Can Animals Really Be Gay?

they are just curious. they dont have the proper intelligence to care about being gay. its all curiosity. humans turn to homosexuality because they choose to. they think it out. it is not necessary for survival. animals only care about the essentials in life in order for them to survive and mate. it is imprinted in our dna and other lifeforms to mate with others of the opposite sex in order to reproduce and survive to ensure survival of the species.

_________________
The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain.

- Abu-al-Ala al-Marri

I believe Elton John was once quoted as he is not getting married to another man, but making a union or partnership. Marriage is a religious term.

The word “GAY " is a human social term as well, too.

It would be better, if this article use the correct terms as they apply to animals.

Jedi mindset..
you're an idiot. its not some choice.
why would someone stay gay by choice, so they could be judged, persecuted, insulted, beaten, and even have the threat of death.....all by choice...

I do not agree at all with "JediMindset". No one would choose to have a sexuality that faces so much unjustified discrimination. No one would choose to be harassed or threatened or persecuted. Just as yjakez says, no one would choose that for themselves. Just like other natural traits, there may be a variety of causes both natural and environmental that ultimately determines an individual's sexuality, though I think genetic predisposition is the most prominent determining factor. The vast majority of individuals who identify themselves as being gay are not so because they choose to be, but rather it is how they were born. Straight and gay I also don't believe to be like an on or off switch. It is more like a sliding scale in which one may be born more one way or the other. Environmental and social factors may very slightly push someone a tiny bit one way or the other on this scale for a time (often at great stress to the individual), but it is not going to make a straight person gay or a gay person straight or otherwise significantly alter their sexuality over a prolonged time.

There has been some very serious scientific research that shows homosexuality may be a genetic disposition along the same lines as any other physical trait. If you believe sexual orientation is a choice try to change your mind, a straight person such as myself would have no more of an ability or desire to do so then a homosexual person would.

As far as the statement that people can be classified as intelligent or not based on religious views, many Nobel Prize winners for scientific contributions are profoundly religious people and some aethiest are complete morons.

We can however choose to be prejudiced and disrespectful, although that can be argued to be a result of low intelligence and hence not really a choice.

Yes, George, there are gay animals. Read "Sex In Nature" by Chris Catton & James Gray, published by Facts on File Publications - 1985. As the whole animal and mammal kingdom would say, "We're here, we're queer...get use to it."

Nature does not discriminate and it even uses homosexuality to control populations where food is scarce. Welcome to planet Earth.

JamesDavis,
I am having problems of finding the name George above. Does anybody else see a George?

Why those are homosexual and why not is equal to asking every single 7 billion people on earth, why they do what they do. We vary so much in individuality, environment, and social factors. It could be a force biological choice for some and it could be a real personal choice for others and also the environment social surroundings could affect your choices too. I find this question impossible to answer.
But I do believe in people right to choose and live a normal life. L&L&L. Live and Let Live and continue to Learn in life.

Now to why animals make variety in sexual choices, I have not a clue either and it is as much a mystery for me.

blue the george he was referring to is jedimindsets pic.

does anyone here believe that evolution is true? if so why would any "gay" animals still exist?

@everyone
i believe that your surrounding environment can some sort of impact on your sexual orientation. that and genes. im not saying that its always a chose. everyone one is different. ive know homosexuals that chose to be gay because women treated them like trash. they were not "born" gay. they were just angry that all women. so once again they are not all "born" gay. sometimes they might be but not all the time.

_________________
The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain.

- Abu-al-Ala al-Marri

Humans are not just animals, and i think anyone who justifies there behavior on the fact that wild animals do it two is definitely looking in the right place to learn how to behave

First of all, humans are animals...period. Mammals to be more exact.

Second of all, homosexuality is not a choice. Duh. You can however choose to do a sexual act that is homosexual in nature even if you are heterosexual.

And lastly, why would anyone choose to be gay? It is harder to be that way because of society, so anyone who says it is a lifestyle choice is ignorant, or just plain stupid. And the people who do say it is a choice are never gay...so hmmmm.....what does that tell us?

Jedimindset

Your quote:

"The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain."
- Abu-al-Ala al-Marri

is ignorant. I have a 142 IQ and I'm a Christian. I'm also gay. I'm also left handed, blond haired and blue eyed. I'm a statistical anomaly.

Ya, homosexuality is not a choice. If it were, I would sooo choose to be gay! Admit it, life would be so much easier if we didn't have to deal with women. I just can't stand the thought of doing anything sexual with another dude. But if you like doing that, more power to you and just know that I'm jealous that you found out how to beat the system! :)

@azaria1

If your IQ really was 140+ you would know that an IQ test is a poor indexer of intelligence. I have an IQ of 132, so I might just be too stupid to be compared to you but IQ tests do not account for my business skills and "streets smarts" or even my emotional intelligence. In fact it doesn't even even predict my scholastic potential. What does this mean? IQ is a poor indicator of intelligence as a whole! Research it!!!

Regardless of this you're still an anomaly, not not because of your genetic composition, but because you have the sanity to publicly admit your orientation as you attempt to break a social taboo, brought upon, partially by your own religion.

azaria1,
I read your characteristics and I think you A-O-K! No worries! ;)

azaria1,
I am statically a square, with a pie in the face. Stuff happens and yes we all feel odd on some days, lol!

Ptssss, ptsss, I said the word square and pie, because this is POPSCI and these people like these words. Say SKYNET, Robotics, Autonomous, Cosmos, Neutrinos or Faster than Light and you will get a giant WAVE like at a football game, lol. ;)

@azaria, if you have such a high IQ then you must read alot and since you claim to be Christian then you would know that in the Bible, homosexuality is condemned in multiple books and time periods. You can't pick and choose.

"Homosexuals shall not inherit the Kingdom of God," should have tipped you off a little. I'm not criticizing anyone, but I'll stand up for what I believe.

As for animals and humans being gay, survival of the fittest and most eagerly to adapt would have killed off any chance of being gay in genetics along time ago. Two gay men can't have a baby therefore the genetic error ends there. It is not passed on.

I had to putmy two cents in. I know MANY gay people with their own children. There are plenty that don't realize they have been living a lie pretending to the world they are straight. They find out (through great pai nand misery) so late into the game after they have already had children. The argument that the "gay" gene can't happen just because gay people can't reproduce is lacking the right information. Not everything is as black and white as you think it is. The question this brings up to you now would be, well how did they have kids with the opposite sex if it truely isn't a choice. Have you ever heard of peer pressure? Except this isn't just peers. This is family, friends, religion, the world. Beating down on your mind, telling you that you HAVE to be this way. It's like this or you go to hell. Damnation, destruction, etc. etc. etc. Thats a lot of pressure and that can make people do things they wouldn't normally do.

Dear imongi,
I tell you clearly and I tell you now from my heart, I care about you, your family and all those around you, your friends. You are beautiful and are much deserving of caring and love! You and yours are in my prayers! I wish good things for you and yours! Be yourself, be kind to others, live your OWN proudly life! I am on your side!

@Imongi, you probably believe in evolution so your argument doesnt matter. Humans have been around long before peer pressure even mattered. The gene would have been lost millions of years ago before the concept of gay existed. Let alone spoken language.

@titans3775 genes can be dormant and not active for several generations. also its common to be a carrier of a gene and never know it.

clay aiken, gay. father. ur argument doesnt matter

30k years is more than a few generations. If it doesn't come out in that amount of time it will never see the light of day.

I apologize ahead of time for the long post. BUT if you read the first few lines you will see the relevance. its shows the ABSOLUTE ignorance of people like TITTAN3775

"In her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, which was posted on the Internet.

Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination .... End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them. 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness -Lev15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. Your adoring fan, James M Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus, Dept. Of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian)"

I believe people may be over-thinking this one. It's obvious that both human beings and animals engage in homosexual behavior for pleasure. The question with animals is do they bond in more or less the same way as human beings who identify as homosexual? In other words, are they only having sex for pleasure or are they capable of truly approaching a homosexual relationship in the same way they would approach a heterosexual relationship?

The trouble that I think many people have when pondering this question is that love is a powerful emotion. So much so that we tend to place undue significance upon it, as if it were something mystical or spiritual. When in reality it's biochemically motivated.

We can't ask an animal to relate to us its thoughts on love. However, we can infer from their behavior whether or not it is plausible to assume that homosexuality in some animals goes beyond pleasure.

It turns out that there are some animals which are known to produce individuals who are exclusively homosexual. They won't mate with the opposite sex, only the same sex.

It seems counter-intuitive for exclusively homosexual individuals to persist in a population. But as they do exist and actually represent a significant portion of some populations, we need to ask ourselves how this can be reconciled with the basic tenets of evolutionary theory.

Just off the top of my head, one possible explanation for the benefits of homosexuality to a population:

Homosexuality serves a beneficial purpose to the species at a cost to the individual. There are many instances of this in nature, although there isn't sufficient evidence at this time to suggest a mechanism by which homosexuality may be beneficial in this way.

Having said that, a possible (yet unproven) explanation might be environmental pressures as a trigger for homosexuality. It may be that certain stressors within a population result in the increased expression of homosexual tendencies. Homosexuality could be an evolutionarily developed countermeasure to overcrowding, for instance.

I'm not saying this is how it is, but I don't think people who say that homosexuality can't be reconciled with evolutionary theory are really thinking this through. I mean you don't honestly believe that homosexuals are incapable of feeling love, do you? But since they do, how do we explain the fact that they persist in the population?

They exist. They aren't making a choice or purely seeking pleasure (as evidenced by animals who also engage in exclusively homosexual behavior). And there's no evidence to suggest that it's in decline and will eventually weed itself out of the population.

Wouldn't that require us to seek an evolutionary mechanism for homosexuality? Wouldn't you have to ask yourself at that point, "How do I explain this?" We're past the point of denial here, aren't we?

Maybe those animals are just too stupid to understand what their sexual reproductive organs are for.

It's kinda like trying to feed yourself through your ear. LOL

Just a note to everyone, be careful how much you rely on the "Why would anyone choose to be gay?" argument. You make homosexuality seem like something a person should dread. All the talk about persecution would almost make it seem like homosexuality is something that one should be rescued from as if it were possible. (It might even start sounding like the racist question "Why would anyone want to be black?") While it may not be your intention, those of you who push this question are making the idea of being homosexual to be something loathsome and something that should be avoided at all costs.

The answer to the question "Why would anyone choose to be homosexual?" lies with those who make the choice to be homosexual. While there may be some evidence showing that people can be genetically predisposed to homosexuality there is no evidence (and it maybe impossible to show) that absolutely no one can choose to be homosexual no matter how terrible the consequences of being homosexual might seem to others.

Besides, there are people who may be homosexual but choose to be heterosexual for any number of reasons (family pressure, religious beliefs, societal pressure). Does it really defy all logic and reason that someone could choose to be homosexual? If that were the case would the consequences of that choice be so terribly horrific that no sane person could ever make such a choice?

A couple of points:

Evolution: In a social species like humans, evolution may actually favour populations which have a certain percent of non-child producing adults- thus favouring a certain number of gay people. Especially in olden days when families were closer knit. A gay aunt or uncle that helps raise a child of their siblings may have more chance of their family genes being passed on then if they were to have their own children competing for the resources- in which none of the children may have enough to prosper and reach reproductive age.

Many birds have similar traits where they will help close relatives raise their young. Many species may have ancestors that do this.

If you think of the honeybee as a classic example- the workers do not directly pass on their genes- but they help continue their own genetic line by helping their mother reproduce.

Driving Factors: who says it is one size fits all. As with most behavioural things; it is probably a combination of nurture and nature. Our genes and our environment probably both play towards our preference. Most likely it is not all one or the other.

As for animals vs humans: It seems birds, and monogamous species seem to fit more into the human definition. There may be more "movement" between preference in these animals than with humans because humans seem to be more likely to apply logic and label themselves as one or the other... one who labels himself straight or gay is likely to stick to that definition. We teach ourselves consciously or subconsciously that certain traits are desirable.

Even in humans though- people "change" preference as they learn to relabel themselves.

This is one of those issues where it doesn't matter what you believe - facts are facts: The concept of marriage has existed throughout countless human societies, religions and legal systems. If marriage spans myriad cultures and thousands of years of written history, then it cannot exclusively be a religious institution. Defining marriage through religion is simply ignorant and narrow minded.

Regarding homosexuality in general, people are more dishonest with themselves then they realize - if you believe you can choose your sexuality, then you are probably some flavor of bisexual (or a closeted homosexual). I didn't choose to be straight, I just don't find any pleasure in intimacy with men - that's not a choice, it just is.

But then again Neil deGrasse Tyson said it best: Labels are mentally lazy ways by which people assert they know you without knowing you.

Here's my theory. Take it for what it is.

Homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom and subsequently in human nature is derrived from the domination aspect of sexual intercourse as it happens with animals.

According to a study about the purpose behind the development of [human] female orgasms, females have not always had the biological capability to respond to intercourse orgasmically. It's also well known that in the animal kingdom, and with prehistoric human species, that males forcefully have intercourse with females. This being the origin of courtship being a chase for men.

To put things into perspective, within the animal kingdom there is also a structure of hierarchy that is determined by strength. Those at the top of the hierarchy are designated the Alpha male. Other than the fact that they tend to have prime choice over food, shelter, and mating, when challenged, a dominating male may end a violent conflict by sexually penetrating another male as an animalistic act of dominance, solidifying there place in the hierachy. Such behavior serves to psychologically deter the challenger and any others from disturbing the order.

Much like the theory that females have evolved to experience orgasms in sexual intercourse as a psychological motivator behind reproduction, homo-sexual behavior in modern humans is probably nothing more than a psychological evolution of the experience of pleasure in homosexual domination as a means to survive an otherwise psychologically traumatic experience. In every relationship, there is a dominant spouse and a recessive spouse. This paradigm is indescriminant to heterosexual or homosexual relationships, male or female; the two roles depends on the people.

Sense the same rules do not apply to the animal kingdom, homosexual activity is simply nothing more than a biologically developed behavior of dominance that in this stage of evolution may also exist as an instinctual action as much as a deliberate one.

This is not new. Homosexual erotic behavior has been documented in primates since at least the 1950's. Of course, the new research is interesting, but gay animals are nothing new.

I am in awe of the quantity of comments that got flagged above. It is simply amazing. This subject must really be touchy for some.

It is my opinion that ignorance helps inspire hate and anger and it’s healthy for people to be allowed to voice their own opinions. Those same people could go back and re-read their own opinions and read other opinions and minds could be changed, and inner growth may occur.

@inaka_rob, I am not Jewish so I happen to believe in more parts of the Bible. The Bible is a guideline and the argument made by that Dr. is only a half-truth. You are pretty much saying it condones slavery when in fact it was giving rules for the treatment of slaves. It was pretty much a given that people were going to own slaves in olden days so God gave his people a guideline to treat them fairly even though they were still property which is covered in other books.

Try reading the Book from cover to cover before condemning it. I can take many things out of context and make them sound bad.

Animals including humans don't have sex to procreate, they do whatever feels good and right to them. That some sex end in pregnancy is just lucky for us.

yeah my dog is totally gay. You should see what he makes my other dog do. But I still love him. But not in an unnatural way...unless I get drunk and pass out. Then Rover takes over.

Frank
If "Natural Selection " is the truth, then same sex attraction would have been bred out of the species millenia ago. How would a practice so anti-human be perpetrated. As to other animals , we are not other animals. We live, I hope, by using our brains. Some of us choose to take drugs that destroy our minds and bodes. Was that genetic? Who was born with a deficiency of heron or THC that makes it critical we keep the level up artificially. If you choose to be self-destructive or to remove yourself from the gene-pool, please do it quietly and don't insist I pay attention or even approve. I only ask you respect that I don't want to know nor do I care. Just as I respect your right to go off in a corner and do your anti-life actions.

My dog makes love to its pillow!! Now explain what that means. Seriously, SHE makes love to the pillow in a male style. I cannot imagine an explanation for this at all.

This sequence of comments may soon be academic in that, like the only too common abortion of female embryos, genetic manipulation techniques will end the gay predisposition.

wa8whp, you are forgetting that perhaps same-sex attraction has an important role in nature, hence it does not get bred out of the species. And same sex attraction is really not anti-human. I do not understand where that affirmation comes from since the claim is usually the opposite ("homosexuality is a choice humans make").

I may be completely misunderstanding your post, and what you are saying is that natural selection does not exist.

Animals use their brains as well, by the way. Some even drug themselves too. See the lemurs licking toxic centipedes, or animals eating fermented fruit to get drunk.

Here's a great NatGeo video showing homosexuality in animals:
http://www.thebroadroad.com/forum/#topic/Homosexuality-in-Animals.htm

So did Adam and Eve's sin cause the animals to turn gay? Or is this part of nature and evolution? You decide.

mp, you got to find out if your dog is in love with the pillow or simply humping it for self pleasure.

brublr, we first need to find the gay gene.

Reading these comments makes me feel I am living in a coo-coo clock!

I am I really the only one that noticed that:
ALL OF THE SO-CALLED "GAY" ANIMALS ARE ACTUALLY BI ?!?!?

(It doesn't say so in the example, but after Roy and Silo "divorced" at least one of them went on to pick a female partner)

What this means is every single comment regarding "natural selection" and "reproduction" is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT!

All of these "gay" animals ARE reproducing!! Having sex with a same sex partner occasionally (even for one stage in life) does not in any way invalidate natural selection, nor does natural selection exclude having sex with a same sex partner. Just like natural selection doesn't select against affection or play or social activity or any other "non-productive" activity.

The simple reality is animals don't mate for the "purpose" of reproduction in the first place; any more than two teens in the back of a car are trying to make a baby. That is the "purpose" from the stand point of DNA and the specie as a whole, but an individual animal does what feels good. Without the social / religious non-sense that humans deal with, sex feels good, period. The real scientific question here is why aren't all animals bi all the time.

jpccusa,
As much as I can see my dog is in a happy place and so I leave her alone. Its at those moments of her bonding with her pillow, I prefer to choose ignorance for myself, turn the TV volume up louder and just focus on the program. I do not think, I will ever pursue the answers to your questions sir. Some things just need distance. ;)

I just think homosexuality is instinctually behavioral in animals stemming from dominating another for superiority (@mp this is probably why your female dog is mounting a pillow; practicing the act of establishing dominance).

I'm also saying homosexuality in humans is evolved from the same thing to an effect where it can be enjoyed, similar to the evolution of the female orgasm; a survival measure twisted into forming an act of pleasure.

For those who can't understand how evolution supports homosexuality, I implore you to think about how little we know about WHY traits exist. There may be more to natural selection than just what's on the surface. Homosexuality could be a by-product of something more important. For instance, maybe male homosexuality relates to a female's ability to be more fertile and produce more children? That sounds strange, but recent research showed that women who have homosexuals in their bloodline have greater fecundity than women who do not. They produce more children. The same genes that produce homosexuals may be responsible for this, making homosexuality a by-product of something that boosts human survival.

I do hope and wish to all this conversation, a healthy dose of human tolerance is being learned. ;)

@jacobaziza
please explain then why all animals except for dolphins and humans don't mait except when the female is in heat.

@ at those that say sexuality is not a choice due to the risk of being hurt physicaly and emotionaly.

while i do not beleive that sexuality is always a chioce it can not be disregared as a choice simply due to negative consiquences. why does a woman in the middle east choose to commit adultery if she could be stoned. why do marters choose to follow a path that leads to death. th argument that the negative consiquences of a chioce no matter how great will cause people to always choose not to is illogical.

First of all, in the example given, the squid would be "bi" not gay since it indiscriminately shoots its love packets at whatever squid comes its way.

It may be simply a natural optimization...if the cost of squid sperm is low, it might not be worth the cost of trying to find out whether the other squid is a dude or chick. Just lay low, and fire away until you get a cupie doll.

You-Read-It-Here-First
http://www.yrihf.com

Some animals on occasion kill their young, eat each other, and roll in their own excrement. If we use same-sex behavior in animals to justify it in humans, we probably should factor in filicide, cannibalism, and ... whatever term adequately describes rolling around in pooh. Genesis 3 and Romans 8 describe a creation that was corrupted by sin's introduction into the world. Resulting anomalies in nature are poor justification for homosexuality. Animals act on instinct, whereas humans are moral agents with a free will and a conscience (Rom. 2:15), able to contemplate choices and consequences and apply reason. Everyone understands human obligation to objective moral values when we realize animals maul each other to death isn't murder, but in a human context, it is.

Genetic predisposition to same-sex attraction can explain the desire, as can environmental conditioning, but ultimately we are still responsible for our own behavior. It's that behavior that is condemned in Scripture (Romans 1:24-27).

my opinion on the matter is the urge to mate is a natural instinct... just sometimes the urge is misguided. For example, a dog humping your leg...

For humans, social constructs seem to influence this urge the most. It doesn't seem feasible for homosexuality to be genetic when their numbers are rising, this would be counter-intuitive since they cannot produce offspring.

What a silly assumption.. this is not science; it is a scavenger hunt for rationalization w/o true scientific procedure or data to back it up. Let's find something else to explore....PLEASE!

Maybe squids just have crappy eyesight and can't tell who they're squirting on. Ewwww.

@ Emperor - The idea of numbers growing is completely wrong. In Ancient Greece, homosexuality was common. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that nowadays more people are coming out of the closet and publicly disclosing their sexual orientation. That does not mean more people are becoming homosexuals.

And for the record, not only homosexuals can produce offspring (homosexuals are not sterile people), they can also adopt, impregnate a surrogate woman (or be a surrogate mother, in the case of lesbians), donate sperm to sperm banks, etc.

@ everyone - If you think homosexuality is a choice or a lifestyle, do the scientific approach, and try it for yourself. Really put your heart and soul into romantically loving and having sex with someone of the same sex. If you are able to sustain a long term relationship with this "new choice" of yours, and be truly happy and satisfied with that new choice, then I will accept your theory.

______________________________________

The world would be a much better (and advanced) place if religion was kept out of science and politics.

I just want to quickly chime in about the tone of a few comments. This forum includes a diverse array of backgrounds and opinions; obviously not everyone will agree on all subject matters, especially one as controversial as this. However, referring to people as genetic errors or comparing them to their dogs just rips me apart. An alarming amount of teens are committing suicide because they experience same-sex attraction and do not have anyone trusted to talk to. I was an avid read of PopSci as a kid, and if I were to have read these posts, I would have been emotionally decimated.

If you have a concern about someone who is exhibiting behaviors that you don't agree with or feel puts them at physical, emotional or moral risk, please sit down with them and have a deep and understanding conversation to try to help. Please do not post vague and judgmental comments on the internet -- even if they are not intended to hurt people, they do.

I struggled as a devote Christian teenager when I realized I was more attracted to the same sex. I fought these feelings for years, not acting on urges and lived a heterosexual lifestyle. Eventually I came to the conclusion that I was not happy or truthful with who I was and I accepted that I was gay. I am now happy, partnered for 4 years and planning on having children - I am still a Christian. I don't expect you to understand that; my identity has developed over years of self-reflection, prayer, and studying Canonical and non-canonical history. I respect the fact that you don't agree; I leave each to their own journey.

Back to the topic, I think the fact that scientists observed homosexual sexual encounters in multiple species is fascinating. I loved the interesting posts about how homosexual animals could have possibly came about because they may help nurture a generation. I did pause and wonder when some posts said homosexual behaviors would be bread out by natural selection, but then again that wouldn't explain why they are currently being observed. I think we should study this, write articles about it, and have lively discussions on why it would occur! But, please, let's not attack each other for thinking differently about social or religious implications.

@Titans3775
LOL ... God figured folks would have slaves anyhow so just tried to make them treat their slaves better????

The genetics is not difficult for me to understand. One need only look at the example of the Black Swan where two males will pair up, use a female for procreation and then drive her away. I think most folks are smart enough to realize that the offspring of such a pair has a greater chance of survival thereby promoting the 'gay gene'. Look it up! If you can understand that one, then you can understand that there are endless permutations in many if not all species that keep the same-sex genes alive and well. Plainly put, it has great value to a species especially during hard times.

For me, the issue is quite simple. I would like to think I'm 100% all male but I know that is not possible. There is no such 'animal'. Each of us has a percentage of male and female that defines us physically. Each of us has a different percentage of male and female that defines us psychologically and sexually. The possibilities represent a continuum with most finding themselves reasonably on one side or the other. Some will find themselves on both sides and others will be very close to the center. It is to our advantage that we are not too rigidly structured. Diversity is very important for species survival, possibly even for us humans in the future.

It is natural that those that wrote religiously would attack all those that seemed different from the norm. Religion depends on people falling in step. There is no room for diversity.

Guess this dispells the "choice" or "born that way" argument since creatures are not supposed to be sentient. I have no idea who Jim A is but I'd like to give him a 'bro hug'. Well stated.

That is not what I said. The Bible was written by men that were inspired by God. The fact that they wrote it means slavery already existed. Read It for yourself.

Astounding! Not one (unless I missed it) of these comments actually concerns the title and subject of this article. Here is the first: As anyone who has lived and worked on a ranch or farm can tell you from first hand observation: Cattle, swine, sheep, goats, chickens, dogs, cats, mice, rats...ANY domestic animal (and probably any wild animal) can "...actually be gay." Meaning, specifically: refuse to mate..."breed"...with the opposite sex, or do so only when in a press.

Our cultural "gay" discussions are increasingly distorted by a complete lack of understanding of the real (non-human) biological world. I think it is now about 1.5 percent of the US population that works in agriculture...feeding the rest of us. No wonder 98.5 percent don't have a clue how gross biology works.

Pity.

Were the researchers gay? It makes me wonder since this story is reaching hard for something that simply isn't there. It's called pseudoscience. Unless they absolutely know what animals are thinking then it can't be classified any more than an animal trying to satisfy an urge. If a dog humps a tree, does that mean he desires to specifically mate with trees? Hardly. However, if you classify "gay" as a behavior rather than some kind of hard-wired DNA (of which there is no proof) then maybe the animals are "gay".

@Titans3775
Sorry then. There are plenty of Bible people that think it is the word of a God but there are also plenty like you that don't think this, thankfully. I just took your comment on face value and had a bit of fun with it. And yes, I have read it ... not a very good book and I don't recommend it. :-P

Are you really going to think that its a choice that we are making while the animals are just to stupid to know the difference? That makes absolutely no sense. Did you make a choice to be heterosexual? I don't think so...you were born that way.

BSolomon hit the nail on the head. I cannot expound on those learned comments. I will NOT broach the subject of religion nor nature vs nurture. Those age old arguments shall follow man through the infinity of time. I will add that same sex affinity does perpetuate across the bounds of innumerable species. When it breeches the boundaries of humanity STOP WAIT we are above that type of thing.
This is a salient point because how can this be? GOD any deity of your choice if any has commanded it?! Because we are servants, merely utilizing bodies for our brief existence? Whether I believe such or not is moot. If same sex behavior is observed in nature how does nurture entangle? If such is unnatural then how does such affinity promulgate to these lower creatures? My personal sexual identiy nor religious beliefs have no baring whatsoever unlike JediMind.

@Titans3775 "Try reading the Book from cover to cover before condemning it. I can take many things out of context and make them sound bad."

WOW!!! REALLY??? you are just proving my point 100%!!! I am not condemning the bible AT ALL! not in the LEAST! I am condemning people blind interpretation of bible!!!!!!!!

How can you not understand that in the post. The post I copy and pasted was SACRASIM is!!! how can you not pick up on that? The point was that you can not say the BIBLE condemns homosexually with out accepting ALL the other scriptures blindly. The bible was not meant to allow to to pick and choose what ever you want.
If you say that homosexuals are an abomination and you use the BIBLE as your SOURCE such as Leviticus 18:22 then you can not just IGNORE the other scriptures like Lev15: 19-24, Lev. 19:27. You cant just pick and choose.
please quote me where I condemn the bible.

@Far Out Man, I never said the Bible was false because I believe in God. He told them to write the words, but He did not physically put pen to paper.

@Inaka Most of the things that are covered in the Old Testament applied to peoples of a different age. Homosexuality applies to people of this age. Since slavery no longer is an issue, I do not have to abide by the rule since it does not apply to me. I would follow His Word if the certain situation applied to me. I am gentile so things of the Orthodoxy do not apply to me. I was born unclean while they are considered clean. To clarify things.

Well I guess that this will start a hate wave towards me but i'll still say it. That is probably the same hormonal disorder that some humans have. All those who are not in denial but have some knowladge about how humans function as an organism know that we don't have real freedom of choice, our choices are influenced by hormons our brain and glands produce. If your mothers (while pregnant) or yours are not working properly (produsing testostorone in right amounts) you are likely to be gay.

CAN animals really be Gay? For that squid, the fact that it releases sperm near ALL others, only indicates it cannot tell the difference between males and females. One is reproductively unsuitable, but it expresses no preference and does not meet our definition of the word.

That humans engage in sex for pleasure as well as reproduction means we can attain that goal in a number of reproductively unsuitable ways. We eat nutritionally unsuitable, even harmful foods too. Why? They taste better.

So what's "gay" about? It requires the choice of a reproductively unsuitable partner because that choice feels better.

Anyone ask the animals?

False Issue #1 is homosexuality nature or nurture. It does not matter. Diabetes can be caused by either genetics or diet, so it would seem that a more subtile psycological difference could as well - making any proof of someone "born that way" or "raised that way" evidence valid only for that individual.

False Issue #2 is homosexuality a choice. Obviously it is, because sex is a verb. Someone not having sex is not homo or hetero, they are non-sexual. Attraction or desire does not determine, it only influences, or sexual choices. There are hosts of non-reproductive sexual urges (animal, pedephilia, inanimate, violence, etc) that almost everyone has at least once and very few act upon.

False Issue #3 is homosexuality needs to be DNA linked. Attraction is a psycological phenomenon, which means there does not have to be a biological emperative. If watching a Monk marathon can cause you to act OCD, then it follows that a Will & Grace marathon could change the way you feel as well.

False Issue #4 is that a natural collory has any impact on the morality of the issue (for or against) in humans. If you want to justify your ethics by that standard, then since rape is common in the animal kingdom (and is thus natural) and since it feels good (I assume for the rapist - I have no experience in the matter), then it would have to be allowable.

False Issue #5 is that homosexuality is only denegrated by those with religious issues against it. History would not cover that position (look at the treatment in facist and communist societies - the least religious still outlawed homosexuality). In fact, homosexuality has usually flurished not in non-religious societies, but in societies with strong religious pluralism.

@ Emperor -” If you think homosexuality is a choice or a lifestyle, do the scientific approach, and try it for yourself. Really put your heart and soul into romantically loving and having sex with someone of the same sex. If you are able to sustain a long term relationship with this "new choice" of yours, and be truly happy and satisfied with that new choice, then I will accept your theory.”

That would be quite the self-destructive experiment to undergo simply to convince one individual. The thing is, it would be over before it started, because If anyone is in a position to put their “heart and soul” into a lifestyle, they are already convinced it's worth pursuing. It’s ideology. That’s also the reason you simply cannot keep “religion out of science and politics.” Articles like this inevitably turn to into conversations about “religion” because the term “gay” brings moral implications and moral obligations.

@Titans3775 “Religion depends on people falling in step. There is no room for diversity.”
And what about this statement or the particular worldview you’ve outlined in your comment suggests you are open to anything other than strict adherence to your own philosophy? ANY pursuit of truth is necessary the pursuit of something narrow and exclusive.

This is absurd. Animals and people are gay. Scientific fact. Get over it.

If you want to complain about it stop reading SCIENCE articles and go back to your fake news. There is no debate. Its scientific fact and those in denial are better off reading Popular Fairy Tales than Popular Science.

The title of the article reads “Can Animals Really Be Gay?”
The answer to the question, yes and no.

Yes humans are animals and yes some are Gay.

No to the rest of the animals of the world, because the term (GAY) is a social human word and does not apply to the rest of the animal kingdom.

Can the rest of animal kingdom do odd things we do not expect, yes, like on occasional homosexual activity? But the limitation does not stop there; they do other sexual different things too.

Footnote: Doing something odd, does not necessarily make you bad or wrong in life.

@azaria1
I agree with you about your comment on jedimindset's quote, but what I don't understand is why the speaker's name strikes me as if he is an Muslim or Sihk.

I love how full grown adults are incapable of having a rational argument without busting out their IQ's.
What a joke people, nobody cares what your IQ is if you don't have the logic to back it.
Why not skip the resume and go straight into the interview because I am sick of hearing the fake credentials, you can stroke your own ego somewhere else.

Ever hear of the term s##t kicker. It is an old farm expression.

A person working in the barn needs to care for the animals. Yes the animals make poop; its natural, it happens, its life and it needs to be tend too. Well, a good worker grabs the shovel and scoops it up and puts it away in another place, where it belongs.

Be bad worker that is lazy, will kick it about and hide it under the hay and pretend its not there and make a mess of things. He will cause the whole barn to stink and the animals to eventually be sick.

If you show up to POPSCI to just cause problems, you sir are a s##t kicker.

Stop it.
The adults are not impressed and the real ones you offend are the innocence, the young.

Sure, many animals bonk the same sex. In one zoo, even females mount other females when penned together without males.

Some animals such as various monkeys bugger each other for social reasons, because access to females is scarce and strictly prohibited by the Alpha male... until he's too feeble to put up a charge.

However dogs, monkeys, many animals have far more sophisticated immune systems than humans -- many for genes dedicated to innate immunity.

Also, I learned that squirrels are quite incestuous: mating closely-related with siblings and parents... from 7 to 10+ times everyday. NO WONDER THEY ARE SO HYPERACTIVE -- SUCH FREQUENT BONKING IS FAR MORE STIMULANTING ON THE BIOLOGY THAN CAFFEINE. THEY MUST HAVE GREAT ABS FOR TREE JUMPING!

Presumably recessive genetic diseases were bred out of the squirrel gene pool through successive in-breeding (the diseases perished along with the defective offspring), or perhaps in-bred offspring continue to die due to this social behaviour.

However, it is also well established that male homosexuality is wired within the "feminized brain": an in utero environment that results in this congenital condition.
The male embryo is exposed to "altering" levels of Estrogen whenever the carrying mother is under constant undue stress.
See study citing: significantly more homosexual males were born in the difficult years during and immediatley following WW2 than any decade prior to or since. Estrogen.

Whereas, female homosexuality is often ascribed to excessively high levels of adrenaline in the mother's womb.
See Wiki: Congenital adrenal hyperplasia

However female homosexuality is more complex and may also involve socialization: because women are the standard icon of human beauty, friendships among women are based on disclosure rather than shared activities, and women are generally more emotive than men, the thought of women "liking" women isn't considered abhorrent by a majority of heterosexuals.

Regardless of congenital glitches, everyone ought to be happy in one's own skin. As Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau once said:

"The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation."

Perhaps lobbiest & voting blocks ought not have any "business in the bedrooms of the nation" either.

@mikeoramy, that was not a quote of mine so I have no idea where you got that from. God outlines what is expected of us, I choose whether or not I want to follow his guideline. I choose to, You choose not to. Even if I was not religious, show me two men that can have a baby and I will show you a new believer in gay rights. Seems nature supports my view.

Let me point out that animals are rapists, murderers, and are cannibals too. So basing your morals by animals actions is not a wise idea.

@TITAN3775

I feel sorry for you. slavery is one of the biggest issues the world faces today. Here is little fact for you. "The number of slaves today is higher than at any point in history,[4] remaining as high as 12 million[5] to 27 million,"

"@Inaka Most of the things that are covered in the Old Testament applied to peoples of a different age. Homosexuality applies to people of this age. Since slavery no longer is an issue,"

WHAT!?!?!? says WHO???? says YOU???? do you think just becuase Abraham Lincoln and the 18th and 19th Amendments of the US constitution outlawed slavery and gave freed slaves rights in the USA, all of sudden that those sections of the bible can be ignored??? By your argument all the US states that are granting marriage rights to gay people are now exempt by your so called gods law! and PLENTY of people ALL over the world are still in slavery. So does that means that the old testament applies to them, just not the USA anymore??? I can garuntree you all those slave masters in all the other parts of the world (saldy US included) don think slavery is gone and they happen to enjoy the spoils of slavery very much!

you are taking the bible and gods law and BENDING it to however YOU see fit. you honestly think slavery isn't an issue anymore???

OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery
http://www.freedomcenter.org/slavery-today/

You do realize I live in the US. Slavery is not an issue for me therefore I am of a different age.

@mikeoramy I'm considering a relationship with someone of the same sex. Thus far I've found that men can't provide the emotional support I crave and they can't read my mind like other women; we think very differently. I consider myself Bisexual, I'm attracted to both sexes, one just needs to prove they have the qualities I like.
There is nothing moral about it really from my point of view, it's my life. The only way I can see it relating to moral issues, is that it's my moral duty to be happy, no matter who I want to be happy with. The thing with moral is that it doesn't have a set definition though it has words describing it in the dictionary. Like the word Gay or Queer, it is a fickle word with several meanings.

The thing with this is that people look into it almost too scientifically, staring at biological make-up for hours trying to decode the 'gay' section. Has anyone above who argues that gays don't choose their lifestyle ever talked to one? To many?
I joined a gay and lesbian club as an ally when I came to University. I did it because I was uncomfortable with gays and lesbians and I didn't want to have such prejudice. Also I felt horrible for never standing up for a boy at my school who was openly gay. The friends I've made in the club are amazing people. If one is to hope to 'study' the choice of being a gay or lesbian they must be openminded about the situation, choice or no, and study the concept accordingly. Choice entails a sociological study, asking a lesbian why she chose to be a lesbian, asking a gay why he chooses men over women. Is it physical, mental (how the sexes think differently),or emotional traits they find attractive? Are they attracted my males or females, men or women. (Consider those words carefully they are comparing very different things.)
Perhaps there is merit to biology contributing to their sexual preferences I will not denounce the alternative, as it is unwise to ignore the alternatives altogether. That's a scientific fact.

As for yjakez and DarkRubyMoon. Have you ever had a conversation with someone who acknowledged themselves as gay or lesbian? Perhaps give it a try, but also remember to be OPEN MINDED.

@oakspar77777 excellent comment, beautifully worded.

Re: MissEinstein

Hey, who unlatched the door of the treehouse to a "female" ?!

I thought that only men who have no mate(s) are in this forum. And, do gay people actually read Popular Science?

I thought that only straight un-sexed men are trolling these subjects just as one would examine alien life from fossil remains. Aren't only loveless men reading and putzing with the popsci projects because they are in the garage instead of the bedroom?

Who at PopSci is monitoring these demographics anyway?

I'm just saying....

@Titan3775

Let me point out there really is not a whole lot of deference between the average mans job and the slavery of the bible times. Granted ubduction slavery was practiced but the bible denounced that form of slavery. The slavery that was the norm bares little resemblance to the south African slave trade. Sometimes it was a constant pay but mostly it was a price set ahead of time. It was contractual work basically. So the scripture about slavery is actually more about workers rather than about modern day slavery. Another thing is that while society, culture and technology changes every verse in the bible is just as relivant today as it was then and will be until the rapture.

@Titan3775

Also the passages about idolatry are also apply to today. Idolatry is about Putting things in the place of God. For example I used to be addicted to video games. Anytime I felt shame for sinning rather than giving up my sin to God and repenting of it, I would turn to video games to distract me from the pain. That was idolatry. Basically anything that takes the place of God in your life is idolatry. Also one misconception is that homosexuality is not in the bible. It actually is in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV) says" Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." 
Also it's mentioned several times in the bible. It talks about temple prostitutes who were transgendered men who would sleep with other men at a price. Often times God would be so angered by this he would subject them to horrible wars, famines, and slavery. He also distroyed sodom and Gomorrah in a day because of this same sin. Granted they were doing this in an orgy but God made a point of adding it in so it was a contributing factor.

@TITAN3775 I am sorry I try to be civil and not say things like this but YOU ARE A $$$$ING IDIOT! its becuase of people like you that USA is a has become a waste land of stupid and fat people.

"You do realize I live in the US. Slavery is not an issue for me therefore I am of a different age."

do you REALLY believe this????

do you have any idea how many slaves are in the USA. are shipped to the USA? are shipped from the USA?
are you really that blind and stupid to think that just becuase you live in the USA slavery isnt an issue. that it isnt a problem. are you really that self righteous, to think just because you are an American you can bend gods law to however you feel is correct and that the problems of the world are not and issue becuase you are an American. you are a stupid blind American and slavery is in your VERY backyard! there is not a country or place on earth were slavery is not an issue.

I backed my last argument up with links (sources). have you backed up one of your backwards comments with any sources. Did you read a single line of a single source I posted? then you realize how ingoret and blind you are to think slavery doesn't exist in the USA.

I dont have to bend gods law to my biding. I know for a fact he feels sorry for you. Ingornce must trully be bliss for people like you. "Long live the Fat and Stupid praise the USA!!! slavery isnt an issue for us americans, becuase god is on our side". is that it?

Often in life I see other people living differently and I scratch my heading wondering why they make those choices. But if that person is causing not harm, I try to mind my own business. Is it possible I could be a friend to that person, sure, as long as they do not push their life on me.
Live and let live and as I travel through your own life,
I try to learn.

It has been an interesting read on this article of other people comments. You feel anonymous and so free to speak. I have learned a lot, good bad and what not.

I am staying with my L&L&L philosophy.
The rest of you, take care.
...........................................

inaka_rob,
The best any person can do is state their case or opinion and leave it at that. There are those people who get joy our upsetting others and will always be obnoxious.

@Inaka. Be careful who you offend. You know nothing about me or my life. It is because of me the US has not hit rock bottom because I actually have a job and do not vote for liberal democrats who want to socialize our society further.

Their goal is to make us Europe. Europe is failing and so are morals in this country. Sorry that I do not live in a corrupted big city so I do not ever see slavery. I do not bend God's law. I sin. Therefore I repent and try to do things differently. I am not perfect like you, but I'll take pointers.

You don't like my conservative view then so be it. I go by the Book and what is morally right. I love gay people because I am taught to, but I hate their lifestyle. Please berate me just because I do not conform to your view. God Bless.

I agree with DarkRubyMoon. Nobody picks their sexual preferences. People that want to be with children don't choose that. People that want to be with animals don't choose that either. Who wants to be locked up or ostracized because they are labeled a pedophile? So, DarkRubyMoon and I are in agreement: You cannot help who you want as a sexual partner.
BTW I do not condone bestiality, homosexuality nor pedophilia. imho, it goes against the natural order. Too bad people cannot become squids...

I agree with jedimindset. Homosexuality IS a choice. You do NOT have to agree with me if you don't want to but I have several friends(male and female) that choose to be gay. They all have told me that they choose homosexuality because of the way they have been treated by the opposite sex. I also agree that humans are animals. Specifically part of the subspecies commonly called mammals. I also believe that other animals, being that their minds are not as developed as humans, are only going by their primal instincts. As far as we know the act of the squid may have been that of domination. Like it's the one in charge here. I do believe that you can have mental problems that causes people to not know right from wrong(pedophiles).

And for those people that call themselves Christian, I am going to point out that bible teaches that homosexuality IS WRONG. Specifically, in the old testament, look at what happened with Sodom and Gomorra. Both cities were destroyed because of their homosexuality. I do NOT see how you can call yourself Christian and still be a homosexual. You people act like you can't control anything you do. All these excuses saying that it is not a choice. O, I killed someone and it was not my choice! I'm gay and it's not my choice! Frankly I am sick and tired of hearing all this bull!

These are my beliefs and there is nothing anyone can say or do to change that. You have your beliefs that I know I can't change. Also, If you say that I am infringing on your rights, then know that you are also infringing on my right to free speech and your comments are infringing on my beliefs. Just a little something to think about.

Being ourselves, wonderfully human is a given with choices in what we do, each day, all day long! Duh! This is why we even ponder the question in the article. Yes, obviously we have a choice. We are not amoebae.

Saying we do not have a choice, lol, ha, ha, that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Thank you, oh, my side hurts. ... ha ha. Funny, snort, oh my!
Well it's time for sleep. Thank you for the laugh!
God bless all and please show some tolerance to others! Goodnight! xoxo

One minute people are calling this pseudo science, the next minute they are quoting "God." Newsflash, the Bible is not a Science textbook.

Besides the point, the Bible doesn't talk about homosexuality. Oh sure it has a holiness code that everyone ignores unless politically advantageous for them, and a couple mistranslations that bigots are willing to ignore to suite their purpose. Jesus would have addressed it if it was a great issue.

Instead he talks a lot about Pharisees, who place heavy burdens on people's back and don't lift a finger to help them.

The comments here speak for themselves which camp they are falling into.

@dontbother: You're right, the Bible is not a science textbook. It's more than a science or myth book and it does talk about homosexuality being wrong. It specifically states the idea of men with men and women with women acts to be wrong. It may not spell out homosexuality but last I checked it sure gets close to that word just by what it describes. Again I am refrencing Sodom and Gomorra.

Also, If you say that I am infringing on your rights, then know that you are also infringing on my right to free speech and your comments are infringing on my beliefs.

@s brandon and dontbother. "Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,..."-1Corinthians 6:9. Read the Bible before saying you know something about it Dontbother.

@Titans: I agree, you worded it much better than I could have.

@webpa,
Thanks for your post. This comment stream has really gone way off topic.

The article & the corresponding photo gallery discusses several different studies of animal behavior, not human behavior.

The research seems to indicate a behavior tendency simply towards pleasure or gratification. This is neither "gay" nor curiosity, it's animal behavior. It doesn't correspond to human behavior. Humans are far more complex in our cognitive decision making process than the other species on this planet.

It is important for us to understand other species so that we can better direct our actions to benefit them and ourselves. We are responsible to care for the planet and all its inhabitants. Studies like this help provide important keys to our effective management. We will be held accountable for our actions.

S.Brandon, Titans3775,
I suppose it is good you quote the Holy Bible. It does give you a sense of authority in your words. I feel Christian in my heart. Though in life, when I find a person who calls himself by one name a particular religion, in reality he is just closing out a great quantity of other people. That troubles me. See in my beliefs of Christianity, I have learned my dear Lord loves everyone and created everything and everything is with purpose. Also my dear Lord speaks to the hearts of all people. So for me to just close my mind to others of different religions, different cultures, and different languages and so on, well just seems wrong.
We Christians have a long history of allowing our own belief system to be corrupted. This cycle just repeats itself over and over again. But this is a human thing too. Being corrupted happens to all humans eventually and repeatedly. It’s very hard to be pure, when we are not and our environment is so much chaos perpetual.
My suggestion to you if you want to help someone towards god is simply pause, listen, care and be their friend. Try to feel and see things from their point of view. You have to remember; God made them with love and loves them now at this very second. You may actually learn something, should your eyes open and become their friend and see things from their point of view.
I suggest, do not be so quick to judge. Fall back to the Christian beliefs you know and be a friend and just care. Be yourself, be honest and learn compassion.

The tender loving approach condemns them to Hell no matter how much God loves them. Read the quoted Bible verse, it is as clear as possible. I'm doing them a favor by pointing out that even though God loves even the most sinful of creations, He will not protect you in the end from your own free will.

@TITAN you bend my words to your will just like you bend gods. dont god bless me. you have no right to "god bless" me you wont even acknowledge the daily suffering of millions of people becuase you are so blind to the world we live in.
this has nothing to do with Europe or the USA or jobs, I brought none of those political or economic issues into the conversation.

I just think you are an arrogant, closed minded, typically vain American/christian.

I am an American as well, am also very flawed. but I dont bend gods god words to fit my idea of the world nor deny the reality of life as you do.

there are good Christians, and then their are vain closed minded Christians.

you have no right to "god bless me" becuase YOUR god is one of your own creation.

@Inaka, Since I havent quoted you it is kind of hard to bend your words. The words of the Lord are written in red so I have no need to bend them to my will. If I do not follow them then I have sinned. Supporting gay marriage therefore would be a sin.

The issue is as black and white as there can be. I am a Christian who actually believes in the words written in the Bible and if that makes me vain to you then so be it!

Got under your skin a little to be blessed eh? Does it scare you that if you are right you and I gain nothing, but if I am right then you lose it all and I gain Heaven. You are on the losing end of Pascal's Wager. I am a creation of God so I owe it all to Him.

Please be offended. I have not attacked you once, but then again I am vain. Oh well. GOD BLESS YOU!

Hi Titan,

You're quotes are mistranslations. We know this because "homosexuality" was not even formulated as an idea and defined until about 100 years ago. So it is impossible for this to be an accurate translation.

Besides the fact, most Christians don't worship the Bible as God, so quoting it isn't going to help. Especially not in SCIENCE arguments.

Anyhow, PopSci, I have to say this is a bit embarrassing you've had all this gone on. I'm guessing its for the pay for click on the advertisements. Still, since you had your Site Rules recently posted that clearly stated you would not allow offensive attacks on minorities, it seems that you've decided to ignore these rules. Disappointing.

I used the New Living Translation because it was the easiest for others to understand. The other translations say the same thing just with different vernacular.

If anyone is getting attacked it would be Christians since I'm sure we are a minority on this site. I don't worship the Bible as a God, but I do acknowledge it as His words.

I cannot wrap my brain around the idea; everything was made in 6 days, POOF! You know, it was just last week nothing and now were all sitting around the camp fire, writing down bible stories for future people to read.
It just does not fit.

But, I see the bible as lessons to learn in life and help with a spiritual journey.

I agree we will all individually be judged.

But in the meantime, it has been delegated to us all to care about each other and yes use compassion.

If we were able to wrap our minds around it then He wouldn't exactly be God now would he?

So as I understand your words, God is incomprehensible to you and all you have is words on a book to follow literally. Ok then, I understands how we differ.

Hey Bubba. Why did Blue and mp get terminated?

God is incomprehensible to us all. He is immense in nature and we are are far from understanding. If you claim otherwise then you are a fool. I doubt you are smarter than me, but even still I can fall to my knees and give thanks for the gifts I have been given. Yes we do differ.

@Reiki, dont be offended by my last comment about intelligence, I did not mean it negatively just to prove a point. Obviously we are both smart enough to have an intelligent conversation on this website. It was just for arguments sake.

This is clearly off topic, but I would like to see if I can try to help @Titans3775 see a different side.

As one reader mentioned, the word homosexuality cannot appear in the Bible because it was not defined until the late 19th century. There are several different words that are incorrectly translated as homosexual, but a common one was male-on-male rape. In Biblical times this was used to humiliate an opponent. Often these were heterosexual males who were raping men in order to assert dominance. A far cry from the modern understand of two men or two women deeply loving and caring for each other.

Secondly, I would like to correct the Sodom and Gomorrah comments. S&G were destroyed because they were inhospitable. As you can see in Ezekiel 16:49 "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy" and also Jesus himself comments in Matthew 10:14-15 "If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town."

But to sum everything up, Jesus is clear in Mark 12:30-31: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”

In fact, if you are opening your Bible to Mark 12, read a few paragraphs earlier where the Pharisees and Sadducees are testing Jesus by quoting Old Testament Scripture regarding marriage. He has some pretty interesting responses; Jesus never seemed to be much of a fan when the self-righteous quote Scripture to pass judgement. To me, he was all about Love.

For some us gay Christians, we feel God's love and find meaning in His Word differently then others might.

Love in Christ.

@JimA, I am glad you actually took the high road to have a discussion with me and I am more than glad to talk to you! Here is the case that I present to you. I agree with you that the Lord is awesome and he loves each of us gay or not. Denying Christ is the only unforgivable sin and until someone does that then they always have hope.

But alas as much as He loves you and me, He has provided more verses to view for us.

"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." (Leviticus 20:13)

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion. ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you." (Leviticus 18:22-24)

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

In these verses there is no issue of mistranslation because the first verse is stated as well it can be. There is another verse that says homosexuals can inherit the Kingdom of God if they renounce their sin.

(GAY) is a human social term, for a human social response that happens occasional within our own species. The word, gay, it is a human slang. We do not use this slang in describing the rest of the other animal kingdom; least not scientifically. I believe all the comments about this is way over kill. But, that is me.

@Titans3775 I do love a good discussion!

As mentioned before by @inaka_rob, Leviticus was code of law book that list many many rules for the Jewish community. Leviticus contains many laws about burning offerings, slavery, cleanliness, diet restrictions, etc. If fact, Leviticus also states it is an abomination (same word!) to eat shellfish. I personally don't think that any one who regularly eats shrimp without repenting to Jesus won't get into heaven. However I do respect you may interpret this book differently and more literally. But if you are hold gay men and women in accountable for not following all of Leviticus to the letter of the law, you too should ensure that you are following all the guides. No eating pork and no talking to women during their period! And should you cave in and eat a shrimp (Lev 11:12), make sure to slaughter a goat publicly (Lev 1:27) for your sins! Leviticus is very clear on what to do if you have sinned.

Of all the rules in Leviticus, why do folks focus men lying with men as an abomination? Why not eating shellfish which is also an abomination? What makes one Leviticus rule such a key issue and the other not?

In reference to the Romans quote, Paul was writing a very important letter to 1st Century Roman citizens. This was a time when paganism, idolatry, sexual perversion were rampant. The context of your quote of Romans is Paul talking about their idolatry of reptiles and animals (see a few versus earlier). He was making a point that those who do not worship God will fall to unnatural urges. First of all, I do worship God, so why then would he smite me with these urges? Second of all, my same-sex attraction is natural to me; it would be very unnatural (and uncomfortable!) for me to try to be romantic with a woman. And thirdly, I feel Paul is describing an orgy here. Men committing shameful acts with other men, lusting after each other. Sounds very dirty. Not my lifestyle, not one bit.

I personally believe that this all comes down to Spirit of the Law versus letter of the law. 2 Corinthians 3:6 "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." Again I would point out that in Biblical times men were forcefully raping other men, and in Roman society young men were pressured in sexual relations with older men. This is not what being gay means to me. My loving relationship with my partner of 4 years is not what Leviticus or Paul's Epistles were referring to. But at the end of the day, this may be where we see things differently. I think God reveals himself to each of us in very individual ways.

Leviticus was indeed written for people mostly Jewish Orthodox before Jesus was crucified. Since that happened though we no longer have to go by the rules such as sacrificing animals since Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice.

However, some of the rules in Leviticus were re-iterated later in the New Testament such as those against Homosexuality. Many of the other rules were for a matter a cleanliness since there were not many advances in medicine and such. I can see why shellfish would be banned. It is a scourge to the tongue and is truly gross haha

Back to the point though, male rape is covered in one of the verses I have posted earlier on then later in the verse homosexuality is covered. When people say homosexuality is not covered I could say the same for orgies and such.

I do not remember the verse, but back to Sodom when Lot's sons and daughters and their spouses went to his house the door to the house was attacked by those wishing to do homosexual acts to both sons and daughters. Yet another reason why they were destroyed.

Agreed that there was good reason to ban shellfish back then, but the modern world it is no longer needed. In the same way, men laying with men was once an issue (non-loving, violent relationships) and it's not always a problem in modern times.

The passage you are thinking of for S&G is Genesis 19:4-5 "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" It's a gang of villagers trying to rape Lot. That's not gay; that's terrible. Lot's solution is try to offer his two virgin daughters to have the gang to "do with them what they like." This passage is not a lesson on how to solve problems today.

It all ties back to the examples you keep citing refer to rape, violence, idolatry, etc. I agree that all these are sins against God. My Love for my boyfriend is not.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,..." - 1 Corinthians 6:9

The end of that verse does not sound like rape. It sounds like something graphic that only a man and woman should do. It does not help either that most newer versions of the Bible are based on the King James version. When King James himself was a proclaimed gay himself and had many verses changed and thrown out by the writers who feared his wrath.

Yup you have to be careful with translations. The original Greek words in Paul's lists include malakos and arsenokoites. Different versions translate these as homosexual, sodomites, effeminate, soft and male prostitutes. However, a widely accepted translation of malakos in context is "A boy who has a sexual relationship with a man" which refers to either pedophilia, prostitution or both. Arsenokoites simply means "offenders."

But it's all Greek to me! =)

Listen yall, i gots to tell ya somethin thats just gonna break some lil queers hearts, but homosexuality is not right. the anus is for the disposal of waste, not the takin-in and women need to keep their stuff in theyre own kitchen. by the way, did yall see that dog? its the dog that got hit by a bus and now it has 1 eye, 3 legs, and a detatchable shotgun! now, to be serious, gay is not the way. Good night yall! I'll be here all week!

Do any of your remember the article and how to focus. It seems you all have gone a little gay ward.

ooops, way ward, lol.

Of course, maybe fate had it right the first time.

@JediMindset

I can only presume you're straight by the comment you made, but I have a question for you.

WHEN DID YOU CHOOSE TO BE STRAIGHT?

There are 1,500 recorded animal species who practice homosexuality, yet only one on the entire planet that is homophobic; guess which one that is!

PopThis,
You seem angry and yet odd all at the same time.

Let the anger go and just find happiness in life.

Chill. ;)

@Titans3775
"that was not a quote of mine so I have no idea where you got that from. God outlines what is expected of us, I choose whether or not I want to follow his guideline. I choose to, You choose not to. Even if I was not religious, show me two men that can have a baby and I will show you a new believer in gay rights. Seems nature supports my view."

Sorry, I erroneously quoted Far Out Man and attributed it to you since he quoted you in his post. My mistake. I'm actually with you on your comment.

@MissEinstein, I have talked to several gays, and I do get the sense that the desires they feel are very deep rooted, and more than one has offered very much the same reasoning you have about morality. It takes a back seat to desires. Your point of view is that morality is irrelevant and indefinable. Yet you hold very tightly to moral values: that we all ought to have emotional support; that other people are obligated to prove likeable qualities; that you have a “moral duty to be happy”; that it’s morally wrong to be too scientific about this; that we should stand up for bullied kids; that open-mindedness is morally right. You probably don’t accept that views opposite yours are morally right (i.e. that bullying is good), so you are perhaps not as open-minded as you imply. You and I and everyone else clearly have moral obligations that originated outside of our own whims. The only rational source for moral code that we all live by (even using morality to deny it) is a moral Being, in whose likeness we are made, able to write moral law on our hearts (Rom. 2:15). By denying universal, objective morality, you have to appeal to it in the process.

I think it totaly possible because us as humans can be gay so y cant animals be that way cause arnt we animals so this article is right animals can choose one sex over the other just like us

YOU ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS!! :) Dont let anyone tell you being gay is wrong. They just wont understand of course since they're not in the position were're in.

WOW this article has stirred up many viewpoints. Religious, scientific, observed & word of mouth. Perhaps instead of debating amongst ourselves we should look a little more into the human psyche?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
I feel this answers a great many questions about behavior.

As a scientific argument, let's please remember that yes, humans are mammals. Mammals are animals. Everything on Earth is plant, animal, or mineral. Whether animals are "gay" or not has no influence on human morals.

If you read the article and looked at the gallery of photos with explainations, you would discover that quite a few of the studies included animals who preferred same-sex coupling, only switching to heterosexual mating to precreate.

If we translate this to human behavior (a risky endeavor at best because humans are more dangerous and nefarious creatures than "wild creatures" any day in my opinion) then doesn't it follow that the homosexual relationships followed in the study are not ones of rape or violence but ones of caring and tenderness?

As to all of the Bible argumentation. Yes, in the Old Testament, it does rail against the abomination of homosexuality. Then Jesus comes and His law is to love one another. Not judge, not yell, not throw your point of view down someone else's throat. I don't feel that arguing over any format about how God is supposed to be honored or who is going to Heaven or Hell is how He would want human time to be spent. Instead, couldn't we work on other things like, world hunger?

I am what I would consider myself to be a bi-sexual woman in that I used to practice lesbian sexual practices, had several wonderful female partners who remain good friends that we just couldn't make things work out for whatever reasons (like any normal relationship can do) but have found myself being more attracted towards men lately. I have been with both men and women in the past, but have been celibate for 4 years by choice. Having seen both sides of the rainbow, and lived by the prejudices forced by others who hated me when I was happy with my girlfriends-no one chooses to be hated. No one chooses to have their cars keyed, hate mail received, etc. If I were to fall in love with another woman, I would be with her...no doubts, no choice.

As to the procreation argument, I have been sterile since 2007...if procreation were the only reason for a relationship, I couldn't EVER have one. End of story.

People will rationalize anything to not feel wrong. So then what is right, since no one is wrong? People want what they want and do not want anyone to tell them no you cannot have that or no you s should not do that.

As you make choices in life, there are consequences to those choices. Humans will work to receive what they want and move around obstacles too.

When one person says something is wrong, another says I think that thing is right, so they what is left is to prove what is wrong and right. In our country, USA, we have freedom of religion. And there are those who have no religion at all. We as a society are supposed to learn tolerance for other people’s choices to live there own life freely in their philosophies about life. In my opinion the same idea that supports the law of freedom of religion also indirectly supports gay marriage and gay life style.

As a USA society, we need to be tolerating of others and yes supportive of this freedom too.

Gay is a social human term and it applies to humans. All other animals cannot be gay, because they do not share our social outlook. But yes they can be homosexual sometimes; it the wild of life, variety just happens. Since we cannot read the mind of another animal species we do not know its social structure or why it makes it choices.

I am for tolerance and always oppose to violence of any kind. Oh, I am not gay. Those who are religous will find their own judgement at the end. It is not for me to judge.
We are all individuals are are responsible for our own choices.

Gay animals? Seems pretty likely, quite frankly.

Now, what about smarter? Do you think dogs are smarter than cats? Or are cats smarter than dogs?

I've always wanted to know that.

I was on this site, thisvsthatshow.com and they did a series of experiments to find out.

Pretty interesting stuff.

You should check it out.

Stray dogs that sometimes assemble in groups especially if there is hunted food around often show tendencies of selecting to mate a male one on one, although there were female dogs around. On a different note than the subject of 'gay'the male wolves and chimpanzees that move in clans show authoritative dominance by subjecting the male subordinate to crouch low so that they can discipline them with male organ penetration.

I have a lot of respect for gay men because they come out in the open to say who they are. They take a lot of "un-called- for" gay bashing, yet they stand solid in their orientation to uphold their rights. Another group of people that I respect are those that openly proclaim they are BI-sexual and look for similar swingers. There are married men of despicable character who prey on boys or who secretly have sex with another man; many of these shady characters are known conservatives and religious, but the worst perverts are generally found in all types of educated class of people whether they are married educationists, doctors, nurses, lawyers, businessmen, engineers, scientists. I named some of these professionals perverts because they are the second most offenders who are mostly hypocrites when they are confronted to confess having a dual-perverted-life.