Before the Raid, SEALs Rehearsed in a Full-Scale Replica of the Bin Laden Compound

Bin Laden was being hidden right under the noses of Pakistani's elite Military Academy so the suspicion that the Pakistani government was hiding Bin Laden all along has pretty much been proven.

And per Bush's statement "if you harbor a terrorist you are a terrorist" it remains to be seen what Obama does about this.

Personally, we should just find a sparsely inhabited region along the Afghan/Pakistan border visible from Islamabad and drop a nuke there with a warning that this will be your fate if you do it again.

People knew he was there, its the same kind of corruption/loyalty with the cartels in Mexico. Glad it was the SEALs that got him, as a Marine, I can admit those guys are the very best. I dont condone his quick burial according to his religion. Sucker should have been hung on the border to show everyone of his followers no matter how rich you are or how many people you know, we will hunt you down, and we will put 2 in your brain housing group.

Hats off to Seal Team Six! If I were president Id exempt them from taxes the rest of their lives.

I guess we will be seeing more SEALs movies after this. They really are the best at what they do. Extreme training, the best equipment and the best technology at their disposal.

Not to take anything away from this elite group, but it would have been nice to know that it was technology and high tech spy gadgetry, that brought him down though, being a technocrat and all.

What I found interesting in all this, again it is the SEALs that did all the work and deserve all the credit, but consider this: The President did all that he did in that weekend plus made a laughing stalk out of Trump without giving the slightest shred of evidence that something like this was about to transpire.

I guess it goes without saying, you don't want to mess with the Americans. They have everything already mapped out, literally, just waiting to send in the SEALs. All the while keeping a poker face.

So, from what I understand, It was Bin Laden, 2 couriers, and a woman they were using as a human shield who was killed.

Am I supposed to believe Seal Team Six couldn't handle arresting an old guy, an innocent woman, and 2 couriers?

Why on earth would we kill the figurehead of our biggest enemy and then dump him into the sea when we obviously had no need to do so? Why not capture him alive and get information from him, then turn him over to the Afghani's to hang.

Makes no sense to me... and I don't generally believe things that make no sense...

@B.V., careful now. The unwritten rule is to say what you mean... without saying what you mean.

@b.v
my guest is bringing him back alive would have been a huge mess, can you imagine how big of a prize he would be for some lawyer.
i rather believe the seal's put the cunt down on his knees and blow his head, still to quick of a death for him.

Amazing job to the seals and everyone else involved in the operation. This is amazing moral booster for the people or our country and people across the world. Let it be known that if you are a big enemy to the public you will be brought to justice.

Now that being said in response to b.v., it is much more complicated than you think. Do you think Osama wouldve surrendered? If you do you are insane. He also would not have ever given us any information seeing as this is a man that hates our country so much that he was willing to kill 3000 innocent civilians.

In response to others, while i think it is great that we finally killed him, it was completely right for us to dump his body in the ocean seeing as how that it part of his religion. The man is already dead, there is no need to disgrace his dead body. Put yourselves above the people in this world with no morals. Also, that would have created more terrorists bc people would have been upset bc we disgraced his dead body.

Finally, NO NUKES. That is just an immoral and irrational idea. Why would you want to create suffering and death for innocent civilians?

Great article!

This is well written, very concise and to the point! and in such a short turnaround

This is great news, only 1 trillion and over 100.000 lifes later US was able to kill one man.

We have killed many other terrorists high up in the chains of command and many more low ranking ones. However, I agree that the war was a waste of lives and money.

This is actually great news because we finally got the man we wanted worse. That money and lives lost would hurt even more if we didn't succeed in killing him.

9/11 was an inside job...and the science backs me up

http://www.ae911truth.org/

I am so surprised though...that they would do this. Make public his death...now who are the sheep going to be afraid off?

But no pictures or video of what happened, or pictures of him? They dump his body in the ocean...as to respect his Muslim beliefs?

This whole story is B.S

WAKE UP SHEEP!!

Good article except the part "every pixel of information". Why pixels??? Bits would make so much more sense.

@Aldrons Last Hope
Please shut up. The reason for the burial at see is to prevent Bin Laden's grave from becoming shrine to the Extremists. And, please look into Islamic traditions before you spew all your bullshit. It is a discredit to you. And pictures will be released, the US is not going to release info on a highly classified operation until they remove all sensitive data and information from it. And, we "sheep" are still "afraid" of Al-Queda. It does not end with Bin Laden. Bin Laden was just the Icon, just as you are for crazy conspiracy theories on this site. You remove the tip of the ice burg, you still have the rest of it.

Thank you colummcgaley. I swear that person believes every conspiracy theory he hears. In addition to what you have said, there are some videos and pictures of the house/ operation on other sites. Besides, reports say that he was shot twice in the head, so it may be hard to tell from pictures if it was actually osama bc of the mutalation. Lastly, if they were going to lie about killing him, why would they wait ten years?

@colummcgaley
I don't think we will ever know the whole story on this or 9/11. There are a lot of powerful people with a stake in our wars. There's a lot of people with a stake in keeping the military industrial complex well funded. I wouldn't put anything past the government at this point. I mean we went into Libia. We went into Iraq. We have been in afganistan when everyone knows that Al Qeada moved over to pakistan. Just remember this war gives a lot of people a lot of money.
@bob clemintime
I'm not saying i agree but they would keep the body for ten years because they would want people to still support the war, and keep the money rolling. Then say you found him at a time when foreign policy is a complete mess.

I truly believe that USA is not acting on my best interest. Americans are just looking for somebody to beat down in a true bullying fashion.
Honestly USA is a beacon of tyranny and not of freedom. USA can drink my farts.
Now you claim to be world police and want to be payed too. Booooh boooh boooh.
Stay inside your borders!

@ Aldrons Last hope, B.V.
So we meet again. You do know conspiracy theory was a fictional movie right........not everything is a conspiracy guys.

@highermorals
If it weren't for us terrible Americans, you would not have this site or the internet to complain on. lol

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy... just saying it doesn't add up. And if the whole thing was actually handled the way they claim... it's pretty disappointing.

As far as the whole "it would be complicated to capture him and put him on trial"... not really. We captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and are holding him in Guantanamo for the same crimes as Bin Laden. Somehow we've managed to do that... so why would it be any different with Bin Laden?

If they really did just shoot him in the head twice cause he didn't surrender, I think it's disappointing on many levels.

1) It makes the U.S. look like revenge-driven vigilantes instead of "justice" delivering people with higher moral standards than those of our enemies.

2) The best possible death for a "Jihadist" is to die in battle. By killing him we've made a martyr out of him... and have given ammunition to Al Qaeda to further operate.

I think it would have been much more advantageous to the U.S. to capture him alive, put him on trial in front of a military tribunal, and show the whole world that we actually adhere to our system of beliefs and ideas about justice and civility.

Finally, we could have let him rot in prison for the few remaining years he had left. This way there is no martyrdom, no virgins in heaven, no easy way out... just a lonely prison cell and this demoralizing message to the enemy:

If you are a terrorist, the U.S. will catch you, and you won't die an honorable death on the fast-track to heaven. You will be tried and imprisoned, and live out the rest of your days in the hands of those who are too good to resort to your level of petty violence and murder.

I'm not trying to minimize the amazing accomplishment here...just would have preferred to see a different approach.

@highermorals

why the the hell would the my nation be acting on your best interest.

@gravytrain,

TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

@gravytrain

you forgot racist baby eaters lol

Those buildings were brought down by controlled demolition...you would have to be blind and dumb to not see that. Nano thermite was found in the debris (do any of you know what that is?) Explosions were heard BEFORE the planes hit….and continued and was even reported on the first day. Google 9/11 coincidences it’s a 5hr documentary that proves that Nist is full of it, and that those 3 buildings were brought down by controlled demolition….someone please prove me wrong…if you can.

Again, Engineers and Architects agree with me.
http://www.ae911truth.org/

Please check that site out...it's on behalf of the victim’s family of 9/11. (most of you could care less about them)

If anyone believes that they killed Osama yesterday and threw him in the ocean....you are actually done for...you are in the mindset of 1984. He is much more valuable alive...not just from an information standpoint (he apparently outsmarted the whole of NORAD command). Osama is not a martyr...he was a tool of the C.I.A, he does not speak for Islam or the middle east. He was a willing pawn in the 9/11 scam, and he will have to answer for his part in this atrocity.

Look at all that was gained from 9/11....the U.S has taken away the privacy rights of everyone...torture is legal; you get all that Iraqi oil. my God the list goes on and on and on. Carlyle group has made billions. The pipeline under Afghanistan has been built and is running; the U.S.A now controls the world heroin supply…etc. etc. 9/11 benefited the neo-cons.

I did see the movie conspiracy theory...and it's very interesting...the hero (Mel)...knows something what the sheep doesn't. But he is presented as flawed, schizoid and damaged. He doesn't even get the girl. What is hollywood trying to tell the sheep?...it's better to be a retard (Forrest Gump) than to be aware of the truth. Just go along with everything.

I know 9/11 was an inside job %100...and I'm a total sane, family man, with a career and a nice house....so there! That conspiracy theorist stereotype that all the sheep have in their mind is an archetype that Hollywood put there. Stop being mind controlled.

@Colummcgaley you shut up sheep! You say you are still afraid…why doesn’t that surprise me? Please go look at your history…your founding fathers did not liberate you from the crown so you can be scared little sheep….you take your freedom for granted while others are willing to fight and die for it (your military)….keep being afraid and praying to Obama to protect you from the boggie man. You need the bible…for there is nothing to fear except fear itself. You are willing to give up all your rights, and laws and morals, just so the boggie man doesn’t get you?? Grow a pair!

And to everyone that says bomb Pakistan…LMAO…Pakistan is the one who allowed the U.S gov’t to operate in their territory.

Osama died a long time ago…they just rolled out his body now cause Obama’s approval rating is down, and his birth certificate is fake.

@gravytrain....it's not all americans, it's the ruling elite...I was in Chicago in March...I met some of the nicest most sincere people that I have ever met...I made friends within 5 minutes, and I’m talking white, Hispanic, black. That goes for New York, Florida, Texas...I wish they would just stand up against their government which is out of control right now. And sooner or later will turn on them. To all you americans...don't lose your 2nd amendment rights..cause when you do you are done.

@Alderons Last Hope,

Do YOU even know what nano thermite is? LOL! Take it from me, a combat engineer who blows up bridges and buildings and I've seen what the damage looks like up close. When looking at the wreckage of the twin towers it is very obvious to me that explosives WERE NOT USED to take out the support. First, the amount of explosives that would have been needed to take out those buildings is alot. We are talking thousands of pounds of C4. And I know you are going to say that they used the nano thermite but that is not the case. Nano thermite is very sensative to electro static discharge, it is considered to be unstable for the most part. Nano thermites are out of the question, it's just not a viable option when you demo a building.

Secondly since when does explosives cut metal cleanly like I've seen in the photos? ----\ /----- thats the best represntation I can give you over text. The ends of metal pieces bend in opposite directions because when you cut metal bars with explosives you back the explosives on opposite sites of the metal to create a pushing effect=heat and pressure thus causing the metal to sear. It never cuts cleanly. You know what does cut cleanly? High amounts of weight stacked on top of a metal surface that experiences a stress fracture from kiinetic energy. See where I'm going with this? Vibrations from the impact of the plane caused stress fractures in the metal support beams and the weight of the building seared the metal cleanly.

Lets not forget that these metal beams are packed all the way around with conrete. So to even get to the metal you would have to drill holes into it then load it with C4. Lots of C4. You mean to tell me that the security didn't notice people drilling holes into the support and then loading hundreds upon hundres of punds of C4 into the support?

And for all the hundreds if not thousands of people that would be required to carry out an operation of that magnitute and yet not a single one has spoken up? I'm sure all of that would weigh on at least one persons conscience.

What pipes under Afhanistan do you speak of? You do know that Afhanistan has a sea of mountain landscape don't you? You mean to tell me that pipes have been layed under the mountains in Afghanistan? Or that all this construction took place in the middle of all the fighting, road side bombs and dangerous mines that are littered all over the place? You have got to be the most gullible man on the planet. I have ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you. It really exists! The government has purposely altered all the maps to make you think it doesn't but it does. It's all a money making scam! A conspiracy!

Too many holes in the theory. But no matter how much truth and proof there is to refute your bogus claims you will always think you are right and that we are the sheeple.

Just curious Aldron, what country do you live in? In addition, be careful as to what assumptions and insults you make because there are often people who are far more experienced then you in their field and they know the truth first hand. Ahh im falling right into your trap. O well, have fun with all your little conspiracy theories, I prefer to believe the truth.

Nicely done army juggernaut. In addition, it is ridiculous to say that we are taking Afghan opium. Are you stupid? We have been trying to teach farmers to grow crops besides opium, so that they can have a better lifestyle where they grow food crops so that they don't starve. Don't believe me? Ask people who are in the military or are doing community service in Afghanistan, they will tell you the truth.

@B.V.
The SEALs killed him in a fire fight as they were trying capture him. Two shots to the left eye sounds like something that would happen with fighting. It sounds even more likly if he was using a human sheild so about all you have is his head to hit. The SEALs buried Bin Laden at sea in line with his religious beliefs. I think that doing that was more than he should have goten but if they hadn't it might have been used by people like him to again say we are evil people with no honor. I thonk this is about as good as something like this could happen in real life.

@Army Jugernaut do you know what nano-thermite is?
You say the damage at ground zero doesn't look like the work of explosives...that is a lie. Pulverized concrete is proof of explosives.

You say that explosives cannot cut vertically or horizontally

http://www.youtube.com/user/ae911truth?blend=23&ob=5#p/u

I just proved you wrong.

You say that explosives were not used to take out the base.
Here is a witness that was honored by G.W Bush. This man is a hero and the reality of what he speaks of on 9/11 is too much for the sheep to comprehend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC0Kl4TKoU

Proved you wrong AGAIN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIC0Kl4TKoU

What did you say about security at WTC? Funny you ask, this link will show you the security firm in charge of WTC and Dulles airport...was none other that G.W Bush's brother Marvin. Also "renovations" were taking place months before 9/11, including a complete shut down of security cameras the week before 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHJHAp49Lh8

Wrong again army.

What pipeline? Have you ever heard of UNOCAL??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/sardi7.html

If anyone believes the pipeline that UNOCAL lobbied congress for is a conspiracy...get your head out of your ass and read a book!!

Proved you wrong AGAIN

BTW you mention jet fuel and the impact of planes...what plane hit WT7? For it collapsed the same way.

Army please open your eyes. You are the gullible one. Also steel melts at over 2000 degrees, jet fuel burns at 900 degrees...what produced the molten steel gushing out of WTC seen here? Anyone? Come on this is a science blog, I would like a scientist to tell me how 900 degree heat produces 2000 degree molten steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmuzyWC60eE

And what caused molten concrete and metal to pool at the base of all three towers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RhdBxEe_6M

Listen man, there is so much info out there on this..that you shouldn't need me to shepherd you. CNN, ABC, FOX, are owned by the global elite...to find the truth you have to look for it.

@bob clemintine..."nicely done" are you serious?..you are a friggin sheep that has no idea. Heroin production has gone up since the U.S took over the operation...in fact the Taliban burned all the poppy fields prior to 9/11 in defiance of the U.S position of the pipeline.

Have you ever heard of the Iran Contra scandal? That is a conspiracy that was proven true. The biggest drug dealer in the U.S is the C.I.A. Here is a link the shows that the U.S is overseeing heroin production in Afghanistan

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4999323-500803.html

My home is the world, My religion is to do good.

BTW this is not me floating weather balloons like the "moon" threads...I know with every part of my being that 9/11 was an inside job, and I will prove anyone wrong who tries to argue with me like I have done thus far. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 is just one group that I look to for answers, mainly because they employ the scientific method..and their case is air tight. So all you sheep wake up...it's not an insult, I was asleep too, but 9/11 woke me up.

of..of..o-of....of of...of of.....

@Aldrons Last Hope

You are lost. The last link clearly shows how desperately you cling to conspiracies. You used the word oversee in a way that is completely inconsistent with the information in the link itself. The article states they flew "over" and they could "see" the poppy fields but that does not mean the US is overseeing the poppy fields and it certainly does not prove your ludicrous theory that the US is boosting heroin production.

You bait your argument with unrelated information and it shows that your intention is to build a foundation of corruption and conspiracy. This is deception at its finest. You cannot simply lump together other half-baked conspiracies and use them as the foundation for another conspiracy for the simple fact that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Your 9/11 conspiracy facts are pure fiction as well.

Jet fuel can burn at temperatures as high as 1800 degrees. Steel will lose 50% of its strength at 1500 degrees. The steel skeleton of the building was the primary support system and loss of 50% of strength in the steel would cause the structure to collapse. That is just basic engineering fact.

Pulverized concrete is not a sign of demolition. It is a sign of extreme pressure and we can certainly assume that 110 floors of steel and concrete would exert extreme amounts of pressure on concrete as they collapsed and would turn concrete into a powder. Concrete is not nearly as strong as you think it is.

Compressive loads cause heat so a crumpling steel structure would generate heat and could therefore weaken, deform, etc without any other devious activities having taken place.

As for you thermite nonsense. What is thermite? It's typically an aluminum and iron oxide mix. Gee... Where would you find aluminum and rust in a building? Uh... Everywhere. It's easy to find the components of thermite in steel buildings and just because you do see them it doesn't mean it was thermite.

I'm surprised you didn't break out the non-fact that the towers were designed to take an impact from a 747. A plane, BTW, that was not in existence when the towers were designed. Trust me, I have seen truthers try to state that "fact" as well.

All of the issues with the collapsed towers were fully explained and follow straightforward engineering knowledge. I can only assume based on your remarks that you do not understand engineering or physics and possibly not even gravity and free fall so I can't blame you for not grasping what the rest of us can see.

The last fact is plain. Bin Laden took credit for it. What else do you need to hear?

Actually the opium production was halved in Afghanistan in 2010 due to a disease in the plant. But yes of course opium production would increase when another country invades and destroys much of your existing infrastructure. The opium makes the crop growers much more money than food crops so naturally that is what people will want to grow. However, the US and independent organizations are trying to reduce farmers dependence on opium to make a living. Changing the lifestyles of people in a country is not an easy thing to do.
Also your link actually proves me right as it says that the US is pushing for the farmers to grow new crops.

Here is the answer to your questions on steel.
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

caygill

Break out a dictionary look up the word hyperbole...

@bob clemintime

Good points and an interesting link. Thanks

O well I see that smpdawg already hit my main points. He is dead on. Also, why should anyone believe a person who thinks the moon landing was faked, and obama's birth certificate is faked, and who believes that the invasion in Iraq was due to 911 (really we invaded on the pretense of WMD, however we truly wanted their oil, and im getting tired of going on im gonna stop now

wow. what a pile of BS. i dont believe a word of it. this was all scripted. this is all part of the illuminatis agenda. osama dies the same date as hitler? OBAMA kills OSAMA. its not all just coincidence. this is one big poorly done plot and the sheep are falling for it.

@smpdawg...You are either ignorant or a liar.

I notice how you steer clear every other link, the one about nano-thermite, the testimony of William Rodriquez, the Afgan Pipeline. You choose to dwell on opium production with vague arguments and no facts.

Here is a link of actual firefighters on 9/11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kanj8gx4E1M

Here is a city worker and actual survivor of wtc 7 that speaks to the demolition of wtc 7 (not office fires)His name is BARRY JENNINGS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LO5V2CJpzI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbbZE7c3a8Q&feature=related

You do not know what nano-thermite is...your juvenile explanation of it proves your ignorance. Nano-thermite is a sophisticated explosive developed by military labs. NANO-PARTICLES were found throughout NYC as seen here..

http://investigate911.org/

Now thermite, nano-thermite or even thermate does not magically form in buildings. They do not compose themselves from aluminum and rust in buildings. You do not understand chemistry if you think this is the case. If they did buildings would spontaneously burst into flames LMAO

I call straw man with the 747 comment. But you are good at debunking your own statements not mine.

"Pulverized concrete is not a sign of demolition"

Um yes it is...and if you've ever watched the wtc collapse...you will notice pulverized concrete being thrown outwards from the building as seen here..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFz9TZUyIZk&feature=related

I'm not sure you understand physics, or structural engineering. An object will always fall through the path of least resistance. WTC 1,2,7 fell straight down, at free fall speeds as seen here. I hope you understand this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

Now understand that falling through it's structural skeleton, is not the path of least resistance...if the steel was weakened by the fires (which they were not), the buildings would not, could not fall straight down.

Next time acknowledge William Rodriguez, and all the firefighters that said the fires were cooling and were calling for more hoses.

@Bob Clementine

I never said anything about "weakened steel" I said MOLTEN STEEL and even the link you left does not begin to acknowledge molten steel.

Here is a link speaking to Foreign involvement of opium production

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2011/04/19/afghan-mp-unveils-western-forces-involvement-in-drug-trafficking.html

You haven't begun to debunk anything I said, there's a reason why it's called 9/11 truth....you can't debunk truth

The irony is this, that all those that believe that 9/11 was an inside job are the sheep. There is too much concrete evidence that suggests otherwise. The physics, the science, the "presence of nano-thermites", all disagree with what youre saying. Juggernaut is absolutely correct, nano thermites are extremely sensitive to ESD, static cling can detonate under the right circumstances. And why in God's name would our country attack ITSELF when at some point down the line things are going to HAVE to be declassified. IF true evidence existed the media would have long ago latched on, do you not remember that we are not run by despots and the WWW is available to much of the known world. Wouldn't SOMEONE have come forward with REAL testimonial? Its been 10 years, if the jihadists had the information that you state that they have and had been working in conjunction with US officials, they would have toppled our "capitalist regime" with that sort of information. Unless the conspiracy kooks can get verification from the horses mouth that the Taliban was hired by the US government (aside from the clandestine attacks we hired/equipped them to carry out against the russians so long ago) let it go. You come of as insensitive, unpatriotic, and frankly a little ridiculous. A lot of you have very valid opinions that I frequently agree with, and a lot of valuable insight. But you invalidate those useful, insightful comments with drivel like this. On Sept 11 our country was attacked, thousands of lives were needlessly lost. Families were left without fathers, mothers, children and brothers. Every member of our country of every creed/class/color was deeply wounded. It may have taken us 10 years to hunt down the roodypoo that did it, but GOD BLESS THE AMERICAN SOLDIER WHO PUT TWO BULLETS IN HIS BRAIN MATTER. You would only feel the same way if one of YOUR family members had gone down in the tower, its a psychological principle called CLOSURE. Look it up.

@phoenix Then explain why nano-thermite was found at round zero?

You speak of the victims family...when the actual families of 9/11 victims are demanding a new investigation. As seen here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtU69oWVNJY
http://rememberbuilding7.org/press-releases/

I have shown you actual footage of 9/11 survivors, firemen, now links to victims family sites that know it was an inside job. And you still choose to reflect your fragile sheep mind...or I should say project your fragile sheep mind onto them. They were there, they lost family, they want a new investigation because the 9/11 commission was bogus.You don't know what you are talking about. I highly doubt you looked at any of the links I posted (pearls before swine).

This is not closure for the victims families, they are to this day fighting for closure against their corrupt government. This is closure for sheep like you that was psy-oped on 9/11. BE GONE SHEEP!~

Osama wasn't killed May 1st (same day as hitler)...he was killed a long time ago. The. U.S would not have thrown his body in the ocean for any reason...to believe they were paying respect to him is foolish.

@Aldrons Last Hope
So i got a quick question, was there an explosive (C4, syntex whatever) charge, or a themite cutting. Because they cause to different effects, powdered concrete and molten steel. Now if you go with option C both, i have to ask, how much of each would it take to cause said effect, then i would ask, how many people would it take to place both charges. Then after the paid fake hijackers crashed the planes into the building how did the charges not go off. Usually with these charges they have det cord attached to the charges which are heat and pressure sensitive. So when the plane struck they should have all gone off right?

When i first heard and saw these conspiracies I def. left a shred of doubt in my mind. And I like to believe i am rational. But after hearing the rebuttal to the explosives theory removed that doubt. How much would it cost, how many people would be involved, paying all those people off.
Tell me it was a military operation. The first thing any military personnel would say if they were told they were going to blow up the WTC is "why"? These are people who are trained not to ask "why?".

If it were anybody else they would have to ask for a ton of money. These things leave trails, even in the CIA, NSA, anyother black ops three letter groups. This thing would have been planned for year. Look how long it took to take Bin Laden out, what almost a year. For an almost simple strike and kill. Yes it had its complications but nothing like this. Your looking atleast 5 yrs planning. And Bush was doing this outside his Presidency, as Gov. of Texas? So where's Bush's millions/billions he was supposed to make from this big scheme? Yeah hes got money, but show me an Ex-President who doesn't? How about Chaney? Bush's brother? or any other company that was envolved? Where s the Oil money? I don't see any huge company getting rich off it? Is see OPEC getting rich off there own oil fields?

Those said explosions that are heard before the collapse. you ever break a 2X4. Whats it sound like? A gunshot maybe if you weren't looking. How about a dumptruck tailgate slamming aginst itself. I shoot a lot. And everytime i here it i jump because i think some one shot a round off. Now whats a a couple hundred steel Ibeams soud like when they snap. They snap because they are weak, notmelted (yet) I would say like a big friggin bomb just went off.

Just some questions! :)

@B.V.
The reason he was killed was not because they could take him alive, it was because it was a kill order. The US didn't want take him alive for fear of AQ (Al Queda) taking hostages and threaten to blow up something for his return. Instead killing him and disposing of him quickly and in the way they did it work very well politically. I think maybe an unmarked grave somewhere might have worked but the word might have gotten out sometime. The one con to this is that conspiracy theorists will(and allready have) started to think that it didn't happen.

As to him dying as a mytyr(sp?), i think the fact that he as hiding behind a women for self defense ended that thought quite quickly. Plus martyrs die in the cause, not because they got hunted down and killed in hiding. Now if he pulled a died in a hail of gunfire, holding a AK in each hand and tossing grenades with his feet, yeah he might have been a myrtyr(SP?). Other wise i think the team that did it, did it very well.

@kokofan50,

He was not armed and it was not during a firefight. They asked him to surrender and he refused. Then they shot him.

This was clarified recently by the white house.

@Ianredneck,

If it WAS a kill order, what sort of message does that send to everyone else? That the head of state can order your execution without a trial or any reasonable means to dispute your charges? And that the U.S. will ignore the sovereignty of other nations to carry out it's illegal executions?

Doesn't matter if it was for a "terrorist" or an "enemy combatant"--those are just labels which can be assigned to anyone the commander in chief wants to kill.

I think it's a very dangerous precedent to set, and a very dangerous direction to go in for the U.S.

RE: the hostages, etc. Again, we have captured and held/interrogates the mastermind behind 911... and have done so publicly and without fear of repercussions.

If we start acting in specific ways to avoid terrorist attacks (by killing instead of capturing and putting on trial war criminals)... then the terrorists have won. That's the goal of terrorism, man, to scare people into acting the way you want them to.

What's next? Are we going to make Islam the state religion? Take away women's rights? These things would also go a long way to reduce the chances of a terrorist attack by Al Qaeda...

@B.V.
I was wrong. The info I had was wrong. What can I say other than this happens with this kind of thing.

@ B.V.
Actually enemy combatant is a very important title, giving during a time of war (which we are in and in war against him)would give soldiers the legal right, by the geneva convention, to engage in combat. If a person is a combatant and poses danger through the esclation of force then the soldier has the right to engage. But Bin Laden at the time was not a combatant. I acknowledge that fact. But killing him was the lesser of two evils. Capture him and risk further attacks. Kill him dispose of him. And reduce the retaliations (not entirely just less so). In the first Golf War we dropped bombs on Saddam's palace in an attempt to kill him. We offered surrender to him he declined continued to hide and fight. So we bombed him. If we killed him in his palace whats the real difference between the two. We could have captured him true. Brought him back for trials that would have taken at the very least another decade. At the least! All the while( in my opinion not a statement of fact) multiple attempts and retalitory strike would have been made against us. Yes retaliation still may occur, but there is less of an incentive. Would I have liked to see him stand trial and account for his crimes. Hell yes. But not at the cost of more American lives.

I don't think that terrorist intents are to have us track them down and kill them. The true intent of most terrorists is to "terrify", notice the word play, into keeping us from doing the things we do. I.E. influence western culture on the rest of the world, expanding our interests outside our country. I don't believe there intent is for us to become harshers and kill them.

yes we have captured other terrorists but nothing on this scale. All the rest have been lower than him. He is a symbol. Less of a leader but a symbol. Symbols are much more powerful than flesh.

I have to disagree on the precedent being set. I think it is very effective and much needed. I know I sound like a chest thumping idiot but, if you attack us on our home soil, and our civilians at that, there will be no place to hide and no quarter given.

Yes it sounds awful but it might make people think twice. and maybe just maybe break this mysticism that the US fall to Jihad and that some terrorist may lose heart and leave it.

@ianredneck you say that arguments as to why the demolition was not a collapse have convinced you...I ask what arguments?...saying "it would be too big of a job and complicated" is barley an argument, and does not deliver any evidence.

Check this link out..it speak to BILLIONS of tiny metal spheres found in WTC dust...these spheres were the result of intense heat which is a typical result of incendiaries reacting with steel...also you will see very credible people including your own government questioning 9/11. You will also see twisted, bent steel beams...don't believe jet fuel bent these beams; most of the jet fuel was burned on impact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eyHDFVuxwM
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/residues.html

I would also like to know why the government was in such a hurry to destroy all the evidence as show here....they shipped 50 thousand tons over to china on the cheap.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

I also have previously shown that nano-thermite was found in the dust

http://investigate911.org/

This isn't a "theory" It was found in the dust, this stuff is manufactured by the military, you cannot make this in your basement. All we want to know is how it got there.

Here is a link showing MOSSAD's military involvement in 9/11..the NYPD actually found these guys with a van full of explosives, video taping 9/11 events as it happened. You will see Powell dogging questions about them and why they were released and flown back to Israel. The U.S military didn't do this, MOSSAD and the NEO-CONS did this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5f4fbknkD4

I have also shown that security at WTC was run by a Bush, this gave them the time and access to place the 1000's of tons of explosives that were needed to explode the towers.

You also asked who is profiting from 9/11

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3309.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlyle_Group

They have made billions.

As far as explosions going off...I already posted a link of Willie Rodriguez; a true blue hero of 9/11 that speaks to explosions going off in the building BEFORE the planes hit

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294#

Here is a link of George Gallowy blasting congress about the oil they were stealing unmetered in the first months of the Iraqi war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdFFCnYtbk

You are asking questions and this is good, please do your own research, and once your eyes have been opened, wake others. But to everyone who wants to debate with me on this subject, come correct and don't bring childish foolish arguments with no proof like what has been offered up thus far because as I have shown I have 9/11 firefighters, witness, victims family, structural engineers, and architects, as well as demolition experts (we can get into that later) & thelaws of physics on my side.

@Ianredneck,

"Actually enemy combatant is a very important title, giving during a time of war (which we are in and in war against him)would give soldiers the legal right, by the geneva convention, to engage in combat."

In the U.S. only Congress has the power to declare "War".

It has not done so--therefore the military operation in Pakistan was NOT part of any legally sactioned war.

What we have in the U.S. is a "war" on nouns. "war" on terrorism, "war" on poverty, "war" on drugs, etc.

These are not legal Wars--they are just B.S. rhetoric made by politicians who do not have the power to declare a real War.

However, this rhetoric has so gripped out minds that we believe we are actually fighting legal Wars against legal enemy combatants.

If this were the case, the President could send SEAL Team Six to put 2 into your cranium the next time you light up a joint because you're an "enemy combatant" in the "war on drugs"--and it would be easier to just kill you rather than arrest you, hold you in jail, deal with attorneys petitioning for your release, etc.

Not the type of fascist military police state I'd want to live in...

------------

re: "I don't think that terrorist intents are to have us track them down and kill them."

Actually, it kind of is. Al Qaeda's general outline is this:

1) set up terrorist cells in middle eastern countries
2) execute terrorist attacks to draw the U.S. into more military engagements
3) await the financial collapse of the infidels from having more military commitments than they can pay for

Their goal is to bleed us to death using our fear. They can spend $2,000 to orchestrate a failed terror attack (like the "printer toner bomb" recently) and the U.S. responds by jumping through their hoops and spending BILLIONS on new security protocols and screening methods.

@Aldrons Last Hope
All wars have profiteers as does peace.
Profit is happening some where(usually, and god bless capitalism)

Those metals balls, made of steel or Aluminum?
If Aluminum thats an easier answer, the fires could easily have gotten that hot. If steel there is an answer to that. After the collapse the heat inside the rubble. Deep down could have gotten hot enough to melt steel. Here is a link explaing some of it. I need to verify it myself. But it seemed fairly credible.

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

Talking about the reaction of steam and steel.

"saying "it would be too big of a job and complicated" is barley an argument, and does not deliver any evidence."

And yes it is barely an argument, but so is, that it just happened, show me where the money came from,
where the people came from, where the explosives came from. Wheres your evidence of the plot that would have taken at the very least 10 yrs.

To the bended steel beams
Steel loses a large portion of its strength with half the heat. Leave a candle outside on a hot day, 100 deg.ish
and you can bend it instead of breaking it, the fires easily could warp the steel.Theres a lot more in that fire than fuel as well, like furniture. On and a thousands of tons of rubble will bend steel too.

As to the thermite/thermate, was there any traces of the byproducts aluminum oxide(not to be confused with regular aluminum) or barium nitrate?
And does that Report by Mr. Jones report traces of thermate/thermite compounds (iron, aluminum, potasium, etc.) or actaully thermite/thermate becasue there is a distinct difference

And actually it can be made in your basement, its a little hard to do, and not as effective as the real stuff but it is possible. Just need the right ingredients.

To the Bush security, again did he profit of this. If so i don't see it. And he would have had to been planning this before he got elected.

@ B.V.
Well there is a couple things wrong with the "war" statements. There is a declaration of war, on terrorist and terrorism. Which was passed through congress. Yes, Pakistan is not a country or entity that falls underneath that title (yet) but OBL was, and was acted on according to that declaration.

"If this were the case, the President could send SEAL Team Six to put 2 into your cranium the next time you light up a joint because you're an "enemy combatant" in the "war on drugs"--and it would be easier to just kill you rather than arrest you, hold you in jail, deal with attorneys petitioning for your release, etc."

As to the other statement that those are not wars you correct. And as to the above statement, the federal gov. even congress, cannot engage soldiers into active combat situations inside the US, except during times of Martial Law, and/or defending the US from invasion. The only military units allowed to operate in the US are Guardsmen which can only be activated by the Gov. of said state and operate in said state. So no worries of SEALs busting in your door. And since those other "wars" were not declared by congress no worries of being a combatant.

And as I stated originally the true reason why it would be difficult to hold OBL is a security issue, people could die. Not something i am willing to risk.

@Ianredneck,

Can you provide a source for the declaration of war on terror/terrorism?

As far as I am aware, congress only authorized the president to use force against those whom he determines had a connection to 9/11 (which I guess provides legal cover for taking out OBL)... but doesn't sit well with me by any means since it seems like too much power in the hands of one person.

I think there is just a huge disconnect between what the letter of the law is, what actually happens in practice, and what the media reports. And I think that is absolutely the case here (which is why it sounds so unbelievable to me).

--

re: "as I stated originally the true reason why it would be difficult to hold OBL is a security issue, people could die"

It would be much easier to hold him if everyone believed he was already dead and floating in the ocean somewhere... ;)

--

re: "So no worries of SEALs busting in your door"

This is true--the U.S. (luckily) has a pretty awesome system of checks and balances which currently make it illegal for this to occur. :)

My point is simply that both politicians and the media do a poor job at communicating the actual laws in effect and leave citizens vulnerable to having their rights stripped away as a result of the doublespeak.

@ianredneck here is another link showing speaking to mossad activities on 9/11 "tons of explosives" is a telling statement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKj6uJ5Mt4&feature=related

The spheres were a result of molten steel. The iron rich spheres are not made of aluminum

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/residues.html

Office fires cannot bend steel, the typical office fire burns at 300 in the open air. When you put a cast iron pot in a 400 degree oven, does the pot become pliable? Does it bend? No it does not. Here is a link speaking to the math involved of jet fuel burning in the wtc.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/how-hot.htm

After you do the math or understand the math, you will see it's laughable to think that jet fuel bent thousands of tons of steel. It's absolute lunacy to believe that 3000 gallons of fuel, most which burned in the open air seconds after impact, caused the collapse of over 50,000 tons of steel. Also in the link above is testimony from survivors that were close to the impact zone, and were trapped there. Now if the heat didn't kill them, how could it weaken steel?

Your question about office fires. No steel structure in the HISTORY of skyscrapers has EVER collapsed due to fire. WTC 7 was not hit by a plane, was not engulfed in flames, in fact the firefighters & police were having a coffee break on the 8th floor minutes before the collapse. (before they were told to get out) WTC 7 was a controlled demolitian as seen here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk

The debunking website is calling steel aluminum. Many people will try to lead you away from the truth, NIST & FEMA.

NANO-THERMITE cannot be made in basements.....thermite yes, thermate yes, but NOT nano-thermite.

Before we get into G.W.....I want to define conspiracy.

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2009/04/nanothermite-demolishes-911-conspiracy.html

Check out how much money the Bush's made off of 9/11 via their family business Haliburton. BILLIONS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton

Money was not the only motive behind the Sept.11th attacks. The attacks were the first step towards a new world order that Bush Sr spoke on in a national address exactly 10 years earlier. The motive was to take over oil supplies in the middle east, including Iraq, Iran, and eventually Saudi Arabia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxz06SwfnlU

The project for the new American century is a neo-con think tank...that lays out plans for endless wars and world domination....but there was a problem pre 9/11...the American public, living in a time of peace and prosperity would not go go for this w/o "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new pearl harbor"

Now if you think the neo-cons won't kill their own civilians...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4242016437813472857#

Here you have a declassified documents that calls for the murder of american citizens as a pretext to invade cuba. But JFK stopped them. No one stopped Rumsfeld, or Cheney though. I think G.W Bush was just a puppet, but his dad and his cronies (rumsfeld, cheney)were directly responsible.

One last thing. Dick Cheney was in command of NORAD the morning of 9/11, the first time in History that that command was given to someone who wasn't in the military. Also they were acting out simulations of hijacked planes hitting the WTC....what a coincidence..or maybe it was planned that way Dick gave the stand down order and let all the planes hit...previously all planes flying of course in u.s airspace were intercepted within 5 minutes. On 9/11 4 planes flew unmolested for more than an hr.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9202883730425098020#

@B.V.
So...I lied it wasn't a declaration of war but a congress approved extend military action that stated the action against Afgahn, and Al Qaeda Specifically, and OBL being the head of that. So the act was still legal correct.

@ Aldrons Last Hope
Of course my cast iron skillet at 400 degrees won't warp, even steel made from those support beams at 600 deg. won't warp.....unless they are put under pressure, say the weight of the building plus the added weight of fully loaded 767. Then thats when it warps, my candle won't warp unless i take it and bend it. With all these situations in the environment is really that unlikely that steel beams will bend under 50-60 of its melting temperature?

The "mossad" agents in trucks. I have a hard time believe these guys are Mossad!! men and women that rival our SEALS, or any other paramilitary group we have, are riding around in trucks depicting the attack? Why? Trained in covert ops, trained to hide in plain sight yet there they are in a van saying hey! here i am!! Idiots and potential terrorists that got away in a attack to rival Pearl Harbor. Very much so. No where in that "film" did i see anything about mossad.

As to the money, and Haliburton. So GWB owns an oil company...from Texas.....It like saying its hard to believe a person from Maine owns a timber company. Did he profit of it. Hell yeah, he probably did. Did he plan it for money. One man. Running this kind of scam and no one turned on him? No one? Really? This this big do not go unnoticed. You point to this fact with the Bay of Pigs. Some one found out!!!! But ten years later nothing? Not likely.

I still don't have any problem, with see iron/steel melting somewhere in this situation. Some where some steel somehow melted. Not a problem to me. This event had more unknown circumstances, and situations than either you or I can comprehend. With the steam and iron reaction causing increased temperature, and the smog, smoke and dust still rising, and since these samples were taken three days later i can see how, these sphere were created after the tower fell, and where then carried to these sample points. Kinda disappointed in the information of the sampling though. How many locations, Where they were, exact dates for all samples used, and on each sample whether these spheres were found at each site. I have written papers like this and that is what i would have done.

haven't heard that last part before. would like to hear the other side of the story first. (cause there is always another story :))

@Aldrons Last Hope and BV, shut the f#ck up you dumb a$$ trolls

@aldron

Because calling everyone sheep will ALWAYS make them believe you rather than make them hate you even more!

@Ianredneck,

Yeah, killing OBL was legal according to the law of the U.S. However, crossing into the territory of another sovereign country and taking out residents is grey-area at best.

I mean, how would you feel if Mexico's military swept into TX to kill some drug dealers or blow up a weapons factory without even telling anyone in the U.S.?

Sure, Pakistan isn't a very powerful country, so we can kinda do whatever we want there...but still, precedent set.

Aldrons Last Hope - supporting your paranoid delusions via wikipedia and YouTube video links isn’t the best way to present evidence or to raise your creditability factor…rofl.

But to be honest, I’m not angered by you. I actually feel kinda sorry for you.. sort of the way I feel when I see a homeless man or a limping stray dog. It must be taxing to live a life surrounded by such fear and paranoia!

Being unable to process reality must make it hard to hold a job and have friends too. Am I right ?

Just a quick question before I go and forget about you forever, as child, were confused and frightened by the "Got your nose" and the mysterious detachable index finger tricks?

There is something more here then meets the eye, it does not make any since.It takes 6 years to make sure that it the right place. in shooting distance of the military base. And this big compound and no one is suspicious. Takes 40 men to kill and unarmed terrorist, then then less then a day they throw him into the water, and there is no picture.
There is some explaining that needs to be done I am hearing

@blackjack
If your trying to read between the line let me tell you whats there. White space. Nothing. Don't know where you get the 6yrs, I heard just under 2. And a lot of that was gaining intel, and then following it before there was a confirmation of his location. then this planning, allocation of reasources, additional confirmation of details and then timing.

As to the 40 men. Why risk send 30, 20, or 10. Why risk sending few to have them killed by an unknown strength of defense. Even with all the planning there was still a big shot in the dark (no pun intended). As to the picture and the at sea burial, read above for explanation, it was thuroughly talked about.

And the "military base" was a west pointe equivalent, an officer training base. thats not a conspiracy, its a known fact AQ works in Pakistan Gov.

Thanks for playing.

You are kidding right B.V.? because you must be from Bin Laden's family.

Thank the Lord that our Military is professionally run and not by Tea Party nimrods posting here. I myself am former Air Force and salute the brave men of Seal Team 6. The operation went off virtually without a hitch and no friendly casualities, what more will satisfy the critics?

@matthorn I'm very satisfied with my life thank you..lol, 500 people came to my wedding..lol, I live in a $400,000 house and have a rewarding career in the entertainment industry, even though I'm a electronic technologist by trade...lol...you probably wish you had the life I have. Just because I don't fall for all the lies that your govt puts out there doesn't mean I'm not happy. You watch to much hollywood movies. And I didn't get it by being a pathetic sheep..so go bow down to your T.V. You would like to think I live a less fulfilling life to make your existence seem better by comparison. Pathetic.

@DrChuck....okay I'l shut up cause YOU said so...lol Don’t worry I don’t mind you trolling me. 

@woowoo678...yeah I guess you're right, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. This subject actually upsets me, you can see wtc 7 free falling for no reason..and no one has any questions?...they are drinking too much fluoride.

http://www2.fluoridealert.org/Alert/China/Fluoride-in-Water-Linked-to-Lower-IQ-in-Children

My delivery might be brash, but the content I have posted speaks for itself.

@ianredneck, you have a hard time believing they were mossad? The NYPD arrested them, the FBI confirmed their identity...then they were deported back to israel...so who were they? They were caught with explosives.

@matthotn And where do you get your information? From CNN? What's the difference between Youtube & Cable Tv? Youtube users aren’t owned by huge corporations and they don't have editors that suppress the truth.

This is what I expected, you attack me but not the evidence I bring to the table because you can’t debunk it.

@ Aldrons
The link your provided only showed some possible isrealis, wheo went on tv...Mossad on tv? Maybe terrorists that sadly never got caught. Need more than that film bud.

PLEASE......lets not feed @aldrons paranoia. No amount of facts will convince him his "theories" are misguided. Let him spill his guts....but again.....please don't feed the paranoia by responding.

I agree Spacegeek.

I just had a question to some of the more educated people on the site. Couldn't vibrations from the plane crashes bring down the towers? I mean regular vibrations can do a lot of damage to a structure. Powerful vibrations like those from earthquakes can bring down buildings all the time. And then if the residential frequency of the steel used the construct the towers is hit, then couldn't a lot of damage be done. I mean they have been able to bring down entire bridges that with very small devices that are set at the residential frequency of main building material. (this is why soldiers are not supposed to march in step on bridges)
(o at least how it used to be)

@bob clemintime...and what is your level of education?

Vibrations will not explode the towers throwing huge sections of it outward. WTC 7 was not hit by a plane...so where did these magic "vibrations" come from? WTC 7 was not hit by a plane, and it fell at free fall speeds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk

LOL, I am so sad for all of you sheep...you will be fodder.

No one has discredited anything I have said, all you can do is attack me. You are frightened by the truth. It just shows that you have no ammo against the truth. BHAHAHAHA

Also who here is a psychologist? You diagnosis me with paranoia because I don't trust a government that has done nothing but kill people since 9/11?

look at what we did to the natives and the slaves...you really think this is beyond them?

It's funny cause I know teachers, engineers, phd's, economist, that think like me, I haven't seen this conspiracy stereotype that's being mentioned , the lonely, uneducated, unemployed "lone gunman" type. The people that I know that share my views are happy and well adjusted. And my friends that are sheep that think I'm way off, can at least look past my politics (and me theirs) ...but the small mindedness exhibited by the likes of spacegeek is sickening. But then again this is the internet, I'm sure you can't afford to be this closed minded and dismissive in real life.

@Ianredneck if it doesn't prove they are mossad, at the very lest it proves they were Israeli terrorists.

http://factsnotfairies.blogspot.com/2008/11/mossad-and-isi-link-to-operation-911.html

I was not trying to pick an argument, or even try to prove that 911 was not an inside job, I was just curious as to the affect vibrations can have on skyscrapers. Also, did i say all the buildings, no i did not so calm down. And the pressure of a building collapse causes dust and debris to "explode" outward. Lastly, I am in high school yet I am far more mature than you:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d679JVfRcOM&feature=channel_video_title

@ Aldrons
Well terroist i can understand, still not proof of a hidden agenda. Well at least not to the overall said agenda of oil and money.

And i do think i disproved a few things you stated though, bent steel beams, the pooled molten steal, the showers of "steel" which might have actually been melted aluminum which can melt at the temprature in the room, even those you aregue it, the complexity of the said operation for explosives. You can't say i didn't win one of those.

@spacegeek
yeah but this is fun :)

Apparently, the President was not as involved as the article states. Panetta backed by Clinton authorized the raid over the objections of other Presidential advisors and the President's waffling acquiecence. Check out the much published photo of the Whitehouse staff watching the live feed. If the President was so involved, why was he called in from the golf course? The photo makes it look like he was a late arrival, he does not even have a chair. Published white house insider info shows a house in disarray and a near mini coup being committed over the event. Of course you could say that those involved were protecting the Pres, giving him plausible deniability if the attempt failed. As they say "Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan." In this case Obama is all to eager to claim credit as though he was in the thick of it, which apparently he was not.

Aldrons, Conspiracies Ect.

First, I hope the article is true, if so congrats to all involved.

I am a very qualified (and happily recently retired) metallurgical and nuclear engineer (as in a masters and PHD degrees).

As many intelligent people, I find inconsistencies in several official government (and large institutional) stories. After having been involved in two in particular (which unfortunately I cannot name) I discovered what I think is at least part of the problem.

Apparently the people who write these official blurbs do not themselves understand what happened or are instructed to say something else. When in the, laboratory we analyzed the metal fragments - indeed the results finally confirmed two accidents - not an intentional origin.

Without going into a lot of technical discussion, let me just say that it did take a lot of work and some rather ingenious testing to duplicate the same kind of failures.

While I do not want to automatically rule out "conspiracy" in some very sensitive episodes such as the twin towers and JFK, in my own limited experience (in several nuclear and non nuclear disasters) I have found convincing alternate evidence.

The primary point is that many "experts" are not in fact actual "failure analysis experts". They may be design or theoretical or construction experts - but true failure analysis is much much more difficult. This is true, in part because in a "disaster", the actual conditions are seldom those anticipated by the above mentioned experts, and perhaps very difficult to recreate. So, of course their experience leads them to say things that while congruent with their experience --- are in fact not true. While many things are linear - many things are NOT.

Take it from me, genuine failure analysis is much more difficult than either designing or building a complicated device. And to do it right takes a lot of time and a lot more money.

Money, now we are making progress. It is cheaper to get some "expert" to pull a likely answer out of his hat - than to actually do the research (in one case over a year) to discover the real reason for the failure.

The reasons are simple, the dead are still dead, and the financial loss is still on the books. It seldom pays to have a debatable (by uninformed or poorly informed, well meaning people) real answer, which doesn't change much.

So in conclusion, perhaps Ronald McDonald nuked the twin towers - but for 99.99% I doubt it.

Regards

They should have tortured Osama as much as possible to get every ounce of information out of him.. He deserved to be tortured to death.

Osama is dead. But the conspiracy theorists have made me just a little uncertain. Also I agree with how Riccio explained things. Perhaps something was planned but highly unlikely.

@DJ
"They should have tortured Osama as much as possible to get every ounce of information out of him. He deserved to be tortured to death."

Tortur does not work! With enough time you could make anyone say they are giant plastic pink flamingo on the Wihte House law or some other stupid thing like. He may have deserved to be tortured to death but that's not who we are or what we do. We say we are better than he was then we need to really be better than he was.

@kokofan50
well something worked they got the name of the curier through gitmo........

@Ricco thanks for your opinions and for being civil. I too agree that 99.9% that Ronald McDonald did not nuke the towers. I wonder what your opinion is on the link I will leave below.

@Ianredneck can you please tell me your opinion on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d679JVfRcOM&feature=channel_video_title

This is a DR.Pieczenik he has worked in military intelligence for over 30 years. He wrote the book literaly for the state dept. on counter terrorisim. And worked directly under Presidents Ford & Nixxon & Bush & Carter. He was also a Kernel in the U.S army. Why would he come out and say the Osama story is a total lie? He says himself that he loves America and that he's sick of the modern govt lying to the public.

Is he a liar?

@Aldrons
Look what Dr. P says has some interesting questions, facts not so much i don't think i would have to check on stuff he says. Why would he lie? Why does anybody lie? Fame, fortune, favour. Maybe he wanted back in the limelight and saw all the conspiracy theories popping up. Maybe he got bored and decided to have some fun. I can't believe that Osama has been dead since 2002. What about the time dates by world events, tapes that Osama released that were voiced matched. That is public knowldge and not even Top secret stuff. That is basic information analysis stuff. And if this guy is making guess and putting out opinion then they are all guesses, yes maybe well educated but they are not, by any means, facts.

Some how it is hard to digest - osama was in this place for six years -and us gov was indirectly providing the funds for his upkeep (ultimately this is how the funds were used by pak) i think the world is producing more politicians then true leaders these days . Killing one osama is not the end of terrorism -there needs to be a global policy to uproot this menace from its roots - DRUGS-FLESH TRADE -REAL ESTATE -MAFIA-PIRACY IN THE SEAS-

@lanredneck
"well something worked they got the name of the curier through gitmo........"

What are you saying that all they do is torture at gitmo?

@Aldron
shut the F up

@laredneck
please leave Aldron alone he won't back off so leave him

this thread has gon on with you 2 going back and forth *Aldron* "the gov wants us dead and funds osama so that it can kill the people WHO FUND THE GOV ITSELF (did you know people PAY TAXES to the gov when the get their paychecks? i didn't either amazing right?)"

i notice how you talk about the twin towers alot but not the attack on the F-ING PENTAGON WHERE THE GOVERNMENT KEEP THEIR FILES or that a plane crashed near WASHINGTON D.C. WHERE THE PRES. LIVES no ALdron an explosion didn't crash a PLANE did, do you kknow what a plane is?

and larendeck your facts are provable but don't accont for everything so Aldron will keep pulling mor tricks out of his sleeve

and lastly i won't be here so comment on me all you like but i would first like to tell you i am in 8th grade,read alot,and love science,but such calculations and conspiricies are beyond me i come to this site to see new innovations and intresting aticals (and to laugh at petty squables like this) but in truth i see grown men argueing over somthing that happend years ago and over a dead man when you get some means to ressurect osama and timetravel to 9/11 then fight until then this arguement should be over

P.S. how about that an middle schooler schooling adults ROLF
so anyway seeya suckers

Top Terrorist Hunter For U.S. Government: Wolfowitz General Told Me 9/11 Was False Flag,

http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-terrorist-hunter-for-u-s-government-wolfowitz-general-told-me-911-was-false-flag.html

For all you conspiracy theorist (*cough *cough aldron)

www.popularmechanics.com/911-myths

this is actually from a reputable site.

@Last hope I could make an educated argument against the bull shit u r posting but rite now u don't even deserve to have the time of day. Your are being such a bitch blaming an act or terrorism on the U.S., the greatest country in the world, the murderous mastermind behind the thousands of deaths in 9/11 deserved to rot in hell how dare u say that he was innocent and it was the gov. u should be ashamed of ur self. FU FU FU

@macmansc I'm also an 8th grader nice to know I'm not the only one on here

@bigb it is isn't it

wow macmansa i got "schooled" lol i remeber my frist post too!! Look if you don't like whats on the threads dignore them. But I get bored and I like try to prove Aldrons theories wrong, makes my day more intersting. And while i do that I tend to educate myself (something we should all strive for,...some more than other *cough* macmansa *cough* lol, don't get upset only a joke). But in seriousness i am sorry to all those that got upset by this thread. I will try to keep all searches for knowledge off this science magazine website.

Dr. Steve Pieczenik Tells The U.S. Shadow State: “Cease And Desist” Acts of State Terrorism And Acts of Deception

Dr. Steve Pieczenik is not your average Joe. Trained as a psychiatrist at Harvard University, Dr. Pieczenik is an expert in psychological warfare, regime change, counter-terrorism, and other national security related fields.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/dr-steve-pieczenik-tells-the-u-s-shadow-state-cease-and-desist-acts-of-state-terrorism-and-acts-of-deception.html

Many observers are cautioning, however, that regardless of the particular details of this incident, more worrying is how the incident is now being used to position the Americans and Pakistanis on a more antagonistic footing, potentially opening the door for greater conflict in the Middle East and indeed around the globe.

The event raises the possibility of a false flag terrorist incident to be blamed on Pakistan and used as a justification for a full-scale military incursion into the area.

http://www.corbettreport.com/sunday-update-20110508/

Gerald Celente, author of the best-selling book Trends 2000 and Trend Tracking. Celente founded the Trends Research Institute in 1980.

www.trendsresearch.com/

Gerald Celente: The Fed, Public Enemy No. 1, "Osama" Bin Bernanke 1/3 ,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-b9xQnWRYA&feature=player_embedded

Proof: Bin Laden Death Another Gov’t Lie,

Bin Laden was a strawman-villain concocted by the Western intelligence apparatus to take the blame for the orchestrated terror that is scripted and carried out by the globalist-allied factions. The Phantom Osama bin Laden was a skeleton key opening the door to foreign intervention in the middle east or anywhere al Qaeda might be. The motive is simple– ever-expanding wars for the military industrial complex, and the often more lucrative periods of reconstruction (i.e. you break it, you buy it). The occupation continues here at home with the creation of a police state supposedly meant to combat terrorism.

http://www.infowars.com/55914/

I have a theory about the downed helicopter: US did it on purpose.
WHY?
1. Leaves visible/concrete evidence that we were there. Any pictures could be said to be Photoshopped. This tail is concrete.
2. Within the tail, which was not blown up, we put little robots the size of a fly (they do exist) which then follow the tail as the Pakis take it off to a secluded place.
3. As it is being dissembled, the robots fly out and begin their reconnaissance: eyes and ears on the ground.
4. We find out who they are selling info to, where their most secure and secretive places are, and how they REALLY view this whole thing. The Pakis are so duplicitous that we need insight into them if we are going to be able to get this region in order.
5. When US fireballed the front of the helicopter, that was the sign to the Paki airforce that the mission was complete and the US was leaving and Pakis could now scramble their planes (why did it take about 40 minutes for them to scramble?). The US could have fireballed the whole helicopter. Wanted to leave a little token for the Pakis and our real time reconnaissance mission begins.
6.It was only one man that flew that helicopter in and no one else on it. He did not do it until boots were in the compound and the mission was almost over. He jumped out, detonator set to go off in 10 minutes, jumps on one of the other helicopters and they are off. These helicopter pilots do not land half in, half out unless it was on purpose. They knew exactly how high the wall was, and exactly where they wanted to land it half in half out.

This flap over the picture of Bin Laden...whether to let it out or keep it....complete ruse. Think about it. There are somethings that are certain in life, somethings that are not. US knew there would be pictures. They knew we would want to see them, but they knew that a picture would turn into a shrine. But they had to have something concrete (tail of helicopter) for the world....without a picture....you cannot tell me that Panetta and Obama are so out of touch with the whole concern, that one would say the pictures would come and one would say no. They played all of us like little children....and distracted from the TAIL of the helicopter.
That's my TALE.

This thread has branched into two directions; one about the story, Ossama's "mansion" and his unusual death, the other about 911.

On the Ossama question... Some of you say you are glad he is dead. Other's ask why kill him?

If he was truly our arch enemy, and we'd spent 10 years looking for him, he must represent a threat based on what and who he knows. If the central dogma is the Gitmo model, then it is very confusing that we should not make every effort to capture him. Please do not insult us all by suggesting a team of burly, bullet-proof vested heros couldn't capture and bag this old man... Are there no Dick Marcinko's left among us? Yes, it might have been risky to do so, but then again that's what Seal's love. To kill this man is to Martyr him... To give his team just what they wanted. To bury at sea is to insight conspiracy. None of this makes sense, and that is well expressed in these comments.

Aside from the fact that as Americans, we just don't do that.

I'm sorry, but that is not an American ideal. Sorry to you all who want revenge, but that's not how it works in this country, and if you say it is, you are in the wrong country.

The other argument in this thread is whether 911 was an inside job, in/out or fully Al Queda. Personally, aside from the revulsion it causes to contemplate, I can't square all the coincidences with a believable narrative of outside attack by 19 Saudi Arabians with box cutters and super-mario flying abilities.

But, the back and forth has been instructive: Mainly it's one gentleman presenting reasoned arguments, backed up with references and videos vs the naysayers who have done a very poor job of presenting any substantive information, while mainly providing a running character attack. So, from the outside, the score is Inside Job; 1, all three building fall down using 2 airplanes; zero.

One of the consistent arguments seems to be the not so fine point at which metals becomes molten or pliable. This temperature or that, this chemical residue or that... Please let me suggest we step around that argument, to progress the overall thesis. Let's agree to accept the notion that the steel in this structure bent at the temps produced by the plane caused fires only. The plane, the office contents and the jet fuel are all we have, but let's agree that was enough to start the initial collapse. I do not, for a second think this happened, but for the sake of moving forward, let's say it did.

Where does that leave us. Watch the film of the falling towers, again, to refresh your memory. Now walk thru it, without prejudice. Remember, we both agree the steel got hot enough to bend and fail at the temperature near the crash site.

2 seconds after the falling tower top crashes into itself, I hope you will agree with me that the majority of the heat affecting steel has been well bypassed. The falling mass of the building is now crashing thru cold and competent steel and concrete. Ok, we are together, all in agreement, at this point, just hundreds of feet below the crash site, but in an area where the steel is not hot.

Let's take a moment to look at the big picture. The twin towers were built around a core of elevators and structural steel meant to hold the entire building, allowing for large floors and floating walls.

Your rapidly falling tower tops have bent and broken due to the Heat of the Plane Crash, and are now tearing thru competent core material, surrounded by weaker floors and skin facia.

Please try to explain, at this point, why this top heavy carnival ride would continue straight into the core of the supporting structure. It would have been pushed to the side and the top would have slowly toppled off to one side. This core held the entire weight of the building during hurricane force winds and the impact of a jet. Why would it fail to deflect the falling mass which it easily held for 25 years?

Ok, so you want me to concede even more... You aren't satisfied with giving you pliable steel at open hearth temperatures... I'll give you the crushing of the concrete. Sure, the falling structure broke concrete. But look at the video and at the aftermath dust which billowed across lower Manhattan after the fall. This concrete was pulverized, whereas the falling structure would have crumbled the concrete just enough to get it to fall, then it would have fallen.

But in doing so, in admitting anything at all happened to the concrete, you have to admit the end of your own argument that it happened as a consequence of the planes only.

The concrete being crushed by the falling structure above admits that energy is being absorbed to remove the concrete. This takes time. Unfortunately, no matter how the "true believers" squirm they can't get around the fact the entire process happened at speeds which don't allow for time to pulverize floor after floor of concrete. Each of these floor eating steps would slow down the process sufficient to stretch the fall and yet it all happens at free fall speeds; AS IF THE FLOORS BELOW WERE BEING REMOVED FROM THE EQUATION, BEFORE THEIR CHANCE TO SLOW THINGS DOWN.

Ok, so, we've conceded your pliable metal idea and agreed the building busted the concrete as it fell. But, you've still got a massive central core of steel to chew on, and i've not heard a convincing argument to deal with that, yet, so I'm very much waiting your reply with an answer to that conundrum.

Oh... btw... WTC-7

Yea, the third sister. Free fall speeds. They say fire bent the steel, here, as well. But again, collapsing steel and concrete take time to fall. AND they don't fall conveniently. They fail messy. They lean to one side. They topple. They don't fall like a building demolished. Rational, common sense tells us that. Fear and hurt pride make us believe we have other explanations for what our eyes can plainly see.

Oh, or complicity. Yes, there is a way to keep all this quite. And there was a hell of a lot of "this" involved in pulling this off.

The mafia do it every day. They have Made Men that with Omerta don't talk, under pain of death. They do what they do for reasons honorable to them. I'm sure the folks that did this felt it was honorable to kill some Americans in order to save others. I don't think they are just evil, they just use evil means. They could be presidents and all the president's men, for that matter. Dangerous folks hiring dangerous operatives.

Just who did this, I don't know. However, the arguments that bush jr did this are a distraction. His father was in office for years. Rumsfeld and Cheney were both around for administration after admin. The plans were in play for years for this moment. A small group ran it. They did not get away without leaving lots of evidence. But, there are folks that are actively saying we should not investigate this crime. It did not get investigated as a crime. It got swept up ASAP and the evidence never presented... just a crusade pulled out of bushes arse ASAP and we were off and running, with the Patriots riding on the top of the tanks into the dark night of war.

So, we've had 10 years to get over the fear... and Ossama is gone. It's now time for the grownups in the room to remind the fearful and the Patriots that sometimes governments dupe their own people. There is no shame in getting duped. It happens at the mall every time a guy buys a $12- 3 year protection plan on a $30 nite lite.

But, we are past the shock and fear, now. It's time to take a close look at the story we were fed. There is still time to address the root cause of what was done to us in 2001. The cabal that ran that operation did not go away with the election of Obama. They are still out there. The question is when they will return, not if (some would say, they never left). And how will we recognize them, before they strike again.

@ lanredneck

"I like try to prove Aldrons theories wrong, makes my day more intersting. And while i do that I tend to educate myself (something we should all strive for..."

I agree with the part about educating oneself by addressing and trying to counter the arguments of others. It helps us to examine our own arguments validity when we have to defend it against another.

Keep up the discussion, please. it can't hurt and can only help.

I fear for our future when our youth (apparent youth) cast free the past and only want their tech fix with no thought to the future they will have to live in.

@macmansa....make me! You have nothing to add

9/11 was an inside job.

Osama has been dead for years..

Here is a link of Benazir Bhuto claiming Osama has been killed. She was murdered a week later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

Here we have a leader of a Nuclear power, the country where bin laden was "found"...telling this british shill that osama is dead and the shill doesn't even follow up on what she has said.

I think Bhuto knows what she was talking about...you sheep go back to sleep now.

I like

@hermanhusband
Lets take a step back on the towers falling straight down. Lets look at soem bare bones physics. What is force force by equations is mass times acceleration. Force is energy applied in motion. When we look at the towers falling we see and intersting thing happen, the towers top part falls with the mass of those tops floors falling onto the next floor below it, which obviously the floor was not supposed to handle in that kind of instance. So once one floor collapses it adds more weight which increase the lateral downward force. I personnaly believe that it was the elevator shafts that helped the tower fall straight down, like taking a dowel rod and slide some washers down it. And the weight of the upper floors helped break the elevator shaft as it collapsed, so there wasn't a "dowel rod" sticking up the middle, I use the analogoy of a bunch on books with chopsticks holding them up betweem two tables i drop one book it breaks the chopsticks, falls down then those two books hit that one and breaks those chopsticks,etc. etc. Now if you had styrofoam cups holding them up with the chopsticks still holding them up i think give a good visual of what might have happened to the elevator shaft.

As to the 'pulverized concrete" so your telling me millions of tons falling on millions of tons of concrete will only break it into small pieces, falling at near/complete terminal velocity? I drop a cinder block from 30 feet onto another cinder block there is a lot of dust after that too.

I think conspiracy theories are based of lack of knowledge, since the dawn of time man has tried to rationalize things we can not understand with fantastical tales, spontaneous generation coems to mind, i lay a piece of meat out on the side walk, i see some flies land on it fly away, next day i see maggots, not having a microscope or understand of insect reproduction i think, holy crap those maggots came from no where, the 'spontainiously' came to life? Or is it really that the flies laid eggs on it, and they are just to small to see. Occams razor ladies and gentlemen. Are there big scary hindden agendas to control the world and make billions of dollars or just soem pissed of religous radicals trying to take on the symbol of there hatred? which one is more easier to believe? Complexity leads to failure, which has a better chance of survivng stress, 20 moving parts or two?

The Last Word on Osama Bin Laden.

Osama Bin Laden was one of the 54 children of Mohammed bin Awad bin Laden, a construction magnate who made his fortune by cozying up to the royal family of Saudi Arabia. The bin Laden family has had an intimate relationship with the upper reaches of global power politics for the past half a century.

In 1976 Salem bin Laden, Osama’s half-brother, co-founded Arbusto Energy with George W. Bush.

http://www.corbettreport.com/the-last-word-on-osama-bin-laden/