Apple's New Mac OS, "Mountain Lion," Is a Head-On Collision of Mac OS and iOS

crapple

@Delkomatic
Wow. How profound and mature. Apple has, by far, the best quality materials in their products, the best ethics, and the biggest innovations of any electronics company in existence today.

I can't wait for the new OS. Apple always impresses with each new iteration.

@critical_mach

crapple

@critical_mach:

Mac OS is a dumbed-down UNIX distribution, nothing special here.

Mac hardware is standard, if not second-rate hardware used by ALL other computer manufacturers. The unibody design is only a ploy to force you to pay them for repairs. They overcharge for basic parts like RAM, hard drives, and peripherals, and tack pointless buzzwords onto their products (ie. "superdrive" is a standard optical drive).

Broseph,
I find your description of Mac OS and Mac hardware a very good description.

..........................................
See life in all its beautiful colors, and
from different perspectives too!

Lol! The trolls are out in force today! Not very bright ones for the most part. @Broseph You can call it dumbed down, or improved. Depends on your perspective. Most people value simplicity, especially when they are performing tasks that are on a time frame. I am willing to pay more for Apple, because I like their ethics, the way they treat their employees and their knack for innovation (iPod, iPhone, iOS, iTunes, Gestures, Oh, and the personal computer.)

The personal computer was invented by XEROX
I'll admit, the ipod was innovative, and the iphone was the first _popular_ capacitive screen phone. Gestures are cool as well. But, like everything apple produces, other companies have improved vastly upon them.

For example:
Android is a far more capable and open mobile OS, WP7 is more user friendly, WebOS (formerly PalmOS) is even more user friendly, and has the best multitasking (ios didnt have multitasking until version 4, whereas Android and PalmOS always did).

And apple seems to be copying other OSs' features, for example:
Multitasking gestures werent added to ios until well after the BB playbook and windows 8 both had it implemented.

The notification panel is a blatant copy of android, which is now being put into OSX as well.

Fully integrating email, messaging, and social networking into the OS has been part of ubuntu for many releases.

Windows and some tablet operating systems have had 3rd party applications similar to AirPlay for years.

And thats just the tip of the iceberg...

Steve Jobs invented the first widely popular personal computer. If you're going to bring up blatant copies, Apple is probably least guilty of this. Macbook Air was the first successful netbook and was blatantly copied about a year later, the iPad was the first widely popular multitouch tablet and is still being blatantly copied, same with the iPhone and iPod. As for AirPlay, third party is the keyword. Apple integrated it into all of it's devices and it works flawlessly.

I have an unlocked windows phone that was given to me partially broken and I intend to shoot it whilst filming at a high frame rate later this month. It is not user friendly! It is so convoluted by glitzy purposeless fluff that it is actually stressful to use! It is very similar to Windows 7 and Vista and nearly as useless.

In conclusion, Apple has many more innovations that have been copied by cheap off-brands than it has copied.

First _successful_ netbook, not the first netbook.
First _popular_ tablet, not first tablet.

Hardware advancements are going to be utilized by many companies, its part of how technology develops and advances. What i'm referring to is how Apple copies specific aesthetic parts of other operating systems. This is different, as those aesthetics are unique to the operating systems which pioneered them, unlike hardware and basic software fundamentals (icons, menus, buttons, textboxes, etc).

The iPod remains the only device made by apple that is unique, and thats only because of the way it looks. Functionally, its similar if not identical to most MP3 players.

WP7 is extremely simple. The tile layout makes accessing applications and viewing alerts a breeze. Its not the fault of the OS itself that you received a broken, low-end device. And if you're implying that windows 7 is useless, youre dead wrong. The amount of useful, professionally developed software (especially freeware) far surpasses that of MacOS. You just have to have a basic understanding of computers to operate it.

Also, other popular brands arent "cheap off-brands," apple is just ridiculously expensive. Off-brands make look alikes, not copies.

Before this argument goes any further, especially without either side winning.

Apple rarely invents things. That isn't what they do. What they do, is take ideas that other companies have done in the past, typically very poorly executed, and makes them useful. The Apple PC was not the first, but it was the first that was practical. The iPod was not the first MP3 player, but it was the first to be small AND intuitive. The iPhone was revolutionary not because of the inventions used, but because of the ease of use. No phone came close, and that is why most phones didn't have touch screens at the time. The iPad was about 10 years late to the tablet market, but it was the first one to actually do anything useful.

Yes, Android should get credit for a few things, but their entire system was created after Apple paved the way. If you want to give Android credit, you should give Apple credit for doing the exact same thing. Vice versa for Apple defenders.

It doesn't have to be one or the other. That said, Delkomatic should have his posting ability removed for blind bias. Critical_mach is correct in that Apple tries to provide simplistic functionality for the common user. If you are not the common user, that does not make Apple crappy. It makes it insufficient for YOUR needs. In that case, get an Android and enjoy it.

And, to be exact, Wozniak invented the first apple computers, and MSDOS was far more popular that apple.

ToomeyND

Thanks, it seems we kind of lost our heads in the argument. While I am not a common user, I still enjoy the simplicity for streamlining my work as a photographer as well as for school work.

Broseph
I disagree with your claim about the amount of software developed for either OS. Just because Apple ethically prohibits apps that are pornographic or perform illegal functions and that it allows the app designers to be reimbursed for their efforts does not figure in the success of the venture.

Theres plenty of software available for MacOS that can perform illegal functions, its just not in the app store. Regardless, i wasnt talking about programs for porn or illegal activities. Just general applications for various tasks such as image editing, software development, office, virtualization, internet use, social networking / messaging, games, movie production. Theres tons of options for any of these needs and more available for windows, whereas the options for mac are fairly limited in most areas.

I love Apple drones they get SO very defensive about their crapple

@delkomatic they need to justify the money they're tossing away.

lol true true

@critical_mach,

The one thing that scares me about apple is not their software or current hardware - but the direction in which they are taking their hardware. Take for example the MacBook Air and the Unibody design;

1. The "modular" hard drive unit does not exist in the MB Air (it is ALL flash storage) Basically, there is no way for someone with basic computer skills to upgrade their systems with a larger storage system - even if it's flash based - you just can't. Why not make it modular? Well it's all about money. With a modular storage unit you are now forced to either purchase a new system, or enter into a service contract with Apple.

2. Apple's battery systems are now very tightly integrated into the Unibody design. What does this mean for the consumer? . . .

Apple enjoys touting their long lasting battery system but I see this more about, once again - MONEY. Apple could have made a long lasting battery system that was interchangeable, but that would not have been smart business. Integrating the battery into the body of the MacBooks forces consumers into service contracts with Apple because if the battery stops functioning, then there's no way to easily replace it. Most importantly, this aims to keep competitively priced third party products (or vendors) OUT OF THE GAME!

YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT APPLE'S ETHICS?? . . . think about Apples Ethics of economics.

3. If their hardware trend is any indication of the future of their systems, then ALL OF THEIR SYSTEMS, the MacPro, MacBook Pro, MacMini - ALL OF THEM WILL VERY MUCH LOOK LIKE THE MACBOOK AIR IN THE FUTURE. As I see it, Apple is slowly taking their systems towards the mobile phone landscape where you will be forced to have a contract with apple or your hardware is USELESS.

Apple has not learned the lessons from the early years where they got greedy and would not allow anyone to touch their systems.

Be careful Apple, cause the ship is afloat now but it could start sinking again.

Just so you know,

I own a 15" MacBook Pro - $2,000, and a MacPro - $3,000

In 1999 I put together a windows based system for $600 which I continue to upgrade periodically. It currently has more memory, storage space, better graphics and sound than my recently purchased MacPro.

Menoc

You have slipped into speculation. You cannot predict the future. The solid state drive in the new Air is extremely efficient and fast. It is merely ahead of its time. All apple computers can be upgraded without the help of apple, contrary to popular belief.

Delkomatic

Still got a flat brainwave? Still can't come up with anything to add to your side? Lol you are a sad case for your argument. As for the price, Apple is a luxury. In the free market, they can set the prices of their goods and services. This has nothing to do with ethics, they merely count their goods as more valuable and are appealing to a higher brow customer base.

Menoc

I also own a midrange windows laptop. It feels cheap. it is plastic and creaks when I move it with one hand and the battery life is absolutely useless. to buy a new battery would cost more than a new computer. The battery was gone after two years. If I kept it for 6 years only upgrading the battery, it would put me over what I paid for my macbook pro. Previously, I had two desktops built from scratch and fully customized. They worked great for a time, but soon problems arose, not to do with construction on my end, they were just PCs. My entire household is now entirely apple based, and all problems are gone.

You haters are delusional! Apple is amazing! They are the best company in the world and they make the best computers ever! When I tried Windows, I just couldn't figure out how to use two buttons on the mouse. I had Windows for years and still couldn't figure it out. It's way too complex! And Start->Shutdown! Really? It took me 4 months to figure that out! Mac only has one button on the mouse, which is so much easier to use. My friends call me the 'one click tard'.

Also, many Windows computers cost as little as $399! Why would you go for that?!! $1299 is a much bigger number and bigger is always better. Who wouldn't choose $1299 every time! Linux is even worse. $0! WTF?!?! Why would anyone do that!!? What a joke!

Also, I wonder why so many windows faithfuls read this post! I guess you know you're missing something, you're just not ready to admit it!

@DirtySquirties:
I lol'd, seriously

@critical_mach:
I read it because i read everything in Gadgets ;)
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NORML

Apple is an prime example of one of Murphys' Laws. Make something that is idiot proof and only an idiot will use it

@dirtysquirties if you couldn't figure that stuff out your probably an idiot stop hating seriously

With a name like malemajority, do you think anyone will listen to anything you have to say? get out of 1950 and actually contribute some facts to the argument. One thing I've noticed, only broseph and I know how to properly argue a position, the rest of you are just plain brainless. I guess that stacks up with the side you take on this subject.

Broseph,

Thanks for a fun discussion with good facts and citations.

Peace bro.

Apple's touch interface for their Iphone and Ipad's are second to none. Their hardware is more expensive but their software is affordable and rarely crashes. As an IT professional I decided I should learn Apple and Apple gadgets just so I will know more about it or be familiar with it in the future. The thing is that computers were invented to improve people's productivity and quality of life. Not everyone will spend 20+ years learning how to make them work. Quite the contrary anyone that thinks newer computers are "dummed" down really dont know much about them. Easy to use does not mean less advanced or less engineering. Does everyone that drive a car need to know how to perform engine work on it? no they dont. I think Apple and Microsoft will eventually have a more work center oriented OS like Windows 7 and a more streamlined GUI like mountain lion or Windows 8. I think that a lot of people who buy tablets and or smartphones are not dedicated computer types and those of us that like our power PC's should be thankful that a lot of people are buying these gadgets because this is probably the main reason why more IT companies are not going belly up in this economy.

Delkomatic,
Perhaps you can augment your crapple innuendo?
Oh, just to let you know, I am not a big fan of apple. I see this company only purpose in life, but to keep competition alive and so Microsoft and the other few other operating systems cannot be called monopolies. As far as their actual hardware, I hate proprietary systems and they are not tech friendly to work on too.

Apple products sell more to the through away society that does not like to be challenged. It is sad, but that market is large and so apple products continue. It might as well be a Sinclair handheld pc.

@critical_mach
@auruoria

Crapple? lol you people make me giggle I love it please keep it coming!!

And as far as the SSD goes...I could buy one for my desktop for 60 bucks lol or get a windows based laptop with one a quarter of apples....lol name brands are everything though I guess...LETS ALL GO BUY BMW AND LEXUS YEAH!!!!
CRAPPLE FTW LONG LIVE CRAPPLE!!

Idk about you, but I'd buy a Merc or an Aston if given the opportunity. That really doesn't hold up (again) and where did you get those numbers? I couldn't find anything close.

Jerry Km takes the Bait LQL!!!!!!!!!! I personnaly am a PC fan, I like having the freedom of being able to manipulate my computer however I want in terms of hardware. want to switch the graffics card, no problem, time fora new hard drive, easy peasy. Want linux, simple. After getting my first Ipod i was sad to realize that if the battery dies, and they will, that i couldn't just get a new battery, that i would have to get a brand new Ipod. Its like buying a car, and when the alternator dies, and it will, i would have to get a new car because its integrated to the engine. But good discussion all around.

@critical_mach,

You said;

. . ." All apple computers can be upgraded without the help of apple, contrary to popular belief." . . .

Sure, but you forgot to say who is able to upgrade an apple computer.

I'm here to tell you with 100% certainty, as an A+, MCSE certified technician, no one without at least an A+ certification will be able to replace the battery or flash storage unit on a macbook air or macbook pro. Especially the apple crowd who loves simplicity and convenience - they have probably NEVER, EVER seen the inside of a macbook pro laptop, much less the inside of a macbook air which is EXTREMELY hard to open!!! . . if at all.

Again, MOST PEOPLE CANNOT REPAIR A MAC ON THEIR ON!!! . . . I HELP THESE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME . . . and apple tries EXTREMELY HARD at keeping it that way. It basically puts a huge damper on consumers having CHOICES!!! That is the reason why apple was comatose for a very long time, while the Windows based PC market flourished.

If it had not been for Steve Jobs and the iPod, NOTHING would have saved Apple from extinction.

ONCE MORE . . . THE SHIP MAY BE AFLOAT NOW, BUT IT COULD START SINKING AGAIN.

The following is my opinion:

I am personally a fan of windows I think they have the best ratio of stuff to price on products that use them. However I do like the quality of apple products and I prefer them in every case execept on pcs.

In pcs case what you could get on a $3000 mac is what you can get on a $800 windows pc. My point I just purchased a $800 laptop with an i7, 8gb ram, 750gb hard drive, and beats audio. If you want to argue the cheap plastic don't try it has an alluminum frame. I would love to see mac try to top that.

In other cases though such as with the tablets the ipad is the best. It was very well put together and marketed. It has the nicest design in my opinion and contrary to other iproducts it has an affordable price. Android does have a nice os but there is a reason why the ipad has half the tablet market, it works.

Menoc, My brother and I have no certification and we upgraded our macbook pro hard drives and ram without any difficulty or help from apple, other than the manual that came with the computer. So much for your guarantee.

bigb, I got a 15 inch macbook pro with 750 gb hd i7 quad core, backlit keyboard iLife AND OSX Lion for $1200. If you include a windows software suite and some basic media editing/organizing software (meaning not windows moviemaker and the photo gallery) you would approach that price.

You know I could really care less which is which I will go with the best product at the best price point so far right now its windows machines for what I need to do. Others are going to be diff...I just love geting a rise out of Mac users...so defensive its great.

You mentioned that already. You aren't even a part of the argument so you can't really claim anything. You got a rise out of pc users because of your stupid statement. How is it living with your mom?

@ critical_mach
That's weird because they start at $1799

awww I think Critical_Mach is mad??

U mad bro...its ok.../hug bro /hug

@critical_mach;

You were not reading carefully - or perhaps you choose to ignore the details.

I was not talking about the Hard drive and memory. I am talking specifically about the BATTERIES on both the Macbook Pro and the Macbook air AND the Flash storage unit in the Macbook Air. I'M CURIOUS . . . Did you upgrade those SPECIFIC COMPONENTS??

I don't have a problem with flash storage - on the contrary, we should all use flash storage because of the performance gains and reliability of no mechanical parts. My problem lies with the way Apple manipulates how their systems are built and how they structure it in a way that leaves consumers NO OPTIONS AFTER YOU HAVE SPENT LARGE SUMS OF MONEY ON THEIR SYSTEMS. - IF YOU WERE TO PURCHASE A MACBOOK AIR TODAY, 4-5 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN YOUR WARRANTY, OR SERVICE CONTRACT, RUNS OUT, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO UPGRADE YOUR MACBOOK AIR YOURSELF BECAUSE THE PARTS ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. THE CONSUMER WILL BE FORCED TO PURCHASE A WHOLE NEW COMPUTER OR GET A NEW SERVICE CONTRACT. APPLE LEAVES YOU NO CHOICE. . .THAT'S HOW APPLE LIKES IT.

You I speculate about the future of the Apple systems . . . but you don't have to be a magician see the winds of change and how apple is taking their computing system in the direction of full integration and no interchangeable parts - oversized versions of the iPhone (the iPad is a perfect example).

"That's weird because they start at $1799"

It's called macmall with the student discount!

The air starts at $875 on macmall

@ everyone...

when has "crappy plastic" affected your ability to use a computer?

status symbols are important for some people. let them have their toys.

seriously though...i love pc's because they are modular and upgradeable. i am NOT a fan of apple products because they are designed and engineered as a product, with no intention of alteration. for me, at least, funtion > form.

if you're buying a computer for a "toy", then ok. if you need a "machine", work output > brushed aluminum.

@triumvirant

Uh, if/when I drop my laptop. Also, it's a matter of durability of the components. The image of a mac is not the main reason to get one. If they are 'toys' then why are they often more reliable than pcs? When it comes to work output, macs are near the top. For everything except graphically intense gaming, macs are superior. Also, macs do not require antivirus software that hog cpu and slow down your machine. So, the toy status symbol outworks the working mans machine, eh? Oh, and you get what you pay for.

@critical_mach

Your fanboyism is atrocious.

You think just because a macbook has an shiny aluminum body that it's inner components are top quality?

You say that Apple computers are close to PCs WHEN YOU HAVE A STUDENT DISCOUNT. How much cheaper would you get a PC with a student discount?

You say that you don't need security software on a mac? That's a lie. Why do you think Mountain Lion provides new security software?

Just because you have problems with your PC does not mean they are all of bad quality. There are so many vendors to choose from. It's your fault for choosing a vendor that doesn't provide quality products.

Almost all of your arguments for Apple are flawed. The only thing Apple products have going for them is their ease of use. Well suited for a simple minded person like yourself.

And your comment about work output being higher than most on a mac... well that's just downright laughable.

@kwitz

Lol! Did you google all those big words? Impressive! I also like how you only present your opinion, mixed with personal attacks, with no supporting evidence. Learn how to present your side of an argument before you hurt your cause more. All I have to say to you.

@critical_mach

we win. PC fans easily outnumber you Crapple sheep lol. you guys keep enjoying your toys while us PC people enjoy a true personal computer.

"religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom"

-Killah Priest

my roomate's aunt makes $83/hr on the laptop. She has been without work for 8 months but last month her pay was $8682 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more on this site...Nuttyrich . com

@jedimindset

Again typical pc non-creativity. No supporting argument, just an illogical reference liking an argument to a battle. So was Galileo wrong because he was outnumbered? Get a brain and come back later.

I will, however, enlarge on my rebuttal of kwitz

Um, yes, while the aluminum body is not the basis of my reasoning that the parts are better quality, any research into an aftermarket upgrade or replacement will show that. The quality and durability goes a long way into explaining the higher price, hence, my luxury car analogy. Yet again, you childlike pc fanboys trivialized that into a status booster. enjoy your honda civics and cubicles.

Pc's don't offer as large a student discount as Mac. So there goes your second semi-valid point

I had a brand new Toshiba Satellite that died after one year. I took excellent care of it, it was just cheaply built.

And I love how you describe my statements as laughable when you don't even present a reason for it! You are the simple minded one.

@critical_mach
The internal parts of a mac are no different than the internal parts of PC. The only difference is the body, which is now impossible to open without special tools. Aftermarket upgrades are much easier and practical on PC's as they can generally support more upgrades and can actually be opened by anybody, not just people with special screwdrivers that require a license to use.

PC's dont need a student discount, as decent PC's already cost less retail than a mac with a discount.

Toshibas suck, especially the satellite series.

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NORML

You really are a person of one idea, aren't you? It is not impossible to upgrade a mac, and you don't need a license. One of the reasons macs are built securely is because they are built to last with parts that don't wear out. Parts, that are much more durable than those of most pcs, contrary to your opinion. Macs are designed to be more than adequate for nearly all users from the base model. Another aspect of your argument that everyone is neglecting is the cost of pc upgrades. People seem to be assuming that they are so vastly cheaper than those of macs that they are almost negligible. This is not the case.

As I proved in my earlier argument, pcs start to approach the price of a non-discounted mac.

Toshiba's are one of the more reliable brands according to several of my pc friends. I also have friends who have had high-end hp and dell laptops die after a year or so.

They do have special screws on their more popular products which are impossible to unscrew unless you have a special screwdriver. The only way to get one is to either buy one from ifixit or get a job at Apple as a repair person.

Again, apple uses the same internal parts as many other manufacturers. They aren't using some futuristic internal components, its literally all the same parts, just with lame buzzwords tacked on like "superdrive." They switched to Intel processors years ago since their powerpc processors were crap, and they use NVIDIA graphics cards, all plugged into standard motherboards.

Your friends must have very limited computer knowledge, as Toshiba is far from being a reliable brand. HP has always had problems with their hard drives in their laptops dying, and dell just sucks all around.

Asus has the lowest failure rate of all computer manufacturers, including apple.

All of this information can be found very easily online.
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NORML

Oh, and since a pc with equal specs to a mac will almost always be cheaper (with the exception of alienware, which sucks anyway) than the mac, the cost of upgrading is irrelavent.
------------------------
NORML

Broseph,

You just stated that four of the most widely popularized pc manufacturers are 'crap' and named only one that is worthwhile. From my research, Asus is a very poor company with bad customer service. Also, the price difference does not make the cost of upgrading irrelevant, this is a logical fallacy. You also overlook the fact that pcs require special tools to disassemble as well. Dude, you are failing. One $18 dollar set of screwdrivers is not enough of a reason to buy a pc, which would require me to buy tools to upgrade as well.

In closing, if you were to mix and match components of the mainstream pcs on the market, which would require the same price as a mac, you would come somewhat close to the pros of a mac, with the cons of a pc. i.e., viruses, antivirus software, poor customer support (in general) and overall poor parts and build quality, and after all of this, your computer would most likely die after a few years without you relentlessly upgrading parts. Macs are well built, well supported, designed with a streamlined OS, they are built to last without upgrading, and require no computer experience to operate, yet are a solid platform to perform all necessary functions of a high-end computer. Apple is an ethical company that uses primarily original ideas, or executes unoriginal ideas in an original and improved way.

From personal experience, Asus seems to have stepped up their customer service. Regardless, HP, Toshiba, dell, and Apple are all popular because of mass advertising. 90% of people in the market for computers have no clue what they're doing, so they either go with what is most advertised or what is most expensive, because they're to tech illiterate to use any other logic.

How is the cost of upgrading relevant? You don't need to upgrade your computer for it to work. Again, if you buy a pc and a mac with THE SAME SPECIFICATIONS out of the box, the pc will always be cheaper. You don't need to upgrade it for it to be on the same level as the mac, because it already IS.

And ill say it again, apple uses THE SAME PARTS. The only difference in build quality is the material they wrap it in, which isn't anything special. Plus, almost all pc laptops and desktops can be disassembled with a standard phillips screwdriver and your hands. You don't need a fancy "pentalobular" screwdriver. Anyway, the fastest processor you can get in an imac is a quad core i7 at 2.9 GHz. The best graphics card you can get is a 2GB laptop graphics card. If anything, the hardware they use is behind other manufacturers.

By building your own pc, you can save even more money, and get an even larger performance boost.

I don't need AntiVirus. Contrary to popular belief, Windows doesnt just "get" viruses. You either have to be trying or just stupid to get one.
------------------------
NORML

You can only disassemble a pc to a certain point with a normal screwdriver, then you need tools just like a mac. Apple does use different higher quality parts for their macs, just the graphics cards and processors are universal now. Macs are only just moving into gaming, however, my macbook pro has no graphics errors with high intensity games, and my processor only lags when I am batch editing raw 1080p video. How is a normal person who can't figure out how to nor has the tools to upgrade a mac, going to build a pc from scratch? You don't need antivirus? but I bet you have it. You know that there is a good chance you will get your system trashed by a virus.

As for buying a pc with the same spec, I have , and it died within two and a half years. which is fine, if you don't mind buying a whole new system every few years, whereas a mac from 7 years ago will run the latest OSX still.

Upgrading is relevant in the long run because pcs wear out. Simple as that.

Apple hardly advertises its computers anymore. It widely publicizes its mobile devices, but in comparison to other companies it is almost off the radar screen.
I have never stooped to he level of owning an asus, thankfully, but if they are as wonderful as you seem to think, why aren't they as wildly popular as others? Quality trumps advertising, as apple proves by primarily advertising its mobile devices.

Yet again, your argument is to full of holes. Go troll some android article now.

I've assembled and disassembled countless desktop and laptop pcs from pretty much every manufacturer there is and I've never needed more than a phillips screwdriver.

What higher quality parts are we talking about here? Please, do tell what specific parts mac uses that are different and better than any pc parts. I bet you can't!

My computer is perfectly capable of rendering HD video and playing high intensity games, and I spent less on it, and I guarantee it does it better than yours.

A quick Google / YouTube search can teach you how to build a pc from scratch. its as simple as legos. Literally as simple as legos.

I don't need or use antivirus because I'm not some idiot that clicks porn ads and downloads torrents all day. Like I said, you have to either be trying or stupid to get a virus on a pc.

And if you bought a good brand of pc (Asus) you wouldnt have an issue with it dying. Asus uses higher quality parts than mac, and statistically has a drastically lower failure rate than apple products.

Pcs don't "wear out." Another obviously biased and uneducated opinion.

I realize apple doesnt advertise much, that's why I mentioned that illiterates also go for what's most expensive, assuming its better.

And I'm not trolling, you just think you know more than you really do.
------------------------
NORML

Another thing: the newest version of Osx you can run on a 7 year old mac is tiger.
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NORML

Wow, your argument has regressed into personal attacks. Impressive. Anyone who does not want to comment on the article directly is trolling. I got sucked into defending apple because of you trolls. My roommate just tried to disassemble his hp notebook the other day and could not access his fan without a special screwdriver. Talk about uneducated bias, my friend. While I don't have the time right now to research the specifics of macs parts nor do I know them off the top of my head, I don't see you presenting any supporting numbers either. Seems like you think you know more than you do as well. Also, on the article, look who announced their desktop/mobile os hybrid today? Windows 8! I rest my case, Apple is the one who has the ideas and is ripped off by cheap crap. The end. I do not plan on commenting anymore.

BTW, famous last words on my part, I'm sure I'll end up commenting more, it's just frustrating that the trolls have subsided into personal attacks and unfounded, unprovable statements. (looks like someone failed debate class at Troll School.)

What personal attacks?

You list one brand (which sucks anyway) that supposedly requires special tools to remove an obscure part that nobody would need to replace anyway. Good job.

If you haven't researched the internal parts of mac, how do you figure youre in any position to tell me that their internals are better? Ive seen the inside of macs before, and they use the same parts. They always have used the same parts. Quit trying to convince me that the internals are better in a mac, when you yourself even admit that you dont know whats inside.

What supporting numbers am i supposed to provide? I said they use standard parts, and they do. If you want numbers, heres some for you: Apple charges $700 for a raid controller in a mac pro, which is required to achieve raid 0. Top-of-the-line raid controllers can be purchased for $50 retail, far less online, for the same technology.

Also, if youve been paying attention, the developer preview of windows 8 was publicly released as a developer demo more than a month BEFORE OSX LION.
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NORML

And its pretty ironic that you're so upset at "personal attacks and unfounded, unprovable statements" when youre calling me a troll, have made other personal attacks on other commentors, and have been trying this whole time to convince me that mac has better internals when you dont even know whats in them.
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NORML

Uh, that's one number. I call you a troll for trolling articles on products you don't like. I didn't troll the windows 8 article, because you are happy in your little bubbles. Also, Mountain Lion released its developer prerelease before windows released its test version.

I didn't say I don't know what is in a mac, I do. I just haven't run comparisons lately and I do not have the hard numbers in front of me. I have talked to people who have rebuilt macs and I have seen the internals of a mac and pcs. The parts of pcs are composed of plastic parts, while mac is primarily metal. Also, the reason that I name only one brand of computer is there is only one apple and one mac. there are tons of cheapo pcs out there. You say mac is unethical to charge so much for machines that last longer than the competition, run better and are better made, what about the companies who charge to much for cheap windows crap? there's a lot more of that. I can see you are firm set in your ways and no one is going to convince you otherwise, so why are you still here? go tout your pc bs to people who care. (that wasn't a personal attack, just a generalization)

My first comment was in response to you, because you decided to feed a troll with uneducated opinions.

Anyway, the first usable builds of windows 8 were leaked onto the internet as early as September 2010, more than 6 months before lion was released. Lion, not mountain lion. Mountain lion wasnt even in development yet at that point.

Internal parts made primarily of metal on macs, and plastic on pc's? Are you on coke? The motherboards, ram chips, and graphics cards (you know, the parts that actually make the computer work) are all made of the same materials in EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER. The processors are literally exactly the same (intel i5, i7, xeon), the hard drives are standard sata hard drives, and the power supply is standard as well. Like i said earlier, the "superdrive" is a standard optical drive with no bluray support. Apple doesnt manufacture ANY of the internal parts on macs. The only things apple makes are their laptop batteries and the cases. Everything else is shipped in from other companies, most likely at a wholesale discount.

Mac charges more than 200% more than what their computers are actually worth. It is unethical to do so, regardless of what kind of market its in, because they DONT last longer than all other brands, or perform any better! Besides, alienware is the only popular brand that overcharges, and theyre owned by dell. Dell sucks.

And what do you mean by "cheap windows crap?" You realize that the operating system has NOTHING to do with the hardware, right? You can run osx on a pc given its set up correctly, and it will perform EXACTLY the same as it would on a mac.

Besides, Asus computers last longer than macs, and are less likely to fail. What part of that dont you understand?

And apparently you do care, because youre the first one to reply to trolls, and have been arguing your BS with me for days, even though youre blatantly incorrect.
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NORML

LMAO guys just stop arguing. Apple or Microsoft is not sponsoring either of you. i wish that they made a computer that used all the positive from both to create the ULTIMATE COMPUTER. i foresee Google making this possible. the Google PC. it will also be portable and have infinite hard drive space.

"religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom"

-Killah Priest

Wow troll, I know that some components are the same. Duh. Uneducated? You are the one who seems to be uneducated because you have no grasp of economics of a free market, or how to argue effectively. I was referring to the batteries and body of the computer. Also, you won't run into plastic screws in a mac. I was avoiding overuse of the name 'pc' in my argument, that's why I generalized as windows. You obviously have very little grasp of effective sentence construction.

Mac will last longer than almost, if not all other brands. Ask anyone who has switched from pc to mac, me included. Also, on most tasks, macs perform better.

Apple does not overcharge for its products, it just values its technology, which in non-homogenized areas is superior to its competition, higher than the competition. In the free market, demand regulates price. Would you like to socialize the open market as well as your healthcare? Apparently you would.

I didn't reply to a troll, I defended a position I have. Blatantly incorrect? Don't make me laugh! The reviews of Asus online ranked lower and in one case equal with the macbook pro.

You have such a weak grasp with reality, you both ignore all views contrary to your own and peddle your same weak points over again with personal slashes mixed in to distract from the fact that your arguments are completely unfounded.

See, now youre contradicting yourself. First you say the parts are made primarily of metal. Now you say the opposite. First you complain about people making personal attacks, now look at what youre doing.

All delkomatic said was "Crapple." Replying to that comment was simply feeding a troll.

Apple does overcharge for their products. Just because its a free market doesnt make it ethical to charge more than 200% extra for basic hardware. Is it ethical to have sex with children in cambodia just because its legal?

They value their technology? You mean their foxconn motherboards, intel processors, nvidia graphics cards, and seagate hard drives? They use the same parts from the same manufacturers that are used by acer, toshiba, and sony for their computers. Apple gets these parts at a bulk discount, meaning they likely make 300 - 400% profit on them.

My arguments are unfounded? Yet you cant provide any solid evidence as to why apple has better parts, and i can list which brands manufacture the internals.

A weak grasp with reality? What the hell are you talking about? How is that even relevant to this conversation? I have replied to and rebutted every single argument you've made. How am i ignoring anything? You're just wrong.

If i can provide actual statistics and brand names on parts and all you can do is say "oh but mac has better internals anyway" over and over again, who is the one peddling weak points?

Macs are nice, i never said they arent. My point is that they dont use their own parts, and they overcharge by hundreds of percent for parts from other companies. They keep you in what is generally referred to as the "apple reality distortion field." A walled garden where they make you feel all nice and warm when in reality theyre ripping you off right under your nose.

You are a perfect example of one of their sheep. Someone willing to spend large sums of money for a product that isnt worth nearly what they charge, and is easily convinced by buzzwords and apple's own arrogance to believe theyre getting a product that is genuinely better and more advanced than all other brands. They make you feel like a caveman if you dont upgrade every year or two. They force you to buy new versions of OSX in order to use software which is perfectly compatible with previous versions.

They charge $200 for 4 GB of ram, normally $60 retail.

They charge $150 MORE for 2 TB of hard drive space (meaning they charge approximately $300 for a 2 TB drive). A 2 TB hard drive with the same specifications FROM THE SAME BRAND APPLE USES is only $120 retail.

They charge $50 for tunderbolt cables, $30 for a AA BATTERY CHARGER, and $40 for hdmi adapters for iPads.

They also charge $170 for apple care, which includes hardware warranty AND TECH SUPPORT. Since when does tech support cost money? Apple is the only brand i've ever heard of which charges for tech support. 2 year (renewable) hardware warranties are usually available from other manufacturers for around $20.

Yet people like you will defend apple to the death the moment someone slanders their holy name.
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NORML

My comment to delkomatic was a side issue. No troll feeding. Okay, you HAVE lost complete touch with reality. Let me state clearly. I know that if you boil a computer down to the silicone in its chips they are basically the same. Macs, however have the unibody design ( which is neither impossible nor difficult to navigate), superior battery and OS (which cannot LEGALLY be configured for a pc without violating licensing. Talk about ethics? Pick the log out of your eye.)

Here is an illustration. If you take a volkswagen and an aston martin, and you boil them down, they use some of the same parts, some on the volkswagen might even be better; however, the aston is ten times the price. You are paying for a name, and a look, but most importantly you are paying for engineering. You could change the battery in your aston or your passat with very little knowledge, however, the aston would be slightly more complicated and most people would take either car to the shop.

Apple Care? I have never bought this and I have used customer support on the very rare occasion that my mac has trouble. Wow, I have never received a bill? Could this be possible? After all, what should I know, oh guru of all things electronic? I who just switched from pc to mac fully over the summer? With all of my pcs I have never received satisfactory customer support over all the years that I struggled with them.

You compare Apples prices with sodomy? Wow, and I thought your grasp with reality couldn't get weaker. It's economics, not ethics! You will not buy apple because it is overpriced, but instead buy less expensive products at greater frequency. I, on the other hand, will gladly pay for the better product and be happy. This keeps the free market going. If the prices are to high and the product doesn't stack up, apple will lose customers to pc and will lower its prices. Do the math (if you can) stick with pcs and let me enjoy my mac in peace.

You were the one that said it was ethics in the first place! Once again, you're contradicting yourself.

The difference between an aston Martin and a volkswagon is the internal parts. The aston will perform better because it has a v12 and carefully machined parts. Therefore, its more expensive. I just listed to you precisely which brands make the internals on a mac, yet you still don't seem to get it. A couple pounds of aluminum and a fancy battery don't cost $1000-2000.

Apple states on their site that Apple care is $169 and includes tech support.

You have need tricked by Apple. you fell for the hype. Congratulations.

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NORML

And what do you mean the thing with delkomatic was a side issue? He was trolling, you initiated an argument with him. That's called feeding. All the uneducated bs you were spouting at him is what caused this whole ordeal in the first place.
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NORML

I initiated no argument. I never argued with him. You obviously don't know much about cars, you can get a v8 in an aston and a golf, if the golf is a gti, they will have nearly the same power output. Volkswagen is less expensive to fix and upgrade, some materials are more expensive, but not to justify the tenfold price difference. In fact, Ford owns aston and many parts are actually parts that can be found in the focus and other ford cars. Will you argue that the aston is a waste of money? I was never contradicting myself, I always claimed that it was NOT a matter of ethics. Perhaps if you would read the actual argument, you could better format yours.

I don't know what tech support apple is providing with the care pack, but I have never been fooled into buying anything from them. I have been forced circumstantially to buy more things to support my pcs than my mac. You are the fool. Congratulations

You are now trolling. Anybody who knows how to scroll up can see that youre contradicting yourself.
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NORML

How can you troll something you support? you're the troll. Pray tell, how have I contradicted my argument that Apples prices have nothing to do with ethics? You seem to have broken down in your argument. I was taking for a given that mac is the only computer with an all aluminum unibody design, rather than insulting what little intelligence you have by pointing out it is engineering genius for making a more durable, yet lightweight foundation for and excellent and stylish machine.

You have yet to make any argument that justifies Apple for charging as much as they do, or that proves that the actual internal parts are better. Now you're just saying things to try and piss me off, so you're trolling.
------------------------
NORML

You have completely ceased from arguing and I am not attempting to annoy you any more than you are attempting to annoy me. I gave you my justification: Apple's time and resources put into engineering their machines and their unibody design and impressive battery. I am not interested in pursuing your trivial claim that I am trolling something that I support. You don't have any ties to this page. You do not hold any loyalties to the article or the product. You are trolling merely by the fact that you are arguing a futile point on an article that you do not agree with.

So because Apple had the brilliant idea to use aluminum (though they weren't the first), and because they have fancy batteries in their laptops, that justifies them charging $1000-2000 extra for their desktops? I can see that justifying a $100-200 price difference, but we're talking a difference of THOUSANDS of dollars. They simply aren't worth that much money. I've proven this numerous times over, and at one point you even commended me for my ability to argue a solid point and use facts.
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NORML

Is it a justification for aston to charge ten times as much as volkswagen? Price is not necessarily a matter of strict quality. I believe that you get what you pay for with a mac. You obviously don't. You have proven that certain elements are priced higher, that is like saying 'the windows (no pun intended) in your db9 are the same glass as my golf, yet yours cost ten times as much. That compares to sodomizing cambodian children.' You cannot boil this down to a part that costs more, it might be the same part, however, my family has had macs for close to ten years and never replaced a part because it broke. (My brother and I have upgraded his mac as I stated before.) Also, if you are upgrading yourself, you wouldn't necessarily buy from apple. (You will claim this is contradicting myself, but I never stated one way or the other whether I would buy upgrades directly from apple.) Yes, because apple had the brilliant idea to successfully incorporate a computer into a single piece of aluminum, they are as justified in their price as aston martin is in pricing its machines. I complimented you on your ability to argue in comparison to the other dopes who were trolling the comments.

Fitting a computer into a single piece of aluminum was a brilliant business idea, as it mars it nearly impossible for most users to do repairs by themselves.

Allow me to make a car analogy that fits this argument a bit better:
Suppose a Porsche dealer has a carrera GT with a composite body, and a 911 with an aluminum body. Obviously, the carrera GT is a better car, but the dealer is charging $500000 for it, while the 911 costs $2.5 million. Oh yeah, and the 911 has leather seats.

My point is that with PC, you get a lot more for a lot less. If you grew up with mac and are more used to it, fine. But Apple isn't justified. If its your opinion that Apple products are worth your money, why are you arguing? Your opinion is not fact. Part for part, mac computers ARE NOT worth the money. That is a fact. I can put a computer together that can blow any mac away, I can assemble it with the utmost care, and I could probably get a used car with it, all for the price of a mac.
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NORML

makes* not mars. stupid spell check....

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NORML

Your argument doesn't stack up. For one, you got the prices backwards, a carbon composite frame on a car is lighter and more durable than aluminum. One is designed specifically for the track, while the other is for everyday use. You do not get more for less, you get more engineering with apple. Another weakness in your analogy is that they are the same manufacturer. Apple doesn't make plastic computers. I gave an analogy of two cars designed to fill the same position. You also forgot to mention that you are also merely expressing your opinion, which is also not fact. I would like to see a normal person put together a computer while only performing google searches. When you have a mac, you will find you don't need to perform repairs. What a revelation! You obviously can't imagine what this must be like. Anyway, I have used pcs all my life until recently and I am never going back. I tried so many brands and even a homebuilt model. They were still the same old frustrating pieces of junk in the end. Oh, and the carrera gt is $800,000 at the outside, not 2.5 mil. Get your facts straight.

Also, I have now backed up my 'opinion' with fact as well as rebutting yours (with fact)

I was using a hypothetical situation, I also said the 911 was $2.5 mil, not the carrera, and regardless, you only rebutted my analogy. You didn't prove at all that macs are worth as much money.....
This is stupid I know you're trolling me....
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NORML

I'M trolling? Lol here's the definition:
A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread.

I can't be trolling because I am on topic. My analogies are to clarify my thesis, so they are applicable to the topic. You are a flamer and a troll because you don't agree with the article and you are trying to change the subject to apple instead of mountain lion. The 911 IS the CHEAPER version of the carrera i.e., the road version. it's 90,00-250,000. I rest my case.

All you've proven is that you know a thing or two about cars, and that you are incapable of spending 5 minutes to do preventive maintenance when you get a computer.

The argument has been about apple the entire time. I never changed the subject.

Putting a computer together is as simple as legos, and a google search or two will give you all the info you need. Screw in a few parts, plug a couple things in, put the cover back on. Simple as that.

Im not stating an opinion. You are. You said "I believe that you get what you pay for with a mac." So, its your opinion. That doesnt change the fact that theyre overcharging for basic hardware. Case closed.
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NORML

You just did, troll. It's about Apple's new OS, not Apple! You are such a tardo. I know how to build a pc! I have done it. It's not like legos. You have to constantly be worried about static electricity building up that could ruin components and about dust getting into connections etc. All because you are to cheap to pay for a professional to build your computer in a hermetically sealed lab.

I told you, they don't overcharge for basic hardware. You still can't get that through your thick skull. You are boiling down their price for a whole system into components. I just proved this to you: It's like saying an aston is overpriced because it has dunlop tires that are the same as a minivan.

Oh, and changing the subject to building a pc is another troll just so you know.

Read the first 2 comments. It's been about Apple. You started glorifying Apple, I argued against that. Later on, though, but this particular argument has been about Apple the entire time.

You don't have to worry about ESD if you keep one hand touching the chassis. Not very difficult.

Apple does overcharge for basic components. Do some comparisons yourself. Engineering means nothing because it neither affects performance or usability. It's certainly not worth thousands of dollars per machine.
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NORML

Here is my first comment. I didn't think it necessary to reiterate the first comment.
@Delkomatic
Wow. How profound and mature. Apple has, by far, the best quality materials in their products, the best ethics, and the biggest innovations of any electronics company in existence today.
I can't wait for the new OS. Apple always impresses with each new iteration.

________

As you can see, I commented on the article. I refer to the ethics of the company, as in, their policies on piracy, adult content, etc. You twisted it into price difference which is NOT ethics.

Did you actually say engineering has nothing to do with performance? LOL You realize that every single component of every computer, mac and pc, was designed by engineers? What century are you living in?

Oh it's so easy to keep one hand on the chasis, and set screws, handle delicate components and handle tools all with one hand.

Yeah, your first comment was glorifying Apple. So, it was about Apple. Get it?

Regardless, the argument we are currently in is about hardware costs and performance differences, and has been.

Yeah it is easy to be grounded, you only need to be grounded to the chassis in certain situations. If you've assembled a computer before you should know this.

I understand that the parts are engineered, but the difference in engineering between macs and pcs is in the case. Therefore, it doesn't affect performance or usability. Only looks. Still not worth the extra thousands.
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NORML

Who is this article about? Apple. I showed support for the company this article is about and then commented on the article. You are splitting hairs. I was not the person to initiate the pc v mac debate, I am merely defending the article.

You don't apparently know about physics either, static charge builds up while you aren't grounded.

Is insane battery life and flawless OS affect performance? Yup. It's not just looks, effective engineering of the body improves portability and durability. The sum total of this is worth the money.

Yeah static builds up when you aren't grounded, so ground yourself while doing something that can cause a discharge to the board. You aren't constantly at risk of discharging to the board. If you're really that worried, just get an antistatic wrist strap. They're really cheap.

Flawless OS? Aha, no. Besides, its only $30. The batteries aren't $1000 either, and they aren't used in the desktops. And just because the case is durable doesn't mean the parts inside are more durable. A drop can still jar the processor out of its socket, open connections, cause head crashes, and crack the screen. Still doesn't come close to adding up.
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NORML

My point with the static buildup is that this adds to the overall price of your build and also adds complexity that inexperienced people will not get.

Wow, there you go again, the battery is the whole price of the computer. As for the OS, that is what we SHOULD be discussing, you just knew you had a better chance by trolling about prices. The Mac OS is the best polished, user friendly OS on the market, and it is only $30.
For someone who has never owned a mac, you seem to know a lot more than is logically possible. If we are talking about batteries, we are obviously talking about laptops, halfwit. the point of the machined frame is to hold components securely so they won't be jarred by a fall. put an egg in a block of that has a concavity that is designed for the egg and it won't break before the block does. If you get a ssd, this eliminates hd issues from drops entirely. The screen won't crack unless it has blunt trauma to it.

Why are you still here? Don't you have a life, troll? You just keep putting up the same old arguments that I keep rebutting. Just admit you have lost.

Your only arguments that macs are worth the money are the OS, the battery, and the case. You're plainly implying that either the case or the battery is worth roughly $1000, because the OS is $30. Figure it out.

And I have owned a mac. I enjoyed it a lot. But i won't buy another one until the price drops considerably.

You were the one talking about laptops in the first place. I've been talking about desktops the entire time. Hence why I've been comparing prices between imac parts and pc components.

And look at you, resorting to personal attacks. I've backed up all my arguments with fact but that apparently isn't enough for you. You can do all the comparisons yourself, its easy to see, but you refuse to do so.

This became a pissing match long ago. Enjoy pissing in the dark, because I'm out. peace.
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NORML

That is your only argument on why it costs so much! I was showing my frustration and you attacked me just as much. You are still being a retard and blindly biased. You are saying that the WHOLE price of the computer is nailed to the price of two components. If you count the price of all the components, then add extra for the class leading battery, screen, and case, then you have the price apple is charging. You just keep conveniently cutting out all the other stuff you're paying for. i.e., you are arguing that you are paying for the battery and body panels of an aston.

Okay, here is my final explanation:
You can buy a cheap car that probably won't last very long that is just as powerful as an aston martin. You could even build one from a kit. Most people won't be able to/want to build one. No one will argue that Aston Martin should charge $22,000 for the DB-9 because 'it just doesn't add up' you are ignoring the fact that Aston pays for more testing and development on its cars, they are being assembled by professionals in a professional environment, Aston has built a reputation for a quality, high-end product, they have engineered the components they are responsible for to be precisely like they want them. This is what you are paying for, not some aluminum and a battery. You are just so thick, that you will let nothing sway you in your false position.

You made no comparisons that were useful, merely a bunch of individual numbers that have very little bearing on the overall assessable cost of the product. Your argument was based on your opinion and some prices on New Egg. Your argument was flawed from the beginning and it has completely fallen down.

By the way, nice attempt to regain some self image by your last comment! You were the one 'pissing' I have merely reiterated my factual points and expressed my frustration at how unreasonable you are to sense spelled out so even a mental child like you could understand.

Victory is sweet! XD

YOU were the one saying the battery and case were the bulk of the cost, not me.

All your "facts" are just more opinions. My argument was based on actual, cited FACTS, and prices for all the parts necessary to put a BETTER computer together from newegg.

Apple breeds little douches like you. You fall for their trickery, then you become an arrogant tard. You lost the argument, but you obviously either are too full of yourself to see it, or you know damn well that you're wrong and you can't bring yourself to admit it because you'd look like a fool ONLINE.

Just so you know, getting the last word in doesn't mean you've won, it just means you're too arrogant to give up when you've lost.

I'm sure that the illusion of having "won" an argument on the internet will greatly improve the quality of your life. Lemme guess, you're going to go gloat to all your Apple butt-buddies at starbucks.

Enjoy your little so called "victory." At least I get the satisfaction of knowing I'm right about you and our argument. Just so you know, you'll never make it anywhere in life with an attitude like yours. Gloat it up while you can, because sooner or later life will give you one hell of a wake up call.
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NORML

And I'm willing to bet any sum of money that if we were arguing face to face, you'd be yelling over me like a 5th grader rather that producing any coherent arguments. I can read you like a book.

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NORML

Someone is bitter! I never said they were the bulk of the cost, I said that was worth paying extra for. You are so retarded you can't get the facts straight. YOU can build a computer, what about your mom? I would only be yelling at you if you were pushing your same incoherent arguments like you are here! I care nothing about this argument, I am standing for a company that I believe in, that's why I'm still here.

You were citing that the whole cost of a computer was based on two components! How does that work? So all the other stuff is free? I gave you a hypothetical situation that is undeniably similar to the subject of our argument and clarifies my point until it is undeniable. You cited a few parts, not enough to build a working machine, and completely ignored the holes in your arguent. I pointed these out to you time and time again to no avail. You claimed an illogical position and clung to it so desperately you have completely ceased from adding any value your own position and are now just hurting your cause. You are a bitter pasty faced pc tard your face glowing in your backlight and you can't admit you are wrong. You can read me like a book? You know how to read? Surprising! You are hopeless. You have no life, go die.

Anyway, I thought this had 'been a pissing match for a long time.' and 'you were done.' What happened? Did you realize you have nothing better to do than to check this page?

Just to prove to you that my argument still stands, here is this:

You are quantifying the cost of apple products into a few components that will not even create a working computer. Here is the logic behind apples prices:
1. Economics of supply and demand dictate prices, not necessarily component prices.
2. Haven't you heard that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts? It's easy to see with cars, and you won't deny which car is better.
3. If the only people buying macs are retards who don't know about computers, why is mac more popular than most if not all pc brands? Especially in this economy?

These are some new expressions of my original facts that you ignored. After I gave you my car analogy, you admitted that you can see macs costing a few hundred bucks more, but not a thousand. I don't know where you got this number from, because I would love to see where you can get a mac killing pc for free. your fallacies include:
1. Not including all price variables in your assessment of the product.
2. Ignoring the fact that your alternative will also cost money.
3. Completely ignoring any arguments that you feel you have lost, which by the end was everything.
4. Cycling arguments that have been rebutted to distract from the failure of your fresh attempts.

I don't expect anything new in response to this. Maybe a few personal attacks mixed with your same old tired points. The usual I guess.

Also, I would like to apologize for all of the personal remarks that I have made. They were uncalled for and I realize they detracted from the debate. It is much easier to express frustration in this way online rather than in person. I hope we both would have been more respectful face to face.

So, basically, its your opinion that macs are worth the extra money. How's about we leave it at that, agree to disagree, and move on. We're both wasting our time here.
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NORML

We can agree to disagree, but it is more than my opinion that macs are worth it. For a product to have a loyal customer base for such a long time shows that their good, no matter what the opinions of some people, is valued at its price. If it weren't worth it, apple would be where hp is now. We won't convince each other one way or another, so peace!

Appletastic!

lol these retards that continue to argue for 2 months are pathetic fanboys. makes me ashamed of being a PC fanboy lol.

"religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom"

-Killah Priest

Both company names like Apple and Microsoft use marketing techniques. In this mass market, Apple and Microsoft share identical forms of technology. Thin and light brings necessity. Long life and durability brings economy. Economy brings stress to individuals living upon the lowlands. WE ARE SHEEPLE. WE CANNOT FOLLOW THESE ILLUMINATED PUPPETS. Dark days are coming...

Take the RED PILL...and you will face the truth.

We were and are enslaved by the Machine.