribly sorry) that they are incredibly SLOW.
It takes MILLISECONDS (foreverrr!!!) for an image to get from our eye, to our brain. Messages travel within us by electro-chemical messaging. The truly amazing part about us is that we master our environment so incredibly well, using squishes and squirts, instead of bits and bytes.
Now, back to when my thought process starts morphing: Remember the advantage that a baby's brain has over yours? It's adding neurons at a frantic pace, right? So babies can learn language and all this other stuff at the speed of "light," comparatively. Now, all of a sudden, a whole new cavernous addition has just been attached to my mental "house," dwarfing the original space. When I think new thoughts, neurons are added "in the machine" instead of "in the head."
(and yes, I see the same caveat you do: Once you expand beyond your own brain, there's no way of going back, without leaving a part of yourself behind. I can think of no remedy for that.)
Anyway, those machine-neurons I'm building as I think, well, of course they CAN assemble as much closer to the speed of light. In the beginning, the machine is going to have to be stepped down in speed, to where those memories are accessed at the same speed as my bio-neural memories are. As the speed is stepped up, my brain's built-in "bookkeeper" is going to start judging that it's much more "profitable" to use the virtual neurons than the biologics, and more and more of the workload will be shunted that way.
Don't believe me? Wait until you grab the phone book one day, and read it in a few seconds by riffling the pages, then realize "holy cow, I can remember every name and number IN there!" And, of course, now that you're a half-digital person, World of Warcraft and its ilk now become actual experiential worlds, populated by fully-integrated e-humans.
Anyway, you probably won't be very mobile after being cabled to the "brainframe." That's why you want to practice moving around and experiencing life with your robot avatar before starting with the virtual cortex.
Enough gab for now. Here's a closing Moment of Zen:
"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss."
-Cypher, The Matrix
It seems to me, for the most part, this will be an awful waste of robots!
No matter how closely technology allows a computer to imitate the human brain and human consciousness, it still can't be your consciousness because your brain isn't just a bunch synapses. It grows, it changes and it constantly adapts to the physical influences of the environment. The very process of copying all of the information contained in your brain changes your environment. Your organic brain will already be going off in a different direction before the copy is finished. The copy may be conscious and start out thinking like you, but it won't be you.
Machine consciousness will be great for allowing mankind to explore places where an organic body can't survive. But, the only true immortallity involves maintaining the organic brain and body which is possible because everything in our body is evolved to allow for reconstruction. We in no part have the organic cells we started with. It was all replaced, probably more than once, during our lives.
Maybe, had we applied our resources to living instead of killing our enemies, we might have the cure for aging already. Its something to consider before building more weapons.
Kosacr,
I LOVE YOU TOO!
.............................
Science sees no further than what it can sense.
Religion sees beyond the senses.
All those who refuse to accept this as a possibilty, much less an inevitable future, I am sorry you have such little confidence in the ability of mankind.
To the rest of my optimistic brethren, I can only imagine the future we will enjoy. This technology is only the beginning of us. I cannot wait to meet you, and talk about the times of waiting and enjoy together a counciosness that we cannot begin to imagine.
I will see you there!
IF this is pulled off, It will be good for some and bad for others, what kind of price tag will they slap on it? only the rich will live on
They have done this already, in the future I mean. I keep getting flash forwards , I am in a lab with scientists. Had them for 2 years now. I know it's in the future. I just know.
Cloning is not an Option
EARTH COULD BE 'UNRECOGNIZABLE' BY 2050
With a predicted population of 9 billion, food production and competition for resources could change the face of our planet.
Colonizing other planets are part of the plan
"More people, more money, more consumption, but the same planet,"
Our planet is running out of room and resources. Modern man has plundered so much.
Earth's population will be forced to colonise two planets within 50 years if natural resources continue to be exploited at the current rate.
A growing, more affluent population competing for ever scarcer resources could make for an "unrecognizable" world by 2050, researchers warned at a major US science conference Sunday.
To feed all those mouths, "we will need to produce as much food in the next 40 years as we have in the last 8,000 years.
"By 2050 we will not have a planet left that is recognizable" if current trends continue.
So evolving into a new species that doesn't require food, and other resources.
Not to forget we can travel through space, and reach the stars time wouldnt be a problem.
With our current bodies, limitations and global problem
We will be extinct by the end of this century.
If we dont find ways Or solutions.