Pluto May Be Hiding Oceans Underneath Its Frozen Exterior

yeah thats right, now hes laughing at us !

(now what? back to the "planet" statue again? )

bored? lets go mine the stars... ^^

So they reckon it could harbor life eh? I guess it's time we bring it back to planet status (even though it isn't really a planet) before the angry Plutonians come and kill us for being a bully.

Why does the word planet matter? Pluto is Pluto, that is all! Darn Pop-sci! when you post articles like theses be more thorough! this article is a paragraph at best.

More info please, and no a link to the original article is not a link, it's just laziness. I love you Pop-Sci but it seems like the quality of writing is going down the drain! I agree with Quality over quantity but when there's no quality worth mentioning then it's just neither! and that's no good.

I suppose Pluto is to the modern world, what the world was to the old before Galileo.

Our modern science in each and every day realizes our earth and us earthlings are smaller and smaller and have to search to new definitions of who we are and our local planets. Yes sometimes our naming convention changes as we discover in the cosmos how much more there is to know.

How old is our current we know civilization? Is is 6 thousand years or 10 thousand years or even to the extreme 20 thousand years old. How old is the earth as we currently understand it. Its believed to be 4.7 billion years old. How old is the cosmos itself. It is said to be 44 to 45 billion years old. Though some mathematicians and scientist have said that the cosmos could have expanded and collapse and expanded countless times.

Well if in one universe, in one past civilization, a person created the ability was extremely advance in knowledge and health, created the ability to actually time travel via string theory or worm holes or something not even thought of and spoken of, what would that lead too?

Perhaps this single person as they step in this time travel machine would go to the absolute future of civilization and learn all the knowledge they could and become all they could and venture back in time to their own birth or just prior and toy with its own DNA make up and make past self better. Perhaps this leader in the time machine would do all it could in a positive way to improve itself in all things possible, future and present and it then becomes a constant cycle for itself and become the one identity because it was first, PERFECT!

This one identity that has become PERFECT. Now because this one identity has become perfect, to maintain its own status as perfect and to continue on, must never touch another single thing, EVER!
It will forever be distant from all other things. If it touches another thing, it will fall backwards to the real material world and then begin again to be common as everything else and no longer mortal and no longer perfect.

This perfect single being does have memory of all the past and feeling of all things around it. It cares and understands life and its purpose. This single being cares and loves the cosmos and wants to be as close as it can to it, but it too does not want to die, so this means it can never really touch it again, as in the beginning.

The earth is one planet. Humanity is just one species. The universe is massive and beyond our own imagination. The cosmos is beyond our own imaginations.

This single being that is perfect, YES is beyond our own imagination too and yes LOVES US!

Lord is just a name of a King and in control and begger than ourselves.

Our dear Lord speaks to the hearts of all men and woman and the majority of humans on earth have a sense of its presence. We are individuals and so we each have our own experience and also influence by our own local enviroment and social factors. We even love our own familys and local towns and adopt their beliefs with the intent of love. So as we humans are imperfect and even with love in our hearts we get life and its message wrong.

Still our Dear LORD wispers in our heart and says know me, I create you, praise me and give thanks and love those around you. Search your own heart and you will find me, I am there!

Gods that exist in books assumed to be authoritative simply because the book itself says it is authoritative are even less to be trusted than the SWAGs (Scientific Wild-Ass Guesses) of scientists who think that maybe, possibly, something might be true.

The scientist is generally prepared to change his mind should he find proof that he is wrong or that his view needs to be refined.

The believer generally chooses what he already believes and ignores what he sees with his own lying eyes.

It takes desperation to go from the possibility that there might be water under Pluto's ice to a missive about the existence of some god or another. Almost as if one is trying to convince him/her self.

As I say always...LOL to anyone bringing god into this

I can bring my god into this.

Gozer the Gozerian is pissed that everyone but me believes in the wrong gods.

So god thinks he's better than us does he? Calling us common? He seems like an arrogant fool to me seeing how he was originally just a 'common' like us. Stop preaching stupid rubbish Tamiko...

There is life on other planets for sure!

"There is life on other planets for sure!" thank you for stating the probable. but thats not the point of this article at all.

I think its great that Pluto has been down graded, because it gave the rise to the other 4 offical dwarf planets. and read this quote from wiki "It is suspected that at least another FIFTY known objects in the Solar System are dwarf planets, and estimates are that up to 200 dwarf planets may be found when the entire region known as the Kuiper belt is explored, and that the number might be as high as 2,000 when objects scattered outside the Kuiper belt are considered."

as our understanding of the solar system expands, our definitions must change as well. I mean... dont you think people were disappointed when earth was no longer the center of the entire universe. Its along those lines I suppose. as our understanding grew, we realized Pluto was not a planted, but a member of a much larger group of dwarf planets that we had no idea even existed.

@ Tamiko

The cosmos are not speculated to be 45 billion years old by any credible scientist.

The most accurate measures are between 13-14 billion years old.

Opinions are welcome and a differing opinion can always be refreshing, but lets try to keep the information that makes up those opinions factual.

My propose ideas use the old English words of Lord and King and never says GOD. Lord and King is often used in history of a person who was a leader among men and community. You all assume the rest. I only suggest another civilization, much more advance and the use of technology to further itself and its effect upon the cosmos. My whole story was of aquired knowlegde and the use of technology.

I never force my ideas upon you. Are you currently free to choose what you think now?

Galileo moved the earth from the center of our solar system and as we advance in science we often have to change our naming conventions with new knowledge.

I also believe if we can dream it and think it in science and technology it’s just a matter of time before we find it or make it a fact. Maybe we will see these things in our life time or not in achieving our dreams and goals. But, I think all things are possible, given enough effort and yes time.

I hope we go back to Pluto and explorer every since inch or meter of it, above and below the ocean and all its oceans!

We can't assume that it is possible to attain perfection, because there may be no such thing as absolute perfection in the real world. We can't assume that time travel is possible either or iterative loops where we transfer future knowledge back into the past.

Some beings and civilizations may indeed be far more advanced than we are, and they could be way too far for us to find them at present. All the power and activity is at the centers of galaxies. One would expect more advanced civilizations to dominate that high ground.

As far as the assumption that these beings are necessarily loving, just because they are more advanced, that does not really follow. I doubt they are any more desirous of our praise than we are of the praise of an ant or a flea. Such beings do not need our approval or validation, nor is it clear why they would be looking inside of us, reading our thoughts.

For the present, we must carry on, as though they did not exist, since, until they show themselves or act in some significant way, they are indistinguishable from that which does not exist.

@Tamiko
So this Lord person is a big know-it-all who chooses to lie to us instead of helping us become his equals?
Why doesn't he just go back in time and fix OUR so imperfections?

A contented species becomes weak and complacent, and falls into sloth and stagnation. Why do you think the dodo bird is now extinct? They were so complacent, we wiped out the entire species by walking up to them and beating them over the head with a club. If a supreme being solved all of our problems for us, we would become like the dodo bird, no drive, no purpose but to eat, sleep, defecate, and copulate. So what would be the point of having sapiance if we don't drive to be something greater than what we are at present?

Back to the topic, however. Earth may not have as much potassium in it's core as Pluto may have, but we have much higher levels of fissionable elements in the mantle, like uranium and thorium. These elements are fissioning in a manner akin to a molten salt reactor, and is part of the reason earth can support life. If Mars had a higher radioisotope content in it's mantle, it could also support complex lifeforms like those found on earth.

Dear killerT, I projected this story from my imagination. I tried to answer your question by dialing the phone number in my head, but found the single to busy, you will have to try again later, so sorry.

For any other superior intelligent civilization in outer space helping us or not, lying to us or not, playing with us or not, I guess it would be up to them. Go ask them. I am out of that loop.

Oh, killerT, the line stop being busy and I have an answer for you now.

I suppose why a superior race would not help us to be equal; well maybe they are helping us, but only helping us in a very slow way. Maybe the outside alien intelligence do not think wise to put a loaded pistol in the hands of toddler.

Dear aarontco, ok, time travel not possible. Well consider this possibility. A civilization extremely old and absolutely wise moves beyond the edges of the cosmos and in facts watches its collapse and its re-opening. These beings are yet bigger and broader and wiser that all we can conceive of the cosmos. So in this case no time traveling machine needed. They simply keep their distance of that pesky big bang in that single moment it happens to return later when the seas of stars are bit more calmer.

To Great Big Pwner, so sorry, yes yes our cosmos is thought to be 13-14 billion years old. I was thinking about the neighboring cosmos of which the above superior race being retreat too as they watch our cosmos collapse and have its big bang part. Ooops, I have too many cosmos in my head at the moment. It has been a busy day and all.

Currently the wisest comments above I think goes to
inaka_rob, for adding more relevant information and trying to stay on track to the article. Thank you inaka_rob, I appreciate you focus.

I only counted 4 sentences from the POPSCI article and well it fell kind of anemic. I wish POPSCI would have spoken much more. This is why I added my few imaginary comments.

Feel free to follow the lead of inaka_rob. ;)

Someone who cant express himself in one sentence, is not a scientist.

PS: we are lazy, thats why E=mc^2

bored? lets go mine the stars... ^^

New Scientist, it is disingenuous for you to say "Pluto is not a planet anymore" when that statement constitutes not fact but just one view in an ongoing debate. Only four percent of the IAU voted on this, and most are not planetary scientists. Their decision was immediately rejected by hundreds of professional astronomers in a formal petition led by New Horizons Principal Investigator Dr. Alan Stern. Ironically, Stern is the person who first coined the term "dwarf planet." However, he intended it to refer to a third class of planets in addition to terrestrials and jovians, small planets large enough to be rounded by their own gravity but not large enough to gravitationally dominate their orbits. He never intended for dwarf planets to not be considered planets at all. What is wrong with having three classes of planets, with the dwarf planet subcategory having 20, 200, or 2,000 planets in this solar system? Arbitrarily limiting the number of planets for convenience has no scientific rationale. Viewing dwarf planets as a subtype of planets actually is an extension of the Copernican principle because it tells us that "planets," including Earth, are not a few, "special" objects, but that they are numerous in our solar system and in our universe.

As for online access to this information, its located in this link but seems for these sorts of scientific public articles it costs money.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019103511003320

Am sure Popular Science have access to this resource for free no doubt so would help for a extra 20minutes to be put into detailing the claims a bit more.

can we please keep religion out of this 100%. it is ridiculous! You are free to feel and believe what ever you what but this is a website DEDICATED to science. I don't come here to hear your (often vain) beliefs on god and religion. It is OFF topic!!!

I know this is free country and you are free to type what ever you want. if that is the case then I can type up obscene sex acts and F%%%% this and F%%%% that. that is my right just as much as it yours to type god this and god that. Do you want that????

I am asking all of you for the courtesy to stay ON topic!

@laurele interesting comment and view point. are u for or against the dwarf planet classification? "Arbitrarily limiting the number of planets for convenience has no scientific rationale"
"hat is wrong with having three classes of planets,"
either way. thanks for the extra info.

lol @ Tamiko sounding like bubbagump. oh it doesn't matter that pluto could harbor life. its not like we would know the definite answer anytime this century. maybe 3 centuries after we go to mars in the year 3012.

_________________
The people of the world only divide into two kinds, One sort with brains who hold no religion, The other with religion and no brain.

- Abu-al-Ala al-Marri

JediMindset, Good morning, happy Sunday to you. I wish you comment longer. I also get the impression you are a highly educated man and so in this I appreciate your thoughts. I always enjoy your comments. Why do you feel it does not matter if Pluto could harbor life? Why do you believe it will be 1000 years in the future before we go to Mars? And they you suggest it would take 3 centuries of exploring Mars before we find life there. Why so long?

inaka_rob, I type the words ‘colorful metaphor’ or to say a ‘curse’ word you do understand what I mean, without actually saying the bad thing. Now I personally believe all humans on earth are intelligent. I understand there are those that believe unless you have a formal education they are not; I believe you are one of those people. You negativei thoughts and cryptic bad words in association with religion. WOW! Did you offend a great mass of people. Do you do understand the quantity of people you offend? Also there are a great mass of religous people who do have higher education, Masters and Doctorines. I also believe children are intelligent and you offend them with you words too. Children to read this website.

As I look at you icon, I do feel it represents you so perfectly. As you walk out the door of the house and your sweet educated neighbors wave to you and wish you a Bless Day, it is like nails on a chalk board and you consider the rest of the world something lower to yourself. I suppose you snub your nose all day long and yes this icon is you.

We have just mind boggling amount of rocks, astroids and more in the stars. I suppose it will always be problematic to aquire a naming convention. As science discovers more on earth and is the heavens, yes I understand the naming of things will change and evolve. I grew up with Pluto being a planet and so for sentimental reasons, I like to see Pluto continue being a planet.

Now as much as you want to stomp and whine to what you believe POPSCI is, it’s not your call or decision. You do realize it’s a public magazine for the masses? I do find POPSCI exciting, informative, creative, awe inspiring, surprising at time and more. I find it excellent entertainment. But if I was currently attending a college and had to produce a term paper I would not quote it directly in my term paper as a source of information from POPSCI. Imagine a person working on a Doctrine and used the magazine POPSCI and the single source or credits in proposal. No, no, no, I do not think so. Now let me be clear, I do believe the all the POPSCI magazine tries as reliable as possible to be well reliable. I do consider them a source to something new for science and society. I do respect the writers of POPSCI.

In the above article I wish POPSCI could have added much detail about PLUTO. To go and explore PLUTO and to fund $$$$ a project of this size would need the public’s support. So you need to make the community to FEEL a part of this project. Good information and familiarity is how communities come together.

If JediMindset believes it will be 1000 years in the future it will take to establish ourselves on MARS, I can only imagine it will be longer for PLUTO too.

There is no scientist I am aware that can explain how the original matter of the cosmos came into existence in the first place. You may say we have big bangs and cycles of big bangs, but no one I am aware of knows how the matter\material source came to be. They also cannot imagine beyond anything larger than the cosmos itself.

Are you really sure there is no GOD? GOD is just a English word, from one of many languages. The font is itself an icon of sorts and really has no particular meaning. You need to go to the depths of things to find true meaning.

I adore exploring life and all its wonders. I am by all accounts an amateur scientist as we all are. We are just using our minds to that what our LORD has made. LIFE IS JUST BEAUTIFUL!

Responses, longer then the articles? OMG Tamiko is BuBBA! My lord king is back! :O

Yeah, notice how "bubba" doesn't comment anymore, but tamiko does...

although, bubba does sure make the comments section fun to read!

"Are you really sure there is no GOD?"
who said this? no one said this. in fact most scientists and educated people believes in god. it is a misconception that most scientists and like minded people are atheists.

The difference is that most educated people know when to keep their opinions to themselves and not try spread their belief system and ideologies on other people ESPECIALLY when it has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand.

did you mother really raise you that poorly?its simple social etiquette. any body with ANY social skills KNOWS you don't talk about MONEY, POLITICS, and RELIGION with a stranger, in public, or people who are not your friends or family.

Its just as annoying when people bring Bush or Obama into one of theses comment sections. God is NO different.

NO ONE said they don't believe in GOD. its just that its RUDE to talk about what you believe in and none of your FUCKING BUSINESS!

Driving down the road I saw this old car what look like 50 more years old. It was of a complete rust color, decomposing into the environment. Under the car life appeared dead, at least from a distance observing.

Following this, I wonder as we send probes to Mars and say Pluto, if life does exist there, I wonder if we humans may contaminate it by showing up. Yes, I believe scientist and NASA does all that is possible to sterilize our probes. The probes metals, electronics, energy sources, insulation and all the physical things of the probe,may as it decomposes over 50 years change the environment around it?

Which also brings me to a article I read a while back about a Russian discovery.
"....In the early 1990s, a Russian drilling rig encountered something peculiar two miles beneath the coldest and most desolate place on Earth. For decades, the workers at Vostok Research Station in Antarctica had been extracting core samples from deep scientific boreholes, and analyzing the lasagna-like layers of ice to study Earth’s bygone climate. But after tunneling through 414,000 layers or so– about two miles into the icecap– the layers abruptly ended. The ice below that depth was relatively clear and featureless, a deviation the scientists were at a loss to explain. In search of answers, the men drilled on.

Unbeknownst to the Russians, their drill had mingled with the uppermost reaches of one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world; a pristine pocket of liquid whose ecosystem was separated from the rest of the Earth millions of years ago. As for what sort of organisms might lurk in that exotic environment today, no one can really be certain...." http://www.damninteresting.com/raiders-of-the-lost-lake/

Scientist today worry in the exploration of this lake not contaminates or corrupt its environment.

Exploring the earth and the stars is a complicated problem as to not disturb what you are observing and change the result of what you find.

Since Tamiko is obviously Bubba Gump, and apparently didn't learn anything from being banned, can we ban him/her/it as well? It was nearly utopian for like 24 hours.... well, except for BG posting pages of people's out-of-context comments as "verbal abuse" trying to get some sort of revenge...
Honestly, Bubba, your whole routine is getting tired and old, and it got you banned at least once. Don't you think that the people at PopSci have better stuff to do than listen to complaints about you and ban you?

It seems to me Pluto was reclassified for no other reason than for one or a group of scientists to make a pointless argument and take credit for a "Earth shattering," discovery for the sake of their professional image.

A plutoid makes no logical sense based on how other celestial bodies (particularly other than planets) are classified. Pluto is either a terrestrial planet or a planet sized asteroid or planetoid if you will. Plutoid is just someone trying to become popular for originating a hip hop-esque catch phrase.

joshmon999, What did Tamiko do wrong exactly?
Why do you think she is banned now?

What do you think of this link at POPSCI?
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2011-09/how-greenest-skyscraper-complex-ever-rising-out-rubble-world-trade-center#comments

And Aldrons Last Hope, persistant conspiracty comments.
I believe that article is up to 126 comments and most of them going back and forth of comspiracty.

I see lots of people of all different logins making long commentaries, often.

So exactly on this article, what did Tamiko do wrong and how was Tamiko offensive, facts? You did read completely all the commments right.

I just notice something from your profile joshmon999.
Your profile is a little over 1 week old and the only thing you say is bad thing about this old Bubba guy.
Huh?!

You do not have any problems with any other people? You enjoyed all the above comments and approve of inaka_rob? He did some cursing above.

This seems like a rigged game, a lynching of sorts.
Do you work for POPSCI?

I do not think Tomiko is anyone except Tomiko. Tomiko said nothing offensive.

If a cosmic collision, significant enough to put Earth into a highly eccentric obit, were ever to occur, two things would be
certain:
Earth would still be a planet.
There would be no debate to the contrary.

As stewards of the money that is given for scientific inquiry, and given is the word in this case, scientists have an obligation to see that it is not wasted on debating meaningless matters of opinion.

Yes, I actually created an account to comment for the first time after years of reading here, with the express purpose of raging at BG for pretty much ruining every single conversation about anything ever. Commenting on EVERY article. Geez, can't you leave just ONE alone?

I could care less about your little attack on me, you're probably BG too, since I've seen him use at least 4 nicknames, and 'Surprise!', looks like YOUR account is only 1 week 1 day old, just about when BG got canned.

Sick of him derailing everything, talking about 20 different unrelated things, he has typed line after line of songs, poetry, you name it. Sick of it. If you dont like it, tough, I am NOT the only person who feels this way.

WHy don't you just take all your fake accounts and go to a nice UFO conspiracy forum? I'm sure they will LOVE you there.

I look forward to exploring all the planets and many moons. It would be great to find life in outer space, any where!