Reefer Gladness

It should be noted that illegal drugs cause problems because they are illegal. Violent cultures have developed around the illegal drugs because they are black market items. This status ensures that the prices stay high and the high prices in turn cause people to be willing to do violent things to posess them or the right to sell the drugs in a certain area. Also, the federal government has no right to pass a law prohibiting posession or use of ANY substance, as the constitution does not address controlled substances. According to the tenth amendment of the constitution, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." If a state or community wishes to prohibit use of a controlled substance, it is their right to do so, not that of the Federal Government. Finally, since when is it the government's responsibility to keep people from doing harmful things to THEMSELVES, especially if they harm nobody else in the process.

See: www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -
-- Albert Einstein

Yeah Obama also said something like
"yeah I inhaled the stuff... that was the point."

As stated above the problem with drugs is that they're illegal.

"Also, the federal government has no right to pass a law prohibiting posession or use of ANY substance, as the constitution does not address controlled substances."

This is inherently incorrect. The constitution was designed as a launching point for all other laws and regulations, not as a list of all possible categories of law. The constitution also doesn't address pornography, for instance, but that doesn't mean lawmakers shouldn't be allowed to punish child pornography offenders.

"Finally, since when is it the government's responsibility to keep people from doing harmful things to THEMSELVES, especially if they harm nobody else in the process."

Another invalid point. You say "especially if they harm nobody else in the process." But what if they do.

If someone decided to fire off a gun on a busy street but hurts no one does that mean it shouldn't be illegal? No because the potential for harm still exists.

The question then becomes how much potential is there for a person who is high to do damage to someone (or something) else? That depends a lot on the drug and on what they are doing but marijuana and driving are probably not a good combination.

The government definitely has a responsibility to limit these types of scenarios.

The initiative taken for the concern is very serious and needs an attention of everyone. This is the concern which exists in the society and needs to be eliminated from the society as soon as possible

jackhollow

foreclosures

Ok rocket boys. What are the required elements of a "crime" under constitutional law? Is it possible for possesion of anything to be a "crime" under constitutional law. The US has been Obamatized since FDR started committing treason in the 1930's. If the Constitutionality of the Controlled Substances Act were ever challenged we would empty our prisons. You really should have to pass a test to vote.

Their is a strong arguement here for corporate responsibility. That something just hurts you does not justify it, because nothing just hurts you. Suicide never just hurts the victim, it also hurts the victim's family, friends, and associates. MJ does not just hurt you. It hurts the child you are not playing with after work because you are baked. It hurts your health, since you are not out doing something constructive with your time (I've never known stoners who didn't spend a lot of time sitting arround doing nothing). It hurts your productivity, it hurts your profitability, and that means it hurts your taxibility. Now I'm paying more than my share of the taxes to keep roads paved. Now I'm (a school teacher) spendning time and resources to fix your emotionally stunted child rather than teach content.

Taxing will not do for MJ. It is, as the article says, a weed. If potheads can grow it and it is legal to have, who would buy it? On an acre I could grow more than an entire NFL team could smoke in a year, so where would the profitibility be to the farmer?

Medical use is another issue. There is medically prescribed cocain (for some heart conditions). I don't think any rational person is for legalizing crack. If there was a medical condition for which MJ was the best medical treatment, and there is no evidence that MJ, particularly smoked, is the best treatment for anything, then that would be a legitimate (and rare) use. The problem with medical MJ is that it has been so thinnly used as a veil for a variety of abuses that its legitimate use in any circumstance is highly questionable. Seriously, ADD treated with pot? There are far better treatments and medications for ADD that have far less destructive consequences on the body.

If you want to make money off of pot, then reduce the prison sentences (costly), greatly increase the fines, and withold government assistance to convicted users for three years per count of possession or consumption. When that stoning conviction is garnishing 10% of your wages, and making you ineligible for unemployment or welfare, until you pay back a $100,000 fine, we will see a great deal less drug use.

It is mind blowing, the high level of non-researched and bogus responses posted on this topic. Lets do a little bit of drug comparison.

Alcohol vs. Marijuana vs. Cigarettes

Two of these are legal while one is not. What characteristics does alcohol have? It impairs brain and bodily function, causes kidney/liver disease, birth defects in pregnant women, mood changes (ex. violence, confidence, anti/depression), and obesity.

What about Cigarettes? Surgeon General warns that smoking causes peripheral vascular disease, emphysema, mouth and throat cancer, clogs your arteries, harms unborn babies, blindness, lung cancer, heart disease, doubles your risk of stroke, is addictive, and is A leading cause of death.

Now for Marijuana. Its affects are similar to alcohol rather then cigarettes. The true difference that sets the three apart is that marijuana can and is used medicinally. Why? you may ask. PRICE is the answer. Marijuana can be retrieved at lower cost and without constant prescriptions.

I personally feel that weed isn't legal due to the non-profitable aspect of it and it is, at this time, a gateway drug to more dangerous drugs.

@Eggman002

"If someone decided to fire off a gun on a busy street but hurts no one does that mean it shouldn't be illegal? No because the potential for harm still exists."

Are you uneducated? That statement makes no point in reference to kdaviper's statement. Due to the fact that GUNS are legal. Firing a gun in public isn't. Just like Alcohol is legal, but drinking and driving isn't. The whole statement you made is counter productive to your defense and you should think more before you respond an attack.

@Oakspar77777

I agree with the majority of what you say. The only issues I see is the medical aspects of marijuana and...
"If you want to make money off of pot, then reduce the prison sentences (costly), greatly increase the fines, and withold government assistance to convicted users for three years per count of possession or consumption. When that stoning conviction is garnishing 10% of your wages, and making you ineligible for unemployment or welfare, until you pay back a $100,000 fine, we will see a great deal less drug use."

The issue with that is it would create innumerable amounts of homeless people or under the table workers. Good idea just a bit of revision and it may work.

@everyone else

Don't just look at the good vs the bad of marijuana. Please just look at the big picture. How does it effect the society in which we live? How is it much different from what is legal and how we use those? How many people acting hypocritical over the whole subject? Let use logic to decide this matter.

Appearently, my comments were misconstrued as "I believe that it is perfectly okay for a person to drive while intoxicated and abandon their family." Also, the person who chooses to get baked instead of playing with his or her child does not care for the child in the first place, and therefore, the child would most likely be neglected weather or not drug use was present. This is also true about the statement about productivity; a person who cares about his or her productivity would not choose to get baked all the time. Alcohol is already perfectly legal (to those over the age of 21) and our workforce isn't made up of drunken slobs, why should someone expect anything different from the legalizaton of cannabis? And the idea of prison sentances for drug offenders is insane. The statistics clearly show that inprisonment does nothing to stop drug users from continuing their drug use once they are free (and do to the availablity of illicit drugs in prisons, if the drug use even stops upon encarceration). Inprisonment only removes a drug offender further from society and makes it harder for the offender to become a normal part of society and obtain gainful employment; with no job to fill their time, the drug user has more time to use drugs and has to use criminal means to support their habbits (for those drugs that are addicting like heroine, cocaine, methamphetamine, nicotine, etc.). And to think that imprisoning a child's parent for extended periods of time for drug use is going to be any better than the parent's death is also a crazy notion. The childeren who fall victems of the penal system are often put in orphanages and foster care (which often leads to abuse) or in the best case scenario are left to live their lives with only one parent (I have seen statistics that show that 95% of drug addicts grow up in single parent housholds). If the child does miraculously make it through all of the adversity, he or she will likely have a deep resentment towards government and authority and end up effervescing with negative criminal energy.

In the argument against legalizing MJ, I have to say I completely disagree with every "scenario" or statement made. " What about the child your not playing with after work because you are baked?". Id say that's a heck of a lot better then " What about the child your abusing after work because your drunk?". Yet , alcohol is completely legal.Another argument I heard against legalizing is that the cartels will target our children since the proposed legal age to buy MJ would be 21. I don't know about you, but when I was under 21 and my friends and I wanted beer, we didn't go look for gang members or go to gang spots to get "the hook up" . There was no corner or alley we would drive to to "score some beer" , there weren't gang members walking around with bottles hidden under their jackets walking up to minors going "you drink?, I got what you need".We would just ask an older sibling, or even a homeless person , just anyone who was over 21 . Now why wouldn't you do the same exact thing for MJ?. It would be as readily available as alcohol."If its just a weed, then anyone can grow it and therefore the government couldn't tax it". Once again , another poor argument against legalizing it. I eat tomatoes, that does not mean I grow my own because I definitely do not. We live in the 21st century,its all about convenience now. In my opinion, It should be legalized. There is just too much good that could come of it and nothing worse then their already is. What it ultimately comes down to is education, educating parents and children. Education brings responsibility and after all, who knows better for yourself? The government , or you?

Everyone in California who has a license to smoke pot also has a license to grow 4 plants at home. The business end however is pulling some counties through the recession.

Legalizing marijuana will definitely increase tax revenues for the state and reduce expenses of putting non-criminals in jail.

Whoever said that there will be no business in legalizing marijuana has NO idea the amount of different products like baked goods would be available, also it would probably be a lot cheaper for farmers to grow in bulk than it would be for people to maintain - growing good herb isn't as easy as you think, it may grow fast but quality requires careful control of many factors.

It would be a whole lot cheaper though, because now the market is paying for the risk taken by suppliers that the DEA will shut them down. Keeping drugs illegal produces so many negative effects without achieving the goal of eliminating drug use - this country has millions of drug users and most have no way of knowing that they are buying a quality product that isn't adulterated. All of the bad aspects of drugs are made exponentially worse by their illegality.

...so if a sober person kills someone, will you outlaw being sober?... i didn't think so... I'm tired of people using it as a defense.

Zyphe24:

"Are you uneducated?" - Is this relevant? The statement you made is counter productive to your defense and you should think more before you respond.

As for my original statement

kdaviper said:

"Finally, since when is it the government's responsibility to keep people from doing harmful things to THEMSELVES, especially if they harm nobody else in the process."

My statement:

"If someone decided to fire off a gun on a busy street but hurts no one does that mean it shouldn't be illegal? No because the potential for harm still exists."

kdaviper was implying that if someone does something that hurts nobody but themselves then it shouldn't be illegal. Granted in the scenario I implied even the person firing the gun is not likely getting hurt but the point is still the same. Just because a single incident of a certain action doesn't hurt anyone doesn't mean the potential isn't there to hurt someone (I will admit however that this was perhaps not the best analogy to use).

I am not arguing for/against legalizing of MJ. I am only saying that you can not base your argument on the idea that MJ abuse only hurts the person abusing it. Just as you can not say that Alcohol abuse only hurts the person abusing it. The same applies for cigarettes, cocaine etc.

You can hurt yourself with ANYTHING, or others... the potential is there! Lets outlaw people doing anything because they're all potentially dangerous!

@bdhoro87:
The latest news I've heard is that the DEA will no longer raid despenseries if they are in compliance with their state law.

@Eggman02:
You are confusing two different things: getting high and driving while intoxicated. Smoking marijuana is not equivalent to somebody discharging a firearm in a populated area. The people who choose to drive while intoxicated would be driving while intoxicated regardless of marijuana's legal status. Your theory would lead to the illegalization of anything that could be used in a malevolent way from duck tape to pencils to words themselves.

To those saying that individuals that indulge in the use of cannabis will do something like DUI or not pay attention to their children I would like to ask from what statistics are you receiving this information and how does this compare to those that don't( I'll bet you won't find a significant difference). If there's a significant difference it's likely do to a precedent like coming from a state of poverty etc. Personally from what I've seen people that use drugs are usually trying to fill a void in their life and start off with no ambition. Some people I've made acquaintance with who later smoked tried to say it made them dumb but having known them I know that it made them no more dull than they already were. Alcohol causes people to get belligerent among many things were as cannabis makes people calm and relaxed. Think about it have you ever heard of someone getting in a fight because they were high, how about breaking or stealing something for there fix(and to R5Willia yes gangsters do sell it but mostly it's people that smoke who grow and I never buy from gangsters and know my dealers personally as I like to stray from anyone associated with rap hip-hop or pop as it's all so very vulgar; I listen to Cat Stephens, The Beatles, Gordon Lightfoot etc {for the record I listened to them before I smoked as their music sends a good message}). Now my opinion (not argument like most of yourselves) is likely biased as I use it. My void was time I had nothing to do with it. I'm doing just fine I'm 18 a senior in high school taking collage courses, online courses, getting my driver's license, and about to work as a bee keeper. So I'm doing plenty as are the friends of mine that happen to smoke. It helps with creativity as has been seen on MRIs in about 60% of people, so considering that females are usually more creative than males this closes the gap a bit. Now I'm not saying that it's beneficial because like alcohol and cigarettes it's a drug, but what I am saying is that how bad it is has been projected to be is blown out of proportion. It is however beneficial to nearly any anyone having trouble with a neurological or gastrointestinal disease. But in any case our economy would benefit greatly from it's legalization. A great way to implement this is with a compromise for the pro-cannabis people ex. that they be administered an IQ test will sober then under the influence to see how it affects aspects of different cognitive abilities. This could expand our knowledge of it and could be used to allow people to use it while off the job. I think this would show a wide range of change rather than one spectrum. I say this because from what I can tell about 30% of poeple get stupefied were as about 20% actually gain some as before creativity but also the ability to concentrate. Perhaps I'm wrong because I base the latter of the two on myself, but I have ADD and OCD; which can be contributing factors to my concentration gain.

On a side note we should make prisoners indentured servants (paying for your crimes with labor), and make them push the wheel of pain=turbine jk but they should do something. Also how come gyms don't have settable resistance turbines then list the output and equivalent lb resistance.

Eggman02 -- If they actually harm someone else, then you don't need a drug law to arrest them, do you?

Same as with alcohol -- which causes far more of those problems than all the illegal drugs combined.

Alcohol accounts for half all road deaths, half of all homicides, half of all domestic abuse and two-thirds of all sexual assaults on children. All of the illegal drugs combined have never come close to those figures.

So, assuming you had an argument, your only argument would be that alcohol should be illegal. But we tried that to address the alcohol problems and it was a complete disaster. It only made all the alcohol problems worse. You can read about it at www.druglibrary.org/prohibitionresults.htm

www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.htm

Sorry forgot to mention that it's not physically addictive (no physical dependence) which is why I'm going to have such an easy time quitting for that job (aside from the boredom, but the $ more than makes up for that). Only thing is a "withdrawal" symptom of weight gain loss of which I attribute to loss of munchies for loss or more stress for gain via cortisol (and yes stress can cause this). As of yet the expert opinion varies as the cause hasn't yet rigorously been looked into yet so my guess is as good as any. Just because someone has to be analytical it's a saying and I'm very much aware that dietitian or some other expert would have a much more educated opinion, and if you were going to mention or are going to mention something merely to bash me rather than actually make a point then grow up and piss off:).

Just for everyone's information, marijuana is already de facto legal in California. There are hundreds of stores openly selling it in Los Angeles alone.

They have regular storefronts in strip malls. They advertise marijuana specials in the newspaper. You can see some of the ads at www.marijuanabusinessnews.com Some of them have neon signs in the window. They sell more than $1 billion worth of marijuana per year and they pay more than $100 million in sales taxes. This has been going on for more than ten years now.

Here is the big news. The sky did not fall. None of the predicted calamities happened. There isn't any marijuana carnage on the roads. There are no hordes of marijuana zombies running through the streets. Teen marijuana use has actually dropped since the law was passed.

Public support for the law that did this is higher now than when the law was passed. Recent polls in California now show a clear majority in favor of legalization on the same terms as alcohol. (Actually, the laws on marijuana right now are looser than the laws on alcohol. For example, teens can get medical recommendations to legally buy marijuana, and you need a state license to open a liquor store, which is not required to open a marijuana outlet.)

Marijuana legalization clearly works. In fact, the cannabis clubs in Oakland were responsible for revitalizing a formerly blighted area of the city just a couple of blocks from City Hall. Oakland recently put in a new tax on the clubs to help out with the fiscal crisis. The new tax was suggested and promoted by the cannabis club owners themselves. That's right -- THEY VOLUNTEERED TO PAY MORE TAXES. How many people do you know who have ever done that? See www.LetUsPayTaxes.com for more info on that.

www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.htm