At Physics Conference, Scientists Say They Are Closing In on 'God Particle'

Try looking into nature to see "god".

god = Nature
Nature = Physics
Physics = god

Hmm?

@aware_one

the answer to your Hmm? is an unequivocal NO

only 2 of the 3 terms in your equations are certifiably real. the other is embarrassingly absent EVERYWHERE.

and even if he did exist, he's about as useful as your overly friendly neighborhood hobo

Imagination is the key to Invention
I suppose if Horton heard a Who, they would take it to a
particle accelerator and smash it. The true God particle is flying at a speed unmeasurable by our standard of time, released into an electrical ether of innumerable universes of random order, spawned by a synaptical discharge in the mind of God.

We are all merely a thought in the mind of God

@poopshoop

alright, well see its your type of thinking that will show many people that you cant make an argument about a belief when its a spiritual belief, therefore physics (physical things) can not and should not be put into a debate, we cant say how exactly we believe in God, because its a non-physical thing(faith), and your thinking in physical context.

and honestly my god has guided me out of my foolishness. he is like a father, although harder to hear him, he has the best way to save me, and any one who puts their faith in him. obviously you have no faith, therefore god to you might be as important as a hobo.

@aware one

alright you really need to actually think of what your saying. you might hear something like that from your little mommy or daddy, but this is real life, yeah, physics does not equal up to god, god is far different then physics. GET IT RIGHT RETARD!

If we're really just a thought in God's mind, God has got one MESSED UP HEAD. I really wish he'd stop thinking about war, rape, murder, disease and famine.

And if God is nature and nature is physics and physics is God, then I'm gonna become a Wiccan. Though you've got me thinking about Nature=Physics... I've never came across a formula for corn, but I'm sure it's a-maiz-ing.

Get it? Maiz? Hey, don't blame me if you don't like the joke. God thought of that, not me.

alias007

you sir are the definition of some one who doesnt study any thing. listen, god gave us free will, its our choice what we do with our lives, not his choice. retard

Ha, ha, this is so amuzing! Come on people, this story has nothing to do with god. Yes, I understand, it said "God particle" but let's get scientific, it's just a phrase, it's like when you say "Holy grail".
This is not religious portal, it's scientific so don't come here to preach that god gave us free will. First you need to distinquish science from religion, but even if you learned to make difference between these two, you still can't say to people that they are retarded.

So, can anyone say something relevant about Higgs boson, I really would like to hear opinions. I can't say anything particular but anyway, I came here to learn some science and get more information about things so I really would like to see non-religious discussion. For those who want to preach I suggest to try visiting a church.

Let me just state the obvious. The god particle will be discovered by one of the labs on dec 21, 2012 and somehow destroy us all. About god, I keep hearing from religous people about how this and that is gods will or plan. We cannot possibly have any real free will if there is a plan. I know Im goin to hell and thats gods plan. I was destined to hell long before i was born. Thanks god. I will say gods plan must have gone horribly wrong a few times. For instance having to flood the world except for noah because everything wasnt going as planned.

I don't think God and physics are separable. God is the ultimate physicist, He laid the building blocks for everything in the universe, told light to shine, particles to have mass and gravity. The evidence of God is all around us: in the trees, animals, earth, galaxy and universe. I can't imagine anything as profound and complex the universe we live in being created any other way.

@norman_iz_sharper

"you sir are the definition of some one who doesnt study any thing. listen, god gave us free will, its our choice what we do with our lives, not his choice. retard"

Well, for one, I study English. It's 'someone', not 'some one'; 'doesn't', not 'doesnt'; 'anything', not 'any thing', 'it's', not 'its'. Also, retard is not a sentence.

I also study Ethics. That's why I don't call people 'retard'. And for people who are on the fence with religion that are reading this and know someone with a mental disability, they'll probably be offended by your terminology.

I also study religion. Most religions encourage its ('its' is not abbreviated in this case because it's in the possessive form) followers to spread the religion to non-believers. And by resorting to name-calling, you've gone against your religion. Unless you're in the minority of religions where spreading the word is not morally obligatory. I'm obviously not a believer. Do you want to witness to me or call me names?

And it's funny that you brought up the topic of studying because you've completely left out any rebuttal for my point of view. If you want to sound smart, don't call people names that offend more than the intended target. Use logic and proofs. You see, about 3 years ago I came to the conclusion that God doesn't exist. Because I find it difficult to give praise to a God where this world is the best that he can do. When bad things happen, people usually say that it's part of God's plan and it doesn't make sense to us. For most of my life, I accepted that. But I can't anymore. I can't worship a God that allows the types of suffering that this world has even without human intervention. Babies have been eaten alive by wolves. What plan was there in that? And despite it all, I would love nothing more than to believe in God again. To be able to feel better that I can pray when things get bad.

I've talked long enough here, but you get the point. You tried to be a religious intellectual. You came across completely wrong.

So, Gordon is right. The comments section has been polluted and I'm partly to blame for that. I apologize. I'll attempt to make amends by posting a relevant comment.

--------------------------

Article states: "Before the LHC finds the Higgs, it must first re-discover particles previously found at the Tevatron and other accelerators."

I know that if one lab makes some discovery it has to be tested in other labs. Why does the LHC have to find the all the same particles that the Tevatron et al have found first? Why not a select set? And how many particles have been discovered so far by particle accelerators? Are there many?

@alias007

"You see, about 3 years ago I came to the conclusion that God doesn't exist. Because I find it difficult to give praise to a God where this world is the best that he can do. When bad things happen, people usually say that it's part of God's plan and it doesn't make sense to us."
- Alias007

The question of "God's Plan" has been long debated in Christian circles. Some doctrines say that God has predetermined a person's entire life, and others say that "God's Plan" is merely the end goal of Heaven, or life without sin. However, I believe the Bible implies that God wants us to be close to him, but because of the rampant sin on this world, he cannot. When Satan first deceived Eve, and Eve committed the first sin, God was forever trying to recover what he lost. He first implemented the 600 some laws of the Old Testament, then sent his son to die for our sins so that we could eventually return to him for eternity.

When bad things happen, they are definitely not a part of God's plan. But he does incorporate them into his plan for the future. Does a quarterback plan on the defensive linemen chasing him out of the pocket? Of course not. He calls an audible, looks for an open pass or runs for the line. When people do things that result in terrible accidents, poverty, and death, God uses those things to bring his vision of Heaven closer to fruition. While he could stop those things from happening, he knows that this would not bring about the end result he desired. What happens to a child that gets every little thing he wants? They become spoiled. Its human nature. To God, it would be like winning a talent show that he hosted and was the only contestant. Love by choice is much more potent than love by prescription. Many times during Israel's history God has led them through troubles to conquer nations. Every time, they turned from him, claiming that they accomplished their feats by their own power. When it seems a miracle that we get by, we see much more that what we do have is through God's Power.

This was a quite abbreviated synopsis of the many reasons for suffering in the world from a Christian point of view. Realizing this won't necessarily make it easier, but turning to him in your times of need as well as your times of plenty will. If you really want to believe in a God, search for him with all your heart, and you will find him.
----------------
and for my related post, i have one question.

What would be the practical application of the discovery of this particle?

@norman_iz_sharper

you are the definition of someone who gives Christianity a bad name. Why the retard comment? If you were marketing a restaurant would your slogan be "Come Eat Here. Retard."? No.

The booson higgs is the verification of the standard model. We have already found ranges that the particle cannot exist. Does this mean at some point we could conclusivly say "This particle cannot exist". I mean if we find it voilla the standard model is upheld. But what happens if we pretty much go through all possible ranges and determine that no particle exists in those ranges? I for one am betting against the standard model it is just too ugly of a theory to suffeciently explain things.

@Benaiah2320- Beyond the pure science of discovery I can tell you this, the discovery(or disproval) of the boson higgs would give us a better fundamental understanding of the makeup of matter. Technological progress always follows physics. You may make a prettier phone that does twice as much poop as last years model but you will never truely make large technological gains until you improve your fundamental knowlege. It would take engineers a couple of decades to make use of the knowlege but what they do would be an order of magniture more than the group who did not have the information.

@Benaiah2320 "What would be the practical application of the discovery of this particle?"

I think everyone is excited for different reasons. Some hope to find a theory of everything. Personally, I just look forward to further enlightenment. But the child in me hopes that if finding the Higgs boson means we might know what gives atoms it's mass, that maybe we'd be able to manipulate matter at that level like we learned to do with molecules and then atoms. How awesome would it be to manipulate the mass of an object before sending it into space, then manipulating the mass again once you're in a good position for entering orbit. Not that anything like that would ever happen, but I love to daydream. ;-)

P.S., I haven't read your entire comment yet, but I promise to.

poopshoop is partly right... aware_one's 2nd statement is the only one which could be said to be true. The first and third statements are actually conflicting - they reflect two different (and usually opposing) belief sets. They were combined in that set of statements simply to produce the illusion of a circular logic.

@Norman -- A wise man once said: "I wonder if man's job on earth is not to praise god. But to create him." It goes without saying that there very well could be a first-cause creator we would call "god". It also goes without saying that there is absolutely *zero* evidence for such a being. The fact remains however that the more and more we learn about life and the universe, the less and less we need your god to make sense of it. You can believe in said being all you want good sir, just don't pile all your violent, man-made superstitions created in an attempt to glorify his name (and then include me in your calculations.) Your more than welcome to these beliefs my friend. But I certainly can't envy you for them.

everyone listen to Gordon Freemen; and stop whining about if god exists or not; nothing to do with the Higgs, besides the name. shut up no one cares......besides Thor is the one true god anyway

I don't know if this is an answer to my own question or not, but I saw on Fermilab's site that there are "6 [quarks] predicted to exist". So, they'll have to discover the bottom quark and 4 other quarks. Still not sure why they have to find the quarks before the Higgs boson if we've already found them elsewhere though.

Imagination is the key to Invention
*heavysigh, The aforementioned theory of the elusive Higgs boson is said to "endow" particles with mass which offers a potential scientific path towards what defines fundamental Creation.
This word: Creation, obviously draws a parallel in religious text, hence, the term- The God Particle.
I find the above perspectives fascinating to a degree, however, the reality of the experiments is all theory. And
even if a thin, fat, or singing, boson is detected, we will be only 1 step out of .. blank .. in understanding how to manipulate mass. *rubbingforehead, this level of knowledge is beyond our capacity, which brings us yet again, full circle, to our original explanation of Creation, which we don't understand either. The boys at the colliders press on, God Bless them, they are trying too, but somehow, I don't think will ever verify the blueprint for what draws, collects, creates, or assembles .. mass. They have a better chance at snatching Thors hammer than they do learning that design.
; )

Dear GOD! You guys are annoying. "God Particle" is a pun. Have you ever heard of one? Your senses of humour are about as big as the signifigance of this argument.

@ a couple of people
my user name is not norman_iz_sharper it has no r in it.
its also true i should have avoided the name calling as its true that calling people retards is infact giving Christians a bad name. i apologize for that,
@alias007
you cant just say that because of a grammar, name calling, and a couple witnessing problums causes me to be wrong on everything, which you said " I've talked long enough here, but you get the point. You tried to be a religious intellectual. You came across completely wrong." while in fact many of the things i said are very true. god gave us free will (true) we use that free will to commit any of the ten sins, at will, because of free will. -freedom to do as we will- (true) if god had his plan to be perfectly followed, no one would not be saved by Christ, no one would commit sin, we would all be perfect, just as Adam and Eve were before their free will was to commit a sin. while the devil tempted them, and their free will and perfect human nature was corrupted. now please, take time, listen to this, take the time to understand what im saying, and if you still disagree, then please, tell me why?

@benaiah2320
you have a better way of explaining what i meant, im not exactly the best writter, (writing requires grammar, in which im not to fimiliar with. spelling is also a downfall as i can see many red lines under my text)
im also not a very ethical guy, as i called alias007 a retard, lol thats a very good way to point out free will,

its also true that the god particle wasnt meant to be a debate on if god was real or not. lol in fact that popsci should not post these types of things lol. the instant we start talking about religion, any religion infact, it will normally get to the point on if god is real or not. and thats just sad. but i dont feel to bad taking part of this debate so.... oh well lol.

I can say that I know some things about science and I use a "scientific" way of thinking when learning new things, but I know almost nothing about quantum mechanic, nano technology and let's say the string theory.
Does Higgs Boson has anything to do with the theory of everything? The way I see it, people think that this will be a breakthrough in science. In my lack of knowledge I can't relly see how it will change things. To me it's like knowing about Big Bang, but since it is a very valuable knowledge I don't see much practical use of knowing about Big Bang. Will it be similar with Higgs Boson? I hope you will be patient to explain things to not laughing.

@norman_iz_sharpe,

your name gets cut off so we see 'norman_iz_sharp' and then half of an 'e'. i'm using firefox, i don't know if that's why. i want to reply to your comments of 'free will', but i feel i've tainted the comments section enough as it is. i'll simply say, thanks for your explanation. :-)

@Gordon,

The reason I think that finding the Higgs might be important for the theory of everything is because the Grand Unified Theory is up there with gravity for understanding the Theory of Everything. Whoever wrote this wiki article did a much better job explaining it than I ever could, so here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_everything

Scroll down to the section that says 'New discoveries' and the first couple of paragraphs along with the theory tree illustration are pertinent to why I think it matters.

In short though, understanding the Higgs boson could mean proof of a GUT. According to the illustration there, a GUT coupled with an understanding of gravity are both prerequisites for finding the Theory of Everything. To change the terminology around a bit TOE, as I understand it, would be a theory that brings together Physics (Gravity) and Quantum Physics (GUT).

I'm counting the seconds until someone corrects me, because I'm sure I've got some things wrong there. But this is my understanding of it all anyway. ;-)

@chad_iz_rad "Your more than welcome to these beliefs my friend. But I certainly can't envy you for them."

well im not trying to share the Gospel to you guys, you guys can believe what you want, but when it comes to be false facts you cant spread that around, especially when you say "The fact remains however that the more and more we learn about life and the universe, the less and less we need your god to make sense of it." while that is a physical statement talking about the worldly view, you have no facts. which you need facts for a human statement. now your 100% correct, we have no proof that our god really exists, but that's because he told us to have faith, now, i know its not easy for a lot of people to just believe in a thing without proof, but the least i could say is, its better then nothing ;) (but thats the least i could say)

i would also like to say again, but yet most of you forgot that i even said it because i did not hurt any ones little feelings.

you cant make an argument about a belief when its a spiritual belief, therefore physics (physical things) can not and should not be put into a debate, we cant say how exactly we believe in God, because its a non-physical thing(faith), and your thinking in physical context.

@Alias007
I see what you mean by the discovery of the particle won't lead to a practical invention. When Ben Franklin discovered lightning, he didn't instantly come up with computers. Now that i see it this way, i can understand the hype behind the discovery of this particle. I am no theoretical physicist, so i cannot fathom a possible application. But the possibilities are endless. Ever since watching the Back to the future series I've wanted the microwave looking thing that turned the little pizza into a big one, only because i want to see what happens when you put a regular size pizza in it. Maybe this will make my dream possible.

I meant to say that the discovery wont lead instantly to a practical invention. Oopsies. I was distracted by my visions of elephant sized pizzas.

lol

Thank you alias007 for your brief explanation and the link. Thanks alo go to Benaiah2320 for his view.

@Alias007 "I don't know if this is an answer to my own question or not, but I saw on Fermilab's site that there are "6 [quarks] predicted to exist". So, they'll have to discover the bottom quark and 4 other quarks. Still not sure why they have to find the quarks before the Higgs boson if we've already found them elsewhere though."

The reason they want to "find" the quark is not just to show that it exists (was shown in 1995) - it's to show that they are able to properly reconstruct the particle from its decay products as a stepping stone to reconstructing the (possibly) more complicated higgs decay.

The article notes why the top quark is of particular note; the article is misleading in its phrasing though - it is not a necessary step in finding the higgs to "rediscover" any particles along the way. The point is that it will take a few years (at least) of running to amass the statistics to conclusively say the higgs boson was discovered; if the reconstruction of the higgs works like a top quark + anti-top quark, then showing that they can manage the top quark on its own is a good step toward showing they'll be ready when the statistics arrive.

The other quarks have lots of interesting physics related to them as well, so they'll certainly be used and looked at in detail. But for this purpose they're not as important.

The Higgs particle is a consequence of the Higgs mechanism Lagrangian to endow mass to a linearization of the wave equation making up another sector of the field theory Lagrangian (like Maxwell’s equations are a linearization of the wave equation). This is employed because a linearization of the Klein-Gordon equations besides the Dirac equation is not recognized. However, such a linearization, does, in fact, exist; so the Higgs mechanism is unnecessary. Further, the Standard Model particle architecture arises simply based merely on three mass constant quads. And, all the particle interactions similarly, simply arise. See: “Reality is a Mathematical Model”, and “A Mathematical Preon Foundation for the Standard Model”, available on Kindle and Nook. www.amazon.com/dp/B004IZLHI2

YOU ALL ARE THE GAYEST PEOPLE i HAVE EVER SEEN!!! YOUR ARGUING OVER A STUPID MACHINE THAT IS CALLED "GOD PARTICLE." YET THIS DUMB MACHINE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD!! IF YOU PEOPLE SERIOUSLY CAN'T FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR TIME THEN TO ARGUE ABOUT THIS DUMB MACHINE THEN I FEEL REALLY BAD FOR ALL OF YOU!!!
GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!

-

The Sixth Sense - New GROUNDBREAKING Book in 2012! The Sixth Sense leads to Enlightenment
DNA Healing Code - Hardwired in ALL Humans

As an example of what I mean by “Groundbreaking” info that can be found in the 2012 release of my new book on The Sixth Sense (not yet titled )…..
There is a sequence required to communicate with Infinite Intelligence – to gain insight and/or much more complicated yet achievable, HolisticDNA Energy Healing. The sequence required is on multiple simultaneous levels, not just “step by step” like an instruction manual for assembling a piece of furniture.
The “Key” sequence has to do with applying known facts, beliefs, emotions and faith (not religious) – if not applied exactly as detailed, the Sixth Sense will remain dormant, and not be “activated”. As an example:

fact --
fact --
fact --
belief --
fact --
in theory --
belief --
fact --
belief --
Faith --
fact --
fact --
fact --
Faith

you won’t find this in any existing text, which is why The Sixth Sense is so rarely utilized and hard to confirm. This will allow the Scientific Community to experiment and confirm my claims — remember, just a few decades ago, it was impossible to have a Man walk on the moon. Time for the next impossible to be challenged and confirmed — real

Steve Meyer HolisticDNA