The First Few Minutes After Death

I am very excited to see the results of this study. It is about time that science is taking a look at phenomina outside of the physical relm. For the naturalist, there is nothing but the physical matter, which can explain everything. But, I think that this experiment will show that there is more then the physical material, and that humans have consciousness outside of the body. This will definitly be the case if the patients are able to recall the images on the shelves. This will put a big question mark toward evolution and naturalism as far as how this can be. I suggest that the study will prove what many already know to be true; that there is a non-physical reality as well as a physical one. Further, that humans, as a "soul" or "consciousness" continue to exist post death of the body. Great to see this type of study being undertaken.

For those intrigued by "...the science of these "consciousness events" may be somewhat similar to the relation between Newtonian physics and quantum physics."

You might want to check out the DVD/movie; "What the Bleep
Do We Know Anyway" Many video rental stores will have one,
or two, copies on the shelf.

I, for one, really cannot wrap my head around most all of what the quantum physicists are talking about; but it's fascinating stuff nevertheless.

This is a very neat topic and I think something that everyone questions. I will definitely be following up to see if they made any discoveries.

Raoul @ FireText
http://www.firetext.tv

Mabey if we find out new things about the brain we might be able to use the information to cure some types of sicknesses?

idk?

This is so cool!

-THE KID

If they find something there, it is likley a type of energy/particle that is able to maintain coherency outside of the bounds of the brain container. In anycase, I'm excited, it would be great to put the conciousness question to the test. Maybe we can figure out how to control it, or transplant it, then we would be able to move the conciousness of the dead into some sort of artificial body.

What im curious about is if in the case that we are able to have an "out of body experience" then that would imply a compleatly seperate conciousness as well as a seperate "body of energy". Its always been an urban legend that a mother can sense when her child is in severe danger or upon death, but this would bring up a whole new set of ideals pertaining particularly on the metaphysical. I personally practice buddhism and i do believe that everything and everyone is connected due to a shared type of energy, this study would in fact put ground under my belief's and think of the possibilities of being maintained in such a state? Horribly interesting article and i would greatly love to hear more about it in the future.

~Taio~

As an atheist I find this very interesting. I may have to start believing in something soon.

As an atheist I also find this extremely interesting. Even if photos are remembered from on the shelves, it doesn't make it proof to me that I was "designed" and "created" by a god. I'll find our natural world to be even more fascinating and beautiful if this were to be shown, but it's still all just as natural to me as reproduction. I think the human species looks for reasons all to often (like inventing gods) than just accepting every quark about life as we learn them. We don't know all that much after all, and all sides like to claim they "know" already, including atheists. Which is why I think everyone will look forward to results from this study.

Personally i prctice buddhism, mind you and make a note of it that i am not a buddhist for that would cause me to have one singular belief in which all others are disproven, I practice the ways and teachings of buddah and i would greatly like to consider the ideal of a metaphysical "being" or what some would consider a "afterlife". Regardless of the obvious it would place a basis on a various religions and therefore and once again the bottom line is there right and im wrong or im right and there all wrong.... see how this all starts over....
People fear what they do not understand and to someone like moses a burning bush that talked to him might be a sign from god and then again maby he ate the wrong desert berries (peote *as an example). One way or another people as a whole will find some odd warped way of converting the results of this study as diffinitive evidence that they are right and YOU ARE WRONG! Me personally im just goingto sit here and enjoy the smell of the grass and the fresh mountain air :)
Long Days and Pleasant Nights
~Taio~

You can have this "out of body experience" on mushrooms if you try hard enough :) I know I've done it!

Years ago, I think it was in Sweden, experiments were conducted on people just after they died: the thrust was to explore whether or not people had a 'soul' that left the body following physiological cessation.
Each patient's hospital bed was mounted on very delicate scales (isolated from exterior vibration) and sealed with a plastic barrier to prevent moisture from escaping the body and effecting the scales just following death.
All of the patients showed a loss of a set amount--some fractions of a gram--of weight which did not deviate one from the other among them in any degree within seconds following their deaths.

It would only make sense that during the process of the bodys failure; the mind is trying to save itself and all the information it retains, and mabye in a last effort it expels this information attaching it to any existing amplitude in the immediate environment; a radio wave or cell phone frequency. The conciousness of a being would become a fourth perspective containing within a bio electric field emitted by all lifeforms, a spherical space of "Nothing" Between the brain and the edges of this sphere, kind of like an atom. Your now seeing the animation of reality as standstill, all moving so slow and perspectivly everything glitches away into another "dimension". Almost like your seeing in a different spectrum of light that holds another mass of matter. If the persons life is saved, this ghastly appearing life-force magnetically Like pulls back, and you are suddenly again behind your eyes. You feel apart of you, is missing.

As for Life After Dead, This would only logically make sense through Reproduction. All the information you learn in your life is recorded to your DNA and your genetics are updated constantly. Whether its a more efficient way of approaching a task, to experiencing emotions its going to go to your genetics. This information updated and ready to go, in males the sperm (which generates constantly) , and females the egg (ovulation). These genetics create the greater entity better know as your child, and which is technically You, and Your Spouse, AND Your Ancestors. After you Die, i believe you will be born, as your own child, with no acknowledgement of it. Even multiple You's. But this is no longer you, its a unique being with its own experience to make there own person to continue the loop. Now, being born again retaining information you gained up till the point of sex, alot of what you learned in your previous generation will come easier learning to you, if not common sense, and if not that, instincts. Just do it perfect the first time whether common or not. You Will Always Live and Experience and Learn, One Generation at a Time.

-You fall somewhere in the Balanced Frequency of Nature. Someone Along the Infinite Spectrum of Life.

Also Recalling such a thing would be like recalling that wierd messed up dream you had right after you experienced it that felt so real, Then its no longer important, untill you actually take part in the experience at a random time later in life. Seriously, its all About The Waves.

I have seen photographs in other magazines before that showed Kirlan photography. The advanced photography was started in Russia some years ago. Anyway, if you cut a leaf in 1/2, if you look at the Kirlan photography, the missing half still "shows," in a brilliant ghostly image for many hours or days. Photos of human fingers shows energy glowing around them in reds and blues, much like when touching an electrified static globe.

I suppose if living things have an aura such as this...and the tissue is removed or dies, the aura remains. If the aura were located where the human head is, for instance, I imagine some of that energy being shown may hold the inter dimensional components of the mind. And once the aura of a human mind is free of the flesh, perhaps it is also free of space/time, and can witness events in the near future or past. According to gurus, this aura can also be trained to leave a living body for out of body travel, without death. Who are we to know if this aura can interpret sounds or light, and if it can absorb surrounding energy, it can continue on? If true, the body is merely a temple, and these auras can be transferred in some more advanced future, into artificial bodies. Just a thought.

I suspect that a successful study if published in a recognized scientific journal could change some of the norms within the N.H.S. and allow anecdotal evidence from nurses witnessing the 'life to the next stage of life' transition with their psychic senses, to be more freely shared.

One thing that is easily checkable is the loss of bodyweight of approx 4 ounces /125 grams at the point of death: a 'litmus test' well suited to laboratory standards would be a huge missed opportunity if not included.

I have had a first hand account of weight loss (also referred to separately, anecdotally) from a forensic pathologist who used to work at Hendon Police College: Geoff Fried.

I can only urge that this weight check is done and is verified in time by separate studies so that the boundaries of science can be officially pushed back a fraction more.

It remains to be seen if the current scientific study can create a new facet which has its own scientific validity. I hope that valid scientific findings can be produced.

The chance of publication in a scientific journal of a successful study is however slim as the peer review process is designed to kill any new science which is not an incremental step from existing textbook science but best of luck anyway!

I believe as a member of a scientific forum with a fair number of skeptics and nothing wrong with that by the way, that the main stumbling block to progress is the reluctance within orthodox science to acknowledge our higher sensory potential.

Perhaps the Buddhist meditator who commented earlier could make room for me on his mountainside while I serenely watch the developments.

I know from my own personal experience of interacting with those who have already made their transitions and also though the 'linking' or 'channeling' process that forms a bridge for the transmission of healing energies in 'spiritual healing', which is a recognized therapy grouping, regulated in the UK through 'UK Healers' that we do indeed live in a rich 'multiverse'.

Perhaps the Divine Plan is that we each have to make the effort ourselves though our own spiritual development to experience it first hand!

here is a thought on the mind that delves into quantum mechanics and religion. Information can never be destroyed. Just rearranged. As time approaches infinity it is possible that the information that made up a person’s mind may be arranged to completely simulate a persons mind to the smallest detail. Even if that "re-incarnation" where to die with enough given time it could happen again. Its possible eventually it will happen in such an way that it would be possible to "think" forever and never die(I wanted to say live) Maby that is the heaven that religion is talking about and the eternal soul is the information that makes you "you" This could theoretically span through multiple universes as long as the information that makes a person them were simulated exactly. So it would not matter if our universe one day dies. We could still be resurrected in another universe. When we die since our mind is no longer thinking it would seem instant to us. But in fact an infinite amount of time as passed in between "re-incarnations"

lensman51

Just a small clarification for Michael Taylor's comment:

Our main existence as species spirit, as related by people on that side of life, takes place in a timeless environment which is event driven: part of us belongs to that timeless environment now but is linked to our human side which is tied to the material world with the predictable sensory experience of a timeline.

If you are interested in learning more there are books dictated from the higher side using people on this side of life to jot them down and I can recommend 'The Universe of Silver Birch' to fill in some of the spiritual side in a question and answer format that tends to say how things are clearly and concisely but is descriptive in character rather than technical.

On the physics side I note that Julian Barbour in 'The End of Time', derives all the equations of Newtonian physics and Einsteinian space-time and Quantum Mechanics from first principles by starting from a timeless environment.

He is quite good at presenting concepts and leading the reader through the simplified environment of Triangle Land to end up in the timeless universe of 'Platonia'.

By page 326 he considers if there is a role for a creator as his mathematical treatment presupposes structure that would have to have come from somewhere and on page 327 he ironically considers where Heaven might be!

I suspect this is a much more profound unification than he realizes as the deeper experiential reality of our multiverse did not figure in his treatment which was limited simply to unifying the physics of the macro-world with the markedly different physics of the micro-world.

Interesting study but the method of putting a picture on top of a really high shelf has too many problems. First it can only be seen from the ceiling. What if the person doesn't pin itself to the ceiling and then look side to side for pictures on shelving because the soul is too concerned with its physical death and has more important things to pay attention to?

Why don't they draw a shape or put a sticker on the persons forehead since it would require a mirror to decipher the image. If the person can repeat later what was on their forehead then it would point toward an out of body experience. Afterall I would assume the out of body soul would be looking back down at its physical body and would easily be able to give an answer. The same cannot be said for some arbitrary picture on a dusty shelf.

OK, news flash!!! There is a being the "master scientist" who created the noodle inside our heads... The noodle in which we all so marvel... This noodle also has our entire life's data, from birth to present stored in it, called our "soul." And (DNA) the astounding living "Micro-Chip." The thought of humanity being subject to a creator seems to sour the bellies of many...Sickening as it may be, it's true!
Why is the notion of our human flesh, as a harboring house, for an everlasting spirit, so difficult to digest? Isn't it amazing, God said he created us from the dust of the earth and scientific evidence supports this... The exact elements that are found in earthen soil, are the very elements that make up the human body! He also said that he breathed "life"(Spirit) into us giving us the wonderful ability to think and reason; and the gift of free will, unlike any other created being. Why then must we, doctors, scientists and well learned intellects continually muster-up other possibilities to the Near Death Phenomenon? Is it really that hard to fathom, that at the point of fleshly extinction and cardiac arrest, the spirit which is the "true you" simply slips into the next dimension? The God realm, where we are no longer bound by space and time...Knowledge is increased and existence, in every aspect of the word, is ultimately superior. Just take a moment to examine the testimonies of the NDE'r. Most have similar and enlightening experiences... Many have increased awareness...Amazingly, the majority talk of going to one of two places. A horrible realm of darkness, full of fear and eternal torment; Or an indescribable place of beauty, joy, peace, love and light, where they are often reunited with loved one who have preceded them in death. You see folks, "LIFE" is a gift. Please don't, through your self proclaimed intellectual superiority and vein philosophy, rule out the possibility that there is a Great and powerful God who LOVES you, and wants to know you. Ask Him to reveal himself, and he will. Why then, you might ask, is life so difficult? We're not done yet! This is probationary... If we have never tasted sorrow how then may we truly appreciate Joy? Remember, never separate science from the "Master Scientist"!

I know I already posted a comment above...However I would like to clarify that I am not basing my opinion on mere emotionalism, but rather 16 years of personal research and evaluation. It all started back in March, of 1992. A starving college student working in a grociery store check out. I happened to noticed an issue of Life Magazine on the shelf...It was the cover that got my attention. I saw a little girl, in a white dress, about 5-or-6 years of age, walking up a stair case flooded with light...And the header was: LIFE AFTER DEATH THE GREATEST MYSTERY. My curiosity was instantly sparked. After that, It became not only a desire, but a complete and total obsessive quest for the Truth! I read everything I could get my hands on pertaining to this subject. Upon examining several thousands of fasinating personal testimonies, adults and children alike; from the point of physical death to entering into a much more advanced way of life...I am resolved in concluding that there is a spirit realm that can only be discovered in SPIRIT. Therefor, resulting in confounding even the most intellectual scientific minds. Here are some references to the medical researchers and discoveries of this Topic:
1)Dr. Jeff Long M.D.> of IANDS (Near Death Studies)
2)Dr. Melvin Morse M.D.> Seattle Childrens Hospital
3)Dr. Richard Kent M.D.> Gen. Practice U.K.
4)Dr. Tony Lawrence M.D.> Coventry University U.K.
5)Dr. Maurice Rawlings M.D. Cardiologist.
And many more.
Amazing Personal accounts, view on You tube:
Ian McCormack, died from a Box Jellyfish
Howard Storm, Died from a perforated abdomen
Micky Robinson, Died from a plane crash
Just to name a few.

You know, there is already a well known method for experiencing impossible things, it's called hallucination.

Which of these is more likely?
-- Your thinkin' parts magically detach from your brain as you die.
-- The trauma of oxygen loss induces hallucinations.

Here's a hint: you can experience all kinds of fun things through oxygen deprivation (give it a try, I'll wait).

There is no "soul", no "aura", no "brain waves latching onto passing microwave radiation" (hehe, I like that one). It's just a bunch of mushy neurons that depend on blood flow to do their jobs properly.

Voice of Reason...

Born a catholic, I was. Graced with faith from birth.
Then, one day I thought...What if? What if it is all a big lie, just like Santa Claus! And with that thought, it was gone...grace of faith vanished.
That I may simply be random and end with black nothingness must now be considered.

I cried, I screamed. I lamented, I begged for this not to be so. But still doubt lingered; and grew.
Like a lover who once cheats, life becomes laced with betrayal. Like a two dimensional cartoon.

No soul you say!

I believe we are here to decide...no matter who...one day we must all decide.

Without prejudice let us explore within..

1.the origin of everything which is perceptible ( thru naked eyes or hitech ) MIGHT be in an 'idea'.. it is easy to bellieve this in normal experience but the moment you stretch this to universe, it becomes susceptible to hijack by so called rational empiricists or religious protagonists.As a scientific pursuit of this , we are at a very rudimentary level...

Does this mean skepticism ? Science is exploration , reaserach and also transcendance ... but going beyond mind ? we are still at infantile stage.Physics,Biology and Psychology...the domain of knowledge is beyond this ans includes more than what can be measured in normal space-time concepts.