Iran Indefinitely Suspends Plans to Launch a Monkey into Space

Looks like it's back to ICBMs and state funded terror support for the Islamic Republic.

"The person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago you knew we were alone in this universe. Imagine what you know, tomorrow."
-- Tommy Lee Jones as Agent K, Men In Black, 1997

I suppose launching a chimp could let them test life support technologies on their capsule. However, one would think they could simulate that on the ground. There is really little need to send a live chimp all over again.

Besides, if they do succeed in putting their own astronauts in space then they will be too busy praying to do much else, because a day lasts 90 minutes in low orbit and they have to pray five times a day, facing mecca? How will they keep track of where mecca is every 18 minutes in orbit, especially if the spacecraft is upside down or in a slow roll? Also, how will they bite the carpet in zero gravity? Ah the challenges of adapting 7th century superstition to the space age.

I never thought about that part. Will muslim Arabs ever be able to journey into space?

Sounds to me like it's time for another revolution. A secular one this time. More like a complete societal overhaul on Islamic practice. Like the Lutheran movement that established Protestant denominations of Christianity. Spiritual practice more compatible with the modern world.

Plus they just need to overthrow the power hungry autocrats in disquise. A republic can't exist with a monarch in place to control who can run for offices and legislature.

"The person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago you knew we were alone in this universe. Imagine what you know tomorrow."
-- Tommy Lee Jones as Agent K, Men In Black, 1997

Persians are not Arabs. Before the Islamic revolution of 1970's Iran was a fairly moderate country. Too bad they let the lunatics come to power. Middle East would have been a far better place right now if Iran was not the way it is after the Islamic revolution.

borasar,
That's why we're trying to prevent religious lunatics like Bachmann and Perry from coming to power in the US as well. Some of us know that once the religious crazies take over that it is very hard to get rid of them and scientific progress gets retarded by decades. Imagine if fundamentalist, creationist, bible-thumpers had been in charge, instead of JFK, during the Space Race. We never would have made it to the Moon.

Monkey history trivia:
...............................

Before humans went into space, several animals were launched into space, including numerous monkeys, so that scientists could investigate the biological effects of space travel. The United States launched flights containing primate cargo primarily between 1948-1961 with one flight in 1969 and one in 1985. France launched two monkey-carrying flights in 1967. The Soviet Union and Russia launched monkeys between 1983 and 1996. Most monkeys were anesthetized before lift-off. Overall thirty-two monkeys flew in the space program; none flew more than once. Numerous back-up monkeys also went through the programs but never flew. Monkeys from several species were used, including rhesus monkeys, cynomolgus monkeys, squirrel monkeys, and pig-tailed macaques. Some chimpanzees were also used.
.............................

I suppose if a Iran is going to start an outer space program and the rest of the world is keeping its information as secret as possible, you have to start somewhere.

I doubt that Iran has too much trouble getting their hands on 50 year old scientific data. It sounds to me that they are more interested in the symbolic stunt potential of a live suborbital flight, despite the fact that this is not too terribly impressive to the rest of the world. However, even they, apparently have better things to do with time and money. Since Amadenijad thinks the world will end any day now anyway and that the Mahdi will return, I doubt he cares too much for space travel. If anything, he sees the the space program as Kruschev did, as a provocative display of intercontinential rocket technology that could be used to deliver military assets other than chimps.

I can't resist: "Amadenijad had a prior commitment."

In this day and age science doesn't need to use animals for experiments anymore. For Iran, it's just easier and cheaper than actually acquiring the monitoring systems needed to gather data about oxygen levels, pressure, radiation, ect... Have some humanity as well as commonsense or at least some science education to know that many studies have found that chimps will not exactly react to extremes put upon them as humans would. That is why many institutions are stopping experimentation on chimps and other related species. It's only because of the lack of funding and humanity institutions are still experimenting on animals. <> As a scientist I am ashamed of the lack of humanity and science that still exist in the world.

@aarontco

That's all Amadenijad wants. The ability to strike at Turkey and Israel. You can skip the pleasantries of sending a chimp into suborbit to do that. That government is more concerned with the development of more advanced shahabs. Means strategic leverage they can use against Europe (and in turn the U.S.), and, as such, the ability to strike at Israel uncontested. Trouble is, Israel won't take it up the ### like that. The makings of thermonuclear holocaust.

"The person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago you knew we were alone in this universe. Imagine what you know, tomorrow."
-- Tommy Lee Jones as Agent K, Men In Black, 1997

Pheonix1012 wrote:
"That's all Amadenijad wants. The ability to strike at Turkey and Israel."

The thing is that Mahmoud knows that Israel can strike back using submarine-launched nuclear warheads, so I don't think he's interested in throwing the first punch. Instead, I think he's just arching his back like a cat, so that he looks bigger and his adversaries don't think he's too weak. They may just barely have the smallest nuclear capabilities. Like North Korea, they want to play that for all it's worth.

Besides, his people have already tried to get rid of him and the ayatollahs, and that was before all this "Arab Spring" stuff. (Yes, I know he's Persian, not Arab. Many Libyans aren't really Arab either, they're Berber). He has to keep them distracted with external enemies or they'll remember that they want to get rid of his crazy keister.

@phoenix1012 don't pretend you know what Amadenijiad wants. The U.S wants their oil..and every thing you hear negative about Iran is to prepare the american public for the illegal war they are about to wage. Iran is not in the western banking cartel, so they are a big target. Iran does not fund terrorists. Iran and the persian people in general are a peacful people and have not invaded a country since 300 (Xerxes). P.S Israel is a terrorist sate, they terrorize the Palestinians daily. So why are you worried with a terrorist sate (Israel) that claims to be "God's chosen people?" DO you believe they are god's chosen people?

I don't know why popsci is even printing this bogus article, Iran is nowhere near a space program, the people of Iran are in a dictatorship and the Iranian government just makes stuff up like this to impress their public, meanwhile they are nowhere close to putting a satellite in orbit, much less a craft with life support.

Aldrons Last Hope,

I absolutely agree with “...the people of Iran are in a dictatorship and the Iranian government just makes stuff up like this to impress their public..." impress the public or just rattle cages in the world too.

@ALH did you know there is more untapped oil in Canada, and the gulf, and off the US coast than in all of the Middle east? Why aren't we invading Canada or Mexico?

I look forward to the future day, when tyrants and dictators no longer rule a people in our world!

I'm sure you do, Bubba (and of of your new IDs)

I'm not sure there will be a day ever where the strong and ruthless don't end up exploiting the weak. As far as the oil in Canada and offshore, it's not the same quality oil. It is far more expensive to refine, and in the case of offshore it is also more expensive to tap. And, since people have obviously forgotten, when we have an oil spill, we can have hundreds of millions of gallons leak from some of these wells into the sea before they are capped. Saudi oil is still attractive because it is cheap to refine and cheap to pump out of the ground. However, their resources will not last forever either. We can make projections about probable resources and these projections suggest that, even if we find new places offshore and even if we move to more expensive to process oils that the days of dirt cheap oil are over. Our economy is built on CHEAP oil. Expensive oil will not help us. As it gets more expensive then world economies will stall out. That's why we need alternatives. And no nuclear is not the one-size-fits-all, cheap, what-could-possibly-go-wrong answer.

@aarontco

True that.

@ALH

I'm not talking about the Iranian people. I'm talking about the Iranian government. They haven't invaded another nation in so long because they have already had their historical period in a rise to sufficient global dominance and decline. All nations that reach a status of global economic and/or militaristic dominance see the same fate (Persia (Iran), Greece, Rome, England, Germany, Russia, and the U.S.).

Intelligence reports trace the trafficking of money, tools (weapons), and information from the Iranian government to several radical terrorists groups worldwide, most definitely to include the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. For this they don't have to invade another country when they can pay insurgent organizations to exercise their international agenda.

Saudi Arabia and Iraq have sufficient oil fields to suit our economic endeavors, plus we're heavy business partners with the Saudis. We can make due without Iran's oil for a good while. Besides I'm sure messing with their oil would provoke Russia in a counterproductive way.

The Arab-Israeli conflict has more to do with Palestinians and Israelis than it has to do with Arabs in other countries, the Berber, or Persians. It's a war of concepts and ideals that spans as far back as the 19th century. One side is no more evil than the other; even if one side is the self-proclaimed chosen people of God. As far as Arab muslims, those on the more extreme side of Islamic practice take the concept of Jihad to some real gangster ####. So believe me when I say Arabs can be just as violent as the next human being (which is animalistically violent).

Pause: Before you think I'm singling out the violence of a particular group, I'm merely stating that violence is an aspect of the human condition and levels of violence are based more on the individual rather than on an ethnic, cultural or religious division.

Besides, if Israel were a terrorist state, we wouldn't be loosely allied with them. As a matter of fact our government tends to be impartial to the conflict save for the humanitarian issues. Be careful how you throw out the terrorist label. The conflict that defines the two doesn't fit that description. Everything occurring in that part of the world is war, and war is just heinous.

You gotta stop contradicting absolutely everything you here regarding current events. Everything is not a conspiracy, and believe me, their are Arab muslims who would love to cut out your tongue and hack you up just because you are not their image of "Allah's chosen people," (i.e. the extremists). Don't try to look for something between the lines that isn't there. You'll only work to loose touch with reality.

"The person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody knew, the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago you knew we were alone in this universe. Imagine what you know, tomorrow."
-- Tommy Lee Jones as Agent K, Men In Black, 1997

@Ianredneck...aarontco, basically answered that, I'd like to add that the majority of our oil production is sold to the U.S

@aarontco.....cold fusion is the answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9I_CJti-RU&feature=related

@phoenix1012, you didn't answer my question, what makes you think you know what Addenijiad wants? You painted a picture that he wants to strike Israel and Turkey. Basically a zionists wet dream. The Iranians have not committed an act of aggression towards another country in recent history . So what leads you to that assumption?

Also you mention Al-queda and Taliban...both were set up and funded by the U.S government. So get your facts straight.

If you think the U.S is partial, you probably don't follow politics. Every president that gets elected has to get up in front of AIPAC and promise them they will stay out of all of Israel's business. Also they have to keep the foreign aid flowing to Israel..billions every year, more than every other country combined. And they also have to turn a blind eye to the human rights violations Israel is committing. You brought Israel into this so why are you taking sides?

Mossad is a terrorist group ask all the children they kill.

There are atheists that would cut out your tongue if they had the chance, what's your point? Don't paint all arabs as backwards people that don't deserve to go to space because we wouldn't know how to read or count with out them...look up the origin of your alphabet.

The reality is that Iran is a developed country that has every right to protect itself and further it's scientific understanding. Anyone that thinks otherwise is out of touch.

@ALH

For the past few years the Iranian government has been developing cruise missile called shahabs that have a range capable of reaching places as far as Israel and Europe. They currently exist in three classes. Major media sources across the world, including the BBC reported on these developments back in 2007 and 2008. Regardless of the direct actions of the government, the indirect action of under the table money laundering and arms trafficking makes a pretty bold case for where you stand. I don't care if they haven't done anything to anybody we can't see. If you give money to thugs, and gangsters just because it's good for business, it doesn't mean you can wash your hands of whatever crimes they commit. You enable them to commit the crimes in the first place by sponsoring them in that fashion. Check out the Earlybird, CNN, The Washington Post, NY Times, and BBC. Better yet do a Google search for state funded terror worldwide and see what countries show up on the lists.

The Taliban and Al-Qaeda Organizations have origins that do not include establishment by the U.S. government. The Taliban was established as a means of resistance to communist influence in what eventually became the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. Al-Qaeda was established by Osama Bin Laden (whom himself is CIA trained) as a militia plight to rid the Arab world of outside influence from the West (or anyone else for that matter). The U.S. government is not responsible for establishing the pillars of Islamic extremism in South Asia. How does that sound to you? Think about. A Judaeo-Christian centric culture influencing Islamic extremism. That's a bit of a stretch, especially without any motivation to do so.

Regardless of what any politician gets on TV to say about anything doesn't mean one thing or another about government intent. Yes, we supply them regularly. We do that with all the nations we have some sort of alliance, or business relationship with (example: China). We also do look the other way when it comes to the conflict between them and the Palestinians because we'd rather not choose sides (BTW, I didn't indicate in any way that I am taking any side. That's their business. Like most Americans I could care less because I have more immediate issues of my own to worry about the plight of people thousands of miles away from me that I don't even know intimately).

You missed the point entirely. You're trying to preach and praise a group of people you probably have absolutely no personal experience with outside of the U.S. (this does not include Iranian Americans as they are American and sufficiently stand apart from the ideals and concepts of the Iranian people). You're also trying to save face for the people as a whole by denying that individuals of malcontent could not possibly exist in their society when video feeds and news reports on a semi-regular basis say otherwise.

I did not state that all Arabs are backwards nor did I say they shouldn't try to better themselves through scientific endeavors. You're putting words into my mouth and it's starting to piss me the #### off.

I also am not pretending I know what Ahmadenijiad wants. I know how to properly read context clues into possible and actual intent. These weapons (not products of science, WEAPONS) have a range specific to key points they would consider for engagement and I promise you none of them are in the Asian Pacific. If you have a neighbor that doesn't really like to speak to you for very long (or at all), all they do is leave or get into their house as quickly as possible or without so much as a word when you seem to approach, you don't have to read their mind to know that they don't like you. If you witness them purchasing weapons and you catch glimpses of them staring out their window towards your house incogneto, they probably mean to cause you harm if you move, look, or even breathe the wrong way.

Naive sentiment to thinking that the U.S. is bad and the poor underdeveloped (YES THEY ARE COMPARED TO US!) middle eastern arab countries are exploited and wronged is misplaced. Regardless of how much the former is true doesn't make it any different that those harboring resentment at the U.S. (whether rightfully or wrongfully placed) will and do take actions and make statements against the U.S. and the rest of Western (i.e. Europe) Civilization. African-Americans, Hispanics, and Latinos are disenfranchised in the U.S. on a case by case basis. I don't see you having sympathy for them. You'd probably hang on the sentiment that they're lazy or criminal.

See that's me putting words into your mouth, and it doesn't taste good, so don't do it to others. I don't mind the crazy theories and points of view, but don't pretend to be able to read anyone's mind or intent.

If Iran had our best interest in mind like Europe, Japan, Russia, and Canada do in these endeavors, I'd be more inclined to support them. But since they do not, whatever plight they have that does not directly effect us, I simply could care one way or another about. If the implications of their actions threaten us than my response in turn will be negative.

I'm not out of touch with reality. I'm just getting the impression that you don't like the U.S.

Pheonix1012, I am not putting words in your mouth, you said it yourself, something about thermal nuclear holocaust?? And you say you get your information from CCN and NY times??...LMAO. I’m not even going to get into why you are so mislead. Like I said a Zionists wet dream. I was just trying to figure out if you really believed the ignorance you were typing or if you were an unwilling pawn. It’s the latter, this is what happens when the country is spoon fed news from Zionist controlled media outlets, CNN, NY Times, these are lobbies for Israel….wake up.

Before you type and reveal your ignorance on the subject (not calling you ignorant, saying you are ignorant on the subject). Al-Queda was set up and funded by the U.S government…can’t you do a quick google search and find that out before posting? This is common knowledge. Berzezinski, Obama’s mentor, created Al-Queda from scratch and funded them in the 80’s and 90’s and up to 9/11. If you can’t concede that point there is really no point in speaking about this further. Also the U.S funded the Taliban and put them in power over the northern alliance, another puppet government they funded, read your foreign policy, not what NY Times chooses to report on. As to your point, yes, those who fund terrorists are terrorists, that means the U.S government are terrorists. Follow your own logic.

Then you say about Iran” I don’t care if they didn’t do anything.” So you are content to be spoon fed dis-info, like WMD’s in Iraq, but when no WMD’s are discovered, you have no problem with occupying this country, killing millions and stealing their resources? I can tell you are probably a teenager, so I hope you develop a conscience later on in life.

See you said you could care less because it doesn’t concern you..fine I’m okay with that you are just playing into the American stereotype. Where billions of your tax dollars are being funneled away to 1 country that is committing human rights violations and you couldn’t care less. But in the same breath you (by you I mean the propaganda outlets you are like parroting) will turn around and say we should invade Libya and Iran for human right violations??????….that’s called being a hypocrite.

Actually I do know Persians, my co-worker is from Iran..lol and I know they are not terrorists nor are the Iranian people, their government are trying to protect them.

If I had a neighbor that never spoke to me, not even saying “hi”. I would think they are weird. Everyone has a right to protect themselves, and if they have windows it’s their right to look out of them. It’s my right to buy a 12-guage to protect myself. But I certainly wouldn’t go over to their house and kill them and steal their furniture. But that’s exactly what the U.S is doing right now.
Stop backtracking….you said “Will muslim Arabs ever be able to journey into space?” Then went on a tirade about secular states…what do you think that implies? Follow your own logic. Don’t worry I’m sure some time long ago there were a bunch of Arabs sitting around “will the English ever be able to count”
Listen very carefully and you will learn something….you are getting your news from state funded propaganda outlets…that’s why when you hear about Iran going to space you have a knee jerk reaction that this is dangerous. In fact it is not dangerous; Iran has every right to protect itself, AIPAC is lobbying the U.S to invade Iran daily, and you think they don’t have the right to defend themselves?? Come on man!
I love the U.S and everything it stands for, especially the constitution and bill of rights. What I don’t like is a bunch of greedy, racist, fascist, nut jobs controlling foreign policy, (bilderburg, club of rome, comitte of 300, look into that) , murdering millions world wide, and just as bad, taking away the rights of the Americans and driving the average family into bankruptcy all the while becoming richer than ever. Holding back new technologies that will free the world of fossil fuels etc. Then I see smart young minds like yourself parroting their rhetoric like brainless sheep….yes it is VERY annoying, I wish you all would just wake up!
When I see comments like that, I will call you and who ever out on them… so don’t take it personally.

@ALH

Osama bin Laden established Al-Qaeda in 1988 as a measure to uplift the Islamic faith and remove Western influence from the Arab world. This Berzezinski you mention (which is a Polish name: Brzezinski) did not do this. bin Laden did not receive or seek assistance from the U.S. government to do this. The only indirect interaction that Osama would have had with the U.S. government would have been when the U.S. government provided assistance mujahideen leaders supporting the Pakistani military and the Inter Services Intelligence through money and weapons in support of Operation Cyclone during the Soviet War in Afghanistan during the Cold War. bin Laden's affront to the U.S. and the western world came from his belief that 'infidels' should not be allowed to desecrate their sacred soil. He appealed to the Saudi Arabian government to allow his mujahideen to assist in defending Saudi Arabia (as opposed to U.S. forces) against the possible advances of Iraqi forces that threatened Saudi security following their invasion of Kuwait in 1990. When the Saudi government rejected him and allowed U.S. troops to initiate Operation Desert Shield/Storm, bin Laden made a personal plight against the Saudis to the general public and began plotting against them and their affiliates (to include the U.S.).

The Taliban militia rose to power as a result of civil war in Afghanistan due to government division through the contradictory influences from Iran and Saudi Arabia which were competing for regional hegemony at the time. They succeeded in uniting Afghanistan under strict Sharia law. A plight that was contradictory to what Iran or Saudi Arabia would have wanted, as a united Afghanistan would pose a threat to their indirect imperialistic plights (similar to how France, Italy, Spain, and England played both sides of the U.S. Civil War).

The U.S. would not support an organization that would undermine economic prosperity of one of it's international fiscal partners (such as Saudi Arabia). Any U.S. intervention in a covert manner would only serve to strengthen Saudi Arabia's position in it's regional plight against Iran in helping to further destabilize the Afghani government that was in place before the Taliban.

The U.S. would also not support an organization that would directly threaten it or its global interest. Your implication that some mentor to the President falsely established a militant terroristic political group is baseless and illogical (and I don't mean that in a condescending way; I'm in a better mood today).

You also imply that the President also supports Al-Qaeda in it's plight to try and destabilize Western Society. Ask yourself this, how or why would the President have influence in two foreign radical organizations that were full established nearly a decade before he ever made a rise to political office? Barack Obama didn't become a 13th District Illinois Senator until 1997. The Taliban took over Afghanistan in 1994. Al-Qaeda manifest out of the mujahideen forces of the Soviet War in Afghanistan in 1988. That accusation doesn't make sense.

Don't be objective to everything you here on the News, and if you're going to look into conspiracy theories get the totality of the facts.

@phoenix1012 I’m going to help you connect the dots. You say I’m entertaining conspiracies..but I haven’t even gotten into conspiracy yet because you can’t even accept the facts. What I have said so far is fact, go look it up. You openly admit that Osama was a C.I.A asset. Where do you think he got his weapons from? Where do you think he got his funding from?

Zbigniew Brezezinski, it even says in his wiki that he was instrumental in turning Afghanistan from a progressive country to a militant country. He went in there and found backwards Islamic clerics in the outskirts of the country (in 1972 Afghanistan was a very modern progressive country)….and he funded these militants and armed them and brought them to power. And used them to fight the Russians…they were allies then. And they are still using Al-Qaeda today in Libya. It was Al-Qaeda that overthrew Gadaffi. So the U.S is still funding them up to this day…so to my earlier point the U.S funds terrorism. And nothing you can tell yourself can change that, because it is common knowledge. “Baseless and Illogical”…you are the one out of touch with reality.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8391632/Libya-the-West-and-al-Qaeda-on-the-same-side.html

Do you find it funny that our worst enemies, terrorists, are now our allies? The truth is that Al-Qaeda is an American asset. Whenever terror is needed to scare the sheep , or over throw a government….they will be there.

As for the Taliban, again..they were founded and funded by the U.S. It’s plain as day and you refuse to believe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzXIBOLejck
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/pak.htm

Do you now see why the truth movement is such a battle; people can’t even except the facts that are reported much less what is hidden. I have schooled you, but because of your ego you might not accept the facts I have presented.

Go broaden your research and find the truth..this is basic 101 stuff..the U.S created the paradime of the “Islamic Militant”….these Islamic terrorist did not exist 30 years ago, they were created by the U.S, in fact they were created by Obama’s mentor Brezenski, and now this is how Islam is looked upon by the world. Think about that. The U.S created them, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Now I’m going to get into why the U.S supports terror. It’s human psychology 101, we need an adversary, someone to unite us and someone that we can point a finger at and say “bad”, to make ourselves feel good. Hitler knew this that’s why he burned down the Reischstag. They also use it as a measure of control…because they have you in perpetual fear. Notice that Iran hasn’t come up once yet, because Iran has nothing to do with this other than the fact they are brown. And it’s pretty east to go from hating one brown person to another. Just like Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but they were still invaded.

I grew up in the 80’s….that was a time when the U.S.S.R could have destroyed us, they have (and still have) enough weapons to kill everything on earth. But we were taught not to be afraid, to be strong But now, kids are being to taught to be afraid and weak and give up their rights because of the “boogeyman” will get them. Can’t you see how this benefits the government? From invasion of privacy, to gun rights, to freedom of speech…but most important of all, the ability to spend tax dollars like a kid in a candy store.

I have provided you with links to documentation that U.S were INSTRUMENTAL, in creating the Taliban and Al-Queda. If you can’t concede the facts then, then keep living in your make believe world.

Also you keep using the word conspiracy….you do realize your country were created by a group of men that conspired for it don’t you? (maybe you don’t) In fact every major event in history was conspired for .conspiracy just means hidden plan. So in a way I am more like your founding fathers than the rest of the sheep.

Every fact you've presented I've done just the same. The only difference is that you say the U.S. directly established these organizations. The U.S. had no intervention in the Taliban's creation, just Al-Qaeda. Even then they were funding an insurgency that would undermine the communist rule in Afghanistan to set back Soviet global influence. Al-Qaeda didn't official exist until after Operation: Cyclone. bin Laden was fine with taking American support to defeat the Soviets but was a opposed to them setting foot in the Middle East (just plain ####ed up).

The Islamic militant paradigm exist in of itself through several years of exploitation from the U.S., Great Britain, France, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman and Byzantine Empires. The U.S. is not the sole creator of that concept. It's proper to say the U.S. (amongst others) is a motivator. The concept of holy war is as old as the Islamic faith itself. It's simple logic that human nature pushes people perceived to witness injustice (no matter what the point of view of the offenders) will violently rebel against such an injustice. Elijah Muhammad with the assistance of Malcolm X led large groups of muslims under the Nation of Islam in a plight against white supremacy in the U.S. during the Civil Rights movements of the 1950s and 60s. Their approach was definitely not non-violent.

What each nation's government does for its people or itself is in its own particular interest. We both have to concede the fact that Iran's endeavors primarily mean to serve itself and it's global interest the same as what we do.

No amount of good and bad that is done on either's part will take away from the simple fact that they're on that side and we're on this side. Any real threat any sovereignty, criminal enterprise, religious group/cult, or radical insurgent political movement poses against our nation is bad for everyone in general. Violence is indescriminant in warfare, and sympathizing with the plight of someone who stands on 'that side' wouldn't save you if you found yourself at the mercy (or lack thereof) of the barrel they're aiming at you. The same goes for your neighbor too.

Look at this list of animals - russian dogs and monkeys that sacrificed their lives for the advancement of human knowledge to know about the conditions in outer space :
www.liveoncampus.com/wire/show/3114464?utm_source=Blog&utm_medium=Seeding&utm_campaign=Ritu