Tesla Motors Releases Teaser Shots of Model S Sedan

Looks like a 1992 Mazda 929.

And don't ya love the "$7,500 government rebate check" euphemism? As if the government actually generates or has money!

It should read: "...with 7,500 subsidy tax dollars stolen from tax payers and adding to the $9 trillion deficit so rich people can play with a politically correct electric toy."

If Tesla can't make it without my tax dollars, why are they in business? Tesla's just another branch of Obama motors.

"If Tesla can't make it without my tax dollars, why are they in business?"

because oil use has become an environmental and foreign policy nightmare, and it's in our interest as taxpayers to cut it down. helping get alternative fuel vehicles on the road is completely worth whatever small portion of the deficit these rebates will be.

Koblog,

The $7,500 tax credit in question is from the Energy Policy Act of 2005.

Gosh, who was the President in 2005? It must have been Obama and his mighty band of Socialists! He is the only President that could have enacted such a terrible expanse of the federal government! Oh, wait.

Sure, it would be neat if government got out of the way, but it's never gonna happen. Get used to it, it makes no difference who's in the White House.

At least Tesla is doing something fun with your tax dollars and creating a really, really fast and fancy golf cart. I want one!

This American car called Tesla is our way to getting rid of poison acid rain and brown skies over our freeways. This simple means of tranportation has come with great resitance from the OIL BARONS . It has come to save us from ourselves and the energy controlers. The rebate Helps To.

How exactly is it getting rid of poison rain? It is plugged into a wall outlet that may well be generating power via coal. The idea that an electric or alternative fuel car has no energy footprint is silly. There is no free lunch.

as far as the $7,500 "rebate", I can only agree that the Tesla, which is producing some very neat cars, should have to survive on it's own merit and not at the government trough. If it cannot make enough money to survive on it's own, it should fail. Same with GM and Chrysler. Especially since the "rebate" in question really is a way of subsidizing ownership of a very expensive car. I make good money. Why should you help buy me a car?

jhp2. Who said the electric vehicles are completely clean? Even if 100% of the electricity it uses is from coal plants (which wouldn't be the case) its still a lot greener than using an ICE.

"If Tesla can't make it without my tax dollars, why are they in business? Tesla's just another branch of Obama motors."

"as far as the $7,500 "rebate", I can only agree that the Tesla, which is producing some very neat cars, should have to survive on it's own merit "

I love how everyone assumes that the $7500 rebate is some kind of shady deal between the government and Tesla. People, the rebate is for buying *any* electric car made by *any* car company. Tesla had nothing to do with it; they certainly didn't ask for it (I don't think Tesla even existed when the bill passed). Tesla is actually quite free of government bailouts or public funds, at least compared with the other car companies in the US. I personally am impressed with the company's performance thus far.

Battery swap idea is planned to be a rent agreement.
(Just like when you buy a cellphone you make a service agreement.)
So you would not buy the battery when you buy an electric car. That would make electric cars a lot cheaper.

Also there is another battery tech is on the way: Ultra Capacitor. When realized it would reduce the recharge time to a few minutes. And it can be re-used almost limitless because it does not require any chemical reactions unlike regular batteries.

Battery swapping would depend on standardization of the battery,which would be no easy task.I can't see charge stations only carrying batteries to fit Tesla cars.I understand that ultracapacitors main use would be for supplying instant power for passing,etc.

Standardization of the battery is requires only need and later an agreement between the car and battery manufacturing companies that is all.
Electric cars can also easily be made to work multiple type/voltage batteries. (Making regular cars to work w/ multiple type of fuels on the other hand is costly.)

Most people think ultra capacitors can only discharge electricity fast (same as the regular capacitors) but that is wrong! Discharge of ultra-capacitor can be slowed down to levels of regular batteries by using special circuits (just like using a tap to control water flow).
For example there are wind-up flashlights today that you can recharge it in about 30 seconds but use it maybe an hour.

Also current ultra capacitors still needs big improvement to replace regular batteries but it is certainly possible and there are already companies working on it.

The technology is out there to solve all our energy needs without any pollusion, to see what i am talking about all you have to do is look up overunity, HHo games, on YOU TUBE. All we have to do is educate ourselve and not wait for what is presently available and implement the old technologies into our lives. This stuff has been known since the year 1890. The electric car is old technology and the beginning of a greater good. Do some research you will understand. Tesla Nicola is the KEY. Complacency keeps us from advancing and most want others to educate them so they feel they have an opinion. Educate means to teach ones yourself. If you do this you will see the Humanitarian Tesla realy was. The rebate helps to.

"I make good money. Why should you help buy me a car?"

If you don't need help buying the car or an incentive to, don't take the rebate.

This is like people saying we need to raise taxes and then going and finding every way they can to lower their personal taxes.

***Also there is another battery tech is on the way: Ultra Capacitor. When realized it would reduce the recharge time to a few minutes.*****

Ultra-Caps are a promising technology, but you wont be charging your cars storage device in a few minutes at your house anytime soon. Unless of course you have 400 amp 480 volt service running to your house. A battery big enough to propel a decent sized vehicle takes a lot of electricity to recharge (assuming it is at low charge) and this kind of power is not available to most residential users. This will be one of the major growing pains as EV production and use ramps up over the next few decades. It will require stringing a lot of new copper to handle the increased loads and changing their generating profiles as many folks will be charging during 'non-peak' hours for the discount rates available in many areas. I have read about ideas for centralized charging stations, much like current gas stations, that would have high current electricity available for quick charging. I am also curious to see how the manufacturers will deal with storage device heating issues from such rapid recharging, should be interesting.

Dave

Koblog, get over it!

We've blown $2 Trillion dollars an 5000 soldiers in a war based on falsified intel. We've also doled out $700 Billion to wealthy bankers and wall street. We saw our deficit more than double from $4 Tillion + Surplus to $10 Trillion. All of this under BUSH! A lot of folks like you didn't seemto mind that he was running up a record deficit.

We're always gonna pay taxes. I like seeing those tax dollars working towards securing our future in any relevant way and especially by putting American back in the lead with technology and inovation.

Anyone who voted over and over for the last 8years needs to shut the hell up and move out of the way. Please!

Thank you!

"I am also curious to see how the manufacturers will deal with storage device heating issues from such rapid recharging, should be interesting."

Over heating from rapid recharge is only a problem for regular batteries because ions moves fast inside the battery as it recharges. Ultra-capacitors on the other hand would not heat up at all because it does not not use any chemical reactions inside.

*****Concerning heating of EDL capacitors*****

Electrochemical Energy Conversion and Storage Systems Group, Institute for Power Electronics and Electrical Drives (ISEA), RWTH Aachen University, Jaegerstrasse 17–19, D-52066 Aachen, Germany

Received 10 October 2005; revised 15 December 2005; accepted 21 December 2005. Available online 7 February 2006.

Abstract
Thermal management is a key issue concerning lifetime and performance of double layer capacitors and battery technologies. Double layer capacitor modules for hybrid vehicles are subject to heavy duty cycling conditions and therefore significant heat generation occurs. High temperature causes accelerated aging of the double layer capacitors and hence reduced lifetime. To investigate the thermal behavior of double layer capacitors, thermal measurements during charge/discharge cycles were performed. These measurements show that heat generation in double layer capacitors is the superposition of an irreversible Joule heat generation and a reversible heat generation caused by a change in entropy. A mathematical representation of both parts is provided.

That is only one specific type of capacitor that is all!
There are even electrolytic capacitors for a long time that would blow up if you connect it wrong!

So when all of you inbred aberrant wild donkeys from CA have your little play toys who else in going to by this foolishness from Tesla? An even better question would be where is the Lithium going to come from if everyone in the US buys one of these cars (and that just the USA). Has someone located a supply and perfected the off world mining and transportation required to make this work. Children you just never know what they will put into their mouth.

Charging stations could be set up with flywheel storage units that would run up gradually and not overload the grid.They could then charge batteries as fast as they could absorb the power.Existing flywheel storage units run on magnetic bearings in a vacuum,and store power very efficiently.

*****That is only one specific type of capacitor that is all!
There are even electrolytic capacitors for a long time that would blow up if you connect it wrong!*****

Well, it just so happens that edl capacitors are also known as, you guessed it, 'supercapacitors'.
All capacitors show heating to some extent during charging, some worse than others i will grant you, but at the kind of power densities and charge currents that we are talking about, they will almost certainly have to have some type of active cooling system that operates during the recharge cycle. Not saying that this is a insurmountable obstacle, i'm just curious to see how they will address it, thats all.
Electrolytic caps can still blow up if you connect them with the polarities backwards.

Dave

you sound like a bunch of idiots. how much of a government "rebate" do you think it costs to keep a military to "secure" oil. at least 2-3 trillion since 911

and when will you idiots understand that electricity can be produced abundantly by solar panels. and at a cheaper price than oil.

check out nanosolar.com and find out what can be accomplished.

the only problem is big oil is in collusion or is bustin heads to keep their huge profits until the last drop of available oil is burned.

if you think oil is so harmless how about i put my exhaust pipe in your bedroom.

Omgosh no way dude! Tesla just totally ROCKS dude, I like it!

RT
www.online-privacy.es.tc

On the question of government subsidies as a component of public policy:

I lease a 2007 Toyota Camry Hybrid. The car cost $30,710 and the dealer offered ZERO in discounts. (Although there was a government tax credit program at the time, the lease meant I did not qualify.)

I could have bought the same $30k vehicle in an SUV and received $5k in rebates and discounts from the dealer and the car company.

So from my point of view, I bought the hybrid and paid full price, and some other guy bought the gas guzzler and got a big discount. He gets 1/2 the mileage that I do, but he got a lower price to compensate.

I think people who want to drive gas guzzlers are within their rights to do so, but I don't think they should be rewarded for that decision by being allow to avoid the full economic cost. So if the government decides to subsidize people who buy into the new greener technologies, that is completely appropriate. It no different, as a matter of policy, than the many thousands of subsidies and tax credits government at all levels awards big businesses.

So the next time you hear someone talk about subsidies and public policy, think about who really subsidizes who if you buy a "green" car and pay full price and the next guy buys a "gas hog" and gets a big discount.

I saw this car at a car show in Palm Springs this past spring and WOWZZERS!! It's the real deal. It is one of the most beautiful cars I've seen. I see a lot of Jaguar and Porche Panama in the lines. A very upscale passenger compartment with all the bells and whistels. All the powertrain numbers (0-60, braking distance, etc.) are up there with the big boys. If this was a gas vehicle from Mercedes the price would be 10-15 grand more. Now add into the mix electric power with range and you've got a super car. Period.

****and when will you idiots understand that electricity can be produced abundantly by solar panels. and at a cheaper price than oil.*****

Very little electricity in the states is produced with "oil". Coal is #1 by far, followed by natural gas, then nuclear, then hydro, etc. Maybe you should go after "big coal" instead?

It will be a while before solar becomes a major source of power generation in the US. It will take literally hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of pv panels to produce a meaningful amount of electricity. You also have to have a mass storage method for periods when the sun isn't shining, or back your solar field up with those mean old fuel fired plants. Also, transmission is a major factor in electrical costs. Since most solar fields would have to be located in the desert southwest where you have better than 300 days of sun a year, this becomes a significant portion of the cost of solar generation, possibly exceeding the cost of the pv panels and their installation and maintenance. Pursuing green power is a worthwhile goal to be sure, but there are some very real technological issues to overcome, like finding enough material and plant capacity to manufacture pv panels in the kind of quantities necessary.

These technologies also have to be financially viable in the marketplace too. If it costs 'x' per kWh to generate power with gas or coal and it costs 'x*3' to generate it with solar, solar is going to be a long time coming. If you could throw up a field of pv's and generate power and ship it for 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of conventional methods, there would already be pv fields everywhere. Besides, direct solar thermal technologies may beat out pv's before it becomes an issue anyway. As the engineering hurdles are cleared these technologies will begin to come online, but you cant snap your fingers and expect it to happen overnight. So many people are quick to shout "BIG OIL CONSPIRACY LOL!!!!111!!" but the fact is, the engineering obstacles are bigger than any conspiracy.

You idiots foaming at the mouth over rebates, etc. are just to stupid to realize that when I get a rebate, it's MY money coming back. The fact that you're to stupid to figure out that almost all rebates are MUCH less than what the individual payed in isn't someone else's fault, it's yours. Rebates are a genuine way to encourage citizens to do things that are good for both themselves and for YOU to, as you're also affected by pollution, etc. The rebate here has a number of uses. It helps get more electric vehicles on the road, cutting pollution overall, it encourages the production of more vehicles, thus cutting the per-item costs, it encourages others to enter the field, increasing competition, and other good things. It has literally no drawbacks at all. Most anti-rebate nut cases are great supporters of Bush and Obama's wars on the rest of the real world, the least productive use of tax money possible. Wake up and THINK before you post! You really make yourself look like idiots. Perhaps you're not, but now it's up to you to prove it!

I was just reading threw all of these posts because I like to see peoples opinions. But unlike some people who just talk and talk... Maybe before you make statements you should do a little research, I mean you are on the internet this every second. So heres a website and the percentages of how energy is converted in the U.S.A. And yes converted because energy cannot be created or destroyed you dumb politicians!

Just search "energy information administration how is my electricity generated 2008" in a search engine and the first result should be the government site that will have the information. Thanks

I was just reading about the Model S sedan on stuffthatilike.com, that thing is sweet!

http://www.stuffthatilike.com/motors/tesla-model-s-sedan