I think the market is crazy because a school or two has started a class that uses PPX. It has happened before.

That could be true. Its crazy because the other day, I can't remember which stock it was... I had made all kinds of money on it, but then it turned around and went the complete opposite way and I ended up losing thousands upon thousands. Doesnt really make sense...

Yeah, I've zeroed out all the volatile stocks for now. While there is a chance to make money from this, I don't have the time to sit here refreshing over and over again to catch the wave when it turns. So I would rather just keep the money I have and not risk losing a lot. I'm about 65,000 ahead of the guy below me, and 30,000 below the guy above me, so my rank isn't going to move anyway.

yeah school kids have plated havoc a couple times. They tend not to do a lot of research and go with names they like or actively wave ride together causing big turn arounds. Eventually they get bored or their class moves on to other things.

I dont think that is the case here. Stocks have been up 5-10 points and then gone in the complete opposite direction to down 5-10 points. I think someone is screwing with the market.

However.... Ive yet to see it happen today, so maybe that post had something to do with it.

and i doubt kids are at school between 12 and 7 at night...

No, but they could go home and do it there.

poor strategy by experienced players accounts for alot of it in my mind.

For example:
A prop is a clear short and you have it short, it's gone down quite a ways... now you decide to take your profits from the prop (something you can do with a short because you get your original cash back plus the profits and can get back into the prop and keep the profits in cash). There are 3 ways to take those profits...

1) cover the short and stay out of the prop. This gets you the profits, but counts as 1 knotch toward turning the stock up.

2) cover the short and buy the prop long. This gets you the profits, but counts as 2 knotches toward turning the stock up.

3) cover the short and buy the prop short again. This gets you the profits, but the cover and short cancel each other out, so it counts as 0 knotches toward turning the stock up.

I think alot of turns happen because people have done the math and figured out they could get the cash so they can buy into more props, but haven't thought out a strategy that would not cause the stock to turn up. Initial thoughts to alot of people are "well, I covered it, so I should buy it the other way now", they don't think about getting back in short.

Doing this IS NOT market manipulation, because it is the market itself which has created the opportunity to take the profits when there is a long drop, and therefore market forces have created a point where many will take their profits. How they do it... well, hopefully this has made some folks think...

ejcassel

ejcassel, actually although I agree that in normal circumstances covering a short to get the profit and shorting the same stock is a great strategy, as long as you make more than your commission charges. However historically and I don't know if they ever fixed it, covering and shorting again do not cancel each other out, they are weighted differently as are Buy and sell. from what we figured out buying / shorting are weighted the same and selling/ covering are weighted the same but are less weighted than buy/short. Which means that by shorting/ covering shorting the same stock you are able to strengthen a downward trend. You can strengthen an upward trend by buying /selling / buying but all you would really gain here is financial loss. So in reality a short /cover/ short although legal and a decent strategy can be used to manipulate the market.

And we have seen this type of market several times when school kids start playing en mass for a class. The primary problem with a great influx of players from a single school is that 1) they often have a different agenda than the normal players here, also many of them know they will only play as long as it is required. However the biggest issue is that given they are all centrally located they are much more likely to coordinate their activities, either to intentionally or unintentionally drive the market. For example they may discuss a particular stock in class and come to a group concession as to whether it is a buy or a short, and then later you suddenly have 20-25 people buying that stock. If they realize or are taught that the best way to increase net worth is wave riding you suddenly have a bunch of people riding waves, which throws off the market.

Eric99 reported a glitch in the tech forms that may be related to the wild market swings.

m_novotny, are you a teacher at Longfellow MS in Tosa?

No, I am not. I'm a teacher at PPXU in LA.

davidhartley-

I had not done enough research to learn that they might be weighted differently, that's good info, thanks.

I does not change those strategies and what they do, just that some moves have more effect than others. Additionally, most turns happen just after midnight eastern time when the leaderboard has updated. If the primary impetus was school class usage, I don't think midnight would be when we'd see those turns.

I agree that it may be why waveriding swings are taking props so far in each direction, even when the direction doesn't make sense, but I have difficulty with that explanation generating the turns.

Whatever the reason, it isn't necessarily automated market manipulation. We need to be careful with accusations. That was the point of my original post.

ejcassel

ejcassel, Midnight EST is 8:00 Pacific Time so it really depends on where the school is as to what times are relevant for an impact.

it's actually 9pm pacific time or 7pm hawaii time.

pso7025 your correct, looked at the wrong thing, but the point is the same. Just because its midnight in one place does not mean that it is midnight for everyone. We have had a few Kiwi's playing as well as some Britts, and those are just ones we know of here in the forums. So it is an error to assume that because it is after midnight in one location that that precludes a group of kids from being active.

i totally agree...it's nice being on the west coast because i only have to wait until 9 something to find out if i moved up or down in the standings.

Just for the record... by 3:30 (central time) friday I had lost around 10k, but i didn't feel like helping the cheaters, so I didn't flip ANYTHING. I can't access my port at home, so it will be interesting to see how much I've lost tommorow morning at school...

it goes back and forth...at one point in the day, i'm down a lot then later i'm back up and then the cycle repeats (constantly)

It's not too bad, only 20k this morning.

It IS manipulation... as of 13:30 zulu today, of the top ten movers, only 1 of them moved up. All the other ones went down. Weird.

I guess I'm glad that I don't care about market swings.

Here's the thing - you don't 'lose' anything when the market switches as long as you have the right position when it pays out.

Now, clearly if you rode the waves, you would maximize your profits, but I don't consider myself losing money when one of my shorts goes up $10/share like the iPhone just did. I know it will go back down and that it will pay short, so I've got the right position.

I think folks just need to ignore the swings, unless you are that die-hard that you need to take advantage over every little $ change.

Well Said....

People just need to play the prop.....

This isnt real money, though some people sure play like it is.....

Loving the enthusiasm, but you dont need to wave ride every single little stock...

that is true...

I don't, really...

What's with you and periods...

I dont know i just have heavy fingers that are attached to the period button........................................................................................................................................OOPS!!!!!!!!..

Wow... that went into the ad. I gotta try:
hi people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isnt that coool.................................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this just confirms that you two are indeed teenagers

That's called... umm..............................................................................................................................................................

I forget, but it has a name. Something about breaking out of the borders?

It is called thinking outside the box..

Literally and figuratively....LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........................................................................................................................................

I'm going to see if I can get it all the way over to the outer edge.

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Wow, it worked, but wordwrap didn't kick in. Something (else) is broken.

I think it's related to the jCarousel error.

jCarousel error: There is no height/width set for objects. This will cause an infinite loop. Aborting...

I'm aborting this thread

Abort! Abort! Repeat, we must ab- *Static*

*Dial tone*

I just killed my own thread due to the fact that I am, indeed, a teenager. But way to go, Novey. And you're right, it probably is related to the funky merry-go-round error.

I just killed my own thread due to the fact that I am, indeed, a teenager. But way to go, Novey. And you're right, it probably is related to the funky merry-go-round error.